2000 Point Salamander Legion List

[Vulkans Finest]

2000 point salamander legion list

Covenant of fire rite of war

 

HQ - Legion praetorian with master-crafted thunder hammer, mantle of the elder drake DSS, iron halo and digital lasers - 190

 

Elites - legion mortis dreadnought with two twin-linked auto cannons - 135

Elites - 5 firedrakes 5 with PF/DSS and sarge with master-crafted TH and DSS inside spartan assault tank with armoured ceramite and auxiliary drive - 650

 

Troops - 10 man legion tactical squad with extra combat weapons (chainswords) and sergeant with master crafted combi-flamer in rhino - 220

Troops - 10 man legion tactical squad with extra combat weapons (chainswords) and sergeant with master crafted combi-flamer in rhino - 220

Troops - Legion support squad with 4 meltas in rhino – 195

Troops - 5 Pyroclasts - 160

Troops - 5 Pyroclasts - 160

 

Dedicated Transports – Rhino - 35

Dedicated Transports – Rhino - 35

 

The plan with this list is very simple. A giant armoured assault to get in close to the enemy to unleash the close ranged fire I have. The dreadnought will stay back to provide some interceptor anti-air. I have checked and you can buy rhinos by themselves. It just means the pyroclasts can't start inside them. Let me know what you think.

[Vulkans Finest]

Would I be able to get some feedback please? Is the list any good?

[Slips]

Ok! lets do this :

 

First up, 5 man Melta team. With the prevalence of Armored Ceramite on vehicles throughout 30k, I honestly double they'll be able to make their points back as a tank buster unit - Seeing as they lose the extra d6 for penetration rolls.

 

And since you seem to be taking multiple Minimum sizes squads you're really paying a hefty premium for them. