Crossing over to the loyalists

[Gaweda]

Doh...yes. I didn't even pay the points for them to have jump packs, I forgot to take that out. And forgot to drop the points from the reclusiarch. So I guess I have 265 points to play with.

[SonOfThunder]

I did the SR with DC dread and footslogger DC last saturday, and I didn't like it, for 3 reasons:

 

Reason 1: I made the reserves roll turn 2, but if I hadn't that's 700ish points contributing nothing. Sucks specially for a unit like the DC that can't score, all they can do is kill. The more turns they aren't killing, the more turns the points are wasted.

 

Reason 2: The turn The Raven came in I was too worried :)...If for any reason the raven can't land next turn, those powerful cc units are even more wasted. If it crashes it's a disaster. I like to be able to play my units to make them count, but not being too worried about losing them. I hate knowing that so many points can die with a couple good/bad rolls.

 

Reason 3: Once the cc goodness left the raven, they murdered what they had close...and that was it, they were too far away to do anything else. I guess I'm used to the jump packs, but footsloggers are so frustrating...This depends a lot on how the game is going and where you chose to deploy, obviously, but normally the best spots are the best defended, and that means surviving that crucial turn before disembarking is more difficult. If you want to keep using the raven to move them around, it needs to stay hovering, and it's very vulnerable.

 

All in all I'd recommend, since you have the points, to buy a LR for the DC and keep the dread in the raven. The DC dread is ultra scoring, so if it comes in too late to impact the game, at least it can get an objective. That makes the raven a less juicy target, and it means bad reserve rolls won't cost you the game. Another option would be to get a second raven, the DC in one and the dread in the other. 2 flyers, 2 targets, can go for 2 different parts of the battle. 

 

Also, the VV sergeant comes with a power sword, so the hammer is not really cheaper, you're just paying the difference. If you buy the hammer for one of the other guys it stays hidden, and the sergeant keeps his power sword, which most likely will work better in challenges. What I've done in the past with VVs is spread everything, no model gets 2 upgrades. The shield goes to mr bullet catcher in the front, sergeant keeps sword and that's it, hammer is on his own (double handed hammer in GK box or DC box look brutal, much better than single-handed imo :))

 

Your assault squads are already paying for the veteran sergeant, it feels like a waste to not give them an upgrade like sword or axe, or even fist. ASM squads underperform terribly in cc, usually it's the sergeant who does most of the killing, while the rest soak wounds. For me it's always been worth it. But I play against power armor mostly, I guess against more squishy targets you won't miss the improved AP.

 

Last, I've been dropping a lonely furioso for a while now and he underperforms regularly. I'm rather new, so my advice might not be totally sound, but I'd say if you put the DC dread in a pod instead of the raven, that gives you the 3 pods you need to drop 2 dreads turn 1. I'd probably deploy the librarian so that it can help from the get go, and drop his pod empty on an objective later in the game. Another option to get the 3rd pod without including another unit would be to buy it as dedicated transport for the DC, and drop it empty. That way both furiosos will be there turn 1.

 

That was quite the post huh :D...hope you find something useful there!

 

PS: By all means, do try the raven with DC and dread in it, at least once. Otherwise you'll always think about what it could've been :D

[Shaezus]

If you're going to be up against armies with strong interceptor units or with lots of S7+ shots, forget the idea of putting the DC in a raven. Then again it may be worth trying just so you can experience the feeling of losing so much in one go to a single penetrating hit or 3 glances :D

 

But if your opposition is not strong in these areas, DC in a raven will rock and will win you battles.

 

Personally if you want to use DC as a key instrument in your assault plans, a land raider is the safer bet. It is by no means indestructible but at least you won't lose hundreds of points worth of stuff if it gets brewed up.

[Gaweda]

One of the reasons I'm not sold on the land raider is the eldar lance weapons that I go up against. They just reduce it to 12 anyway, and I'd rather they be shooting snap shots at a flier than full BS at a raider. Its a high risk high reward strategy I'm assuming. My chaos raider gets popped more often than my heldrake.

[Tabgoi]

Don't worry about the "For the Emperor" too much.  I mean, sure its fun to yell at people as you charge a 20 man DC unit with a reclusiarch and four power fists at something your opponent really wants to live.  Thus far my opponent's responses have been "Don't even bother to roll, my 3+ Invul is useless in this situation."  I often get yelled at for this baby:

 

Me: What do you do when life gives you lemmons?

Them: You ma

Me: Blood for the Blood God!!!

Them: You play Blood Angels, your CSM are gathering dust over in the corner.

Me (louder this time): Blood for the Blood Angel!!!

 

I find people tend to get off their game when they think you may not be right in the head.  Also, I like the idea of locator beacons on the Drop Pods with the VV, that is nasty.  I play against Eldar a lot and I have not had too much trouble running a Land Radier against them.  Normally it goes completely unmolested.  Of course normally my opponent is trying to dislodge the ten man sternguard unit I tend to drop near their Wraith lords, wraith knights, or other suitably high priced guys.  Best entrance my Sternguard have ever made saw a ten man unit in combat squad with two combi meltas wipe a Wraith Knight and a fire prism on their turn one drop.  Next turn both his wraith lords went away and that entire side of the table was mine.  They may have been serious bitching on the other side of the table...

[Red-beard]

One of the reasons I'm not sold on the land raider is the eldar lance weapons that I go up against. They just reduce it to 12 anyway, and I'd rather they be shooting snap shots at a flier than full BS at a raider. Its a high risk high reward strategy I'm assuming. My chaos raider gets popped more often than my heldrake.

 

Using the LR as a dedicated transport for the DC makes the LR super-scoring. I love having an AV14 4HP monster rolling around that can secure objectives. Using a SR doesn't allow you to gain that extra scoring option from a troop transport.

[Tabgoi]

Don't forget that if the DC are not in a transport you have very little control over where they go, and without a power fist they are vulnerable to getting tied up with a dreadnought they cannot hurt.

[Quixus]

Don't forget that if the DC are not in a transport you have very little control over where they go,

That was 5th edition. the Rage rule has since changed. DC are as controllable as any other unit in 6th and 7th edition.

[SonOfThunder]

My DC have gotten stuck with hellbrutes and it sucks. Do get them a fist or a hammer.

[Quixus]

Hidden fists or hammers are always good. DC can do it as can VV.

[Shaezus]

It's a unique feeling to have that unit which, whatever you do with it, you don't need to worry about the consequences because after all they are already lost. And they have something of a unique reputation because of this, so by simply having death company in your list your oppo has always got one wary eye on them. Five barebone DC often have a psychological effect far greater than their actual capability, so they're always worth those 100 points IMHO.

[Gaweda]

Man, so many options, it's kinda making my brain hurt. Has anyone tried just using Astorath the Grim with a silly amount of death company? It's almost tempting...

 

Edit: For example:

 

Astorath the Grim – 220

9 Death Company & Lemartes w/ Drop Pod – 365

9 Death Company (1 Thunder Hammer) w/ Drop Pod – 265 

10 Death Company (1 Thunder Hammer) w/ Drop Pod – 265

Death Company Dreadnought w/ Drop Pod – 160

Death Company Dreadnought w/ Drop Pod – 160

Death Company Dreadnought w/ Drop Pod – 160

Total Points: 1495

 

This list sounds like a lot of fun playing with. Maybe not hugely competitive, but fun for sure.

[Red-beard]

Man, so many options, it's kinda making my brain hurt. Has anyone tried just using Astorath the Grim with a silly amount of death company? It's almost tempting...

 

Edit: For example:

 

Astorath the Grim – 220

9 Death Company & Lemartes w/ Drop Pod – 365

9 Death Company (1 Thunder Hammer) w/ Drop Pod – 265 

10 Death Company (1 Thunder Hammer) w/ Drop Pod – 265

Death Company Dreadnought w/ Drop Pod – 160

Death Company Dreadnought w/ Drop Pod – 160

Death Company Dreadnought w/ Drop Pod – 160

Total Points: 1495

 

This list sounds like a lot of fun playing with. Maybe not hugely competitive, but fun for sure.

 

I have not tried it, but have been considering it as a viable option. In 7E, all those DC dreads are objective secured scoring as are all the DC dedicated transports. I think DC spam lists are much better now than they were in 6E. 

[Father Mapple]

Lemartes and Astaroth can't go in the drop pod because of his jump pack. For around 350 points, you can get 5 Death Co with Jump packs, a fist/2 power weapons, and Lemartes. Then, 3 drop pods will still come down turn 1 (since you round up, half of 5 is 3) and then the jumpers. If you put Astorath with the jumpers instead of Lemartes, and use a Reclusiarch as the 10th person in one of the pods, the points work out similarly with a few to spare.

 

If you Descent of Angels Astaroth and the Jump pack Death Co, place them BEHIND one of the drop pods or Death Co Dreads, giving them cover and the enemy bad decisions - do they take out the Death Dread which can charge this turn, or go for the somewhat squishier infantry unit with cover behind them. If you put some points in to locator beacons on the drop pods, then you can make sure the angles work out right for cover and there's no mishaps. I commonly deep strike Death Co into terrain since they get armor save AND feel no pain, meaning they almost never die to dangerous terrain tests.

[Gaweda]

Well, I've been enjoying having a new baby (a future sister of battle I'm sure), along with painting my Furioso Librarian dreadnought, and I think that maybe I have come up with a final list. Your feedback has all been so helpful, and is once again very welcome. I'm learning a lot from you!

 

Reclusiarch - 130

Assault Squad (10) (2x meltaguns, jumpacks, sergeant with axe) - 225

Death Company (9) (1x Thunder Hammer) - 210

Vanguard Veterans (5) (1x Thunder Hammer) - 195

Furioso Librarian Dreadnought w/ Drop Pod (Locator Beacon) - 220

Furioso Dreadnought (Frag Cannon) w/ Drop Pod - 160

Death Company Dreadnought (Blood Talons) w/ Drop Pod - 160

Storm Raven - 200

 

Total: 1500

 

The main reasons I went with a Storm Raven over a Land Raider are; 1) Points difference, and 2) My opponents do not cope well with fliers. I did decide not to put all my eggs in one basket, splitting the Death Company and DC Dread into a Drop Pod and Storm Raven, and I can also make it vice versa.

 

What do you guys think?

[Red-beard]

It's a solid list. 

 

As a tweak, you might consider downgrading your VV TH to a PF. The only thing the TH gets you over a PF is the concussive rule which likely won't make much difference. With the extra 5 points you can give another member of the squad melta bombs, which could be the difference between exploding a vehicle in round 1 versus not exploding it.

[knife&fork]

Well, I've been enjoying having a new baby (a future sister of battle I'm sure), along with painting my Furioso Librarian dreadnought, and I think that maybe I have come up with a final list. Your feedback has all been so helpful, and is once again very welcome. I'm learning a lot from you!

 

Reclusiarch - 130

Assault Squad (10) (2x meltaguns, jumpacks, sergeant with axe) - 225

Death Company (9) (1x Thunder Hammer) - 210

Vanguard Veterans (5) (1x Thunder Hammer) - 195

Furioso Librarian Dreadnought w/ Drop Pod (Locator Beacon) - 220

Furioso Dreadnought (Frag Cannon) w/ Drop Pod - 160

Death Company Dreadnought (Blood Talons) w/ Drop Pod - 160

Storm Raven - 200

 

Total: 1500

 

The main reasons I went with a Storm Raven over a Land Raider are; 1) Points difference, and 2) My opponents do not cope well with fliers. I did decide not to put all my eggs in one basket, splitting the Death Company and DC Dread into a Drop Pod and Storm Raven, and I can also make it vice versa.

 

What do you guys think?

 

Frag cannon dread is something I would more often use for the alpha strike compared to the furioso librarian. It makes more sense to have thr locator beacon on the fragioso pod. 

[Quixus]

Change the thunderhammers to power fists and use the points to get locator beacons on both 1st turn pods.

[Gaweda]

I see the logic in switching the thunder hammers to power fists, but lordy lord the hammers just look awesome. I'll do my best to convince myself to make the switch before assembling them. On another note, you guys have helped sway me to put aside the curse of Chaos once and for all. Yes, I'm actually turning my back on the dark gods and selling up that army so that I can fully pledge my allegiance to the Emperor and Sanguinius. I never thought I'd see the day!

[Quixus]

The Emperor be praised, another soul redeemed from the clutches of evil. No, wait, there is no redemption in 40K. You just replace one damnation with another one.

 

More seriously, magnetize the hammers and fists. That way you have both options. If you have easygoing opponents you might be allowed to play the hammers as fists.

[Red-beard]

Here's a second vote for magnetizing. I have two THs glued on my DC squad and, in those lists where I need to free up 5-10 points, I often regret not being able to downgrade to PFs.

[Dotkingz]

List looks good for someone just coming into the chapter. Witch btw welcome. As for the dreads just wanted to know how you meant to deliver these guys? Drop pods are great way to get them into Flamer and melta range

[Gaweda]

Thanks for the welcome. Yeah, I use three drop pods to get the dreads into peoples faces. I've had 4 games with the Blood Angels now, and I must say they have been quite the challenge compared to my old Chaos army. I've had to really figure out that I can't just charge in recklessly and expect to do as good as I did with Khorne and Nurgle on my side.

 

First game was against the Tau, and oh the pain. Opponent had a buff commander with a riptide, and the riptide had interceptor and skyfire. Sooo, I don't imagine I have to tell you what happened to my Stormraven the minute it came on the board...uhhh. That game ended with just 4 assault marines left on the board, but running away. However, it taught me a lot. (Just to rub insult to injury, that was against a friend of mine using my own Tau army and army list).

 

Second game was against Dark Angels, which was a much closer, bloody battle. However, I just didn't have much answer to the Deathwing Knights. Also, rapid fire bolters just hurt so badly with overwatch. I killed more that time, but still ended the game with just my librarian dread left on the board.

 

Third game was a 2 v 2, Blood Angels and Dark Angels vs Necron and Eldar. It was real close, but again, I ended the game with very little.

 

Fourth game was a smaller 1000 pts game versus Tyrannids played last night, and finally, glorious victory to the Blood Angels! Turn five I tabled him. Clearly the Ultramarines should have asked the Blood Angels for help at the battle for Macragge.

 

I have to say, I'm thoroughly enjoying this army. It's such a challenge for me to play and unlearn my Chaos (and Tau) tactics, but I get such satisfaction watching my Death Company & Reclusiarch annihilate whatever I throw them at. Plus the Death Company Dread taking out a Carnifex in one swipe. Just glorious. I'm starting to feel the need for a second Storm Raven though...not sure how I'd fit it in yet, but (other than that damned riptide) it has been an excellent delivery system.

[Bukimimaru]

I have a second Storm Raven, but I never ever have the points spare to actually use it.

Unlike many Blood Angel players I prefer to go heavy on the vehicles rather than jump packs, so for the most part my troop slots are taken up by 5 man squads of Assualt marines (minus jump packs) zipping around in super cheap, super fast, super scoring Razorbacks with an asortment of heavy Bolters, Las cannons and Plasmaguns.

Then after I've paid out for my Auto - pred, 2 Baal Preds and 2 Vindicators, I almost never have points spare to go into a second Raven.

 

Also, I can't reccoment Brother Cobulo highly enough. A 3+ save follwoed by a 2+ FNP roll is compeltly nuts. I've rarley had a game where he hasnt tanked a full armys worth of shooting all by himself and still come out smiling. Keep him awat from AP2 weapons and he'll make you a proud and victorious commander.

I have a second Storm Raven, but I never ever have the points spare to actually use it.

 

Unlike many Blood Angel players I prefer to go heavy on the vehicles rather than jump packs, so for the most part my troop slots are taken up by 5 man squads of Assault marines (minus jump packs) zipping around in super cheap, super fast, super scoring Razorbacks with an assortment of heavy Bolters, Las cannons and Plasmaguns.

 

Then after I've paid out for my Auto - Pred, 2 Baal Preds and 2 Vindicators, I almost never have points spare to go into a second Raven.

 

 

 

Also, I can't recommend Brother Cobulo highly enough. A 3+ save followed by a 2+ FNP roll is compactly nuts. I've rarely had a game where he hasn’t tanked a full army’s worth of shooting all by himself and still come out smiling. Keep him away from AP2 weapons and he'll make you a proud and victorious commander.

 

[Gaweda]

So...I have a land raider. And a box of assault terminators. I can't decide - thunder hammers/storm shields or lightning claws, or mix?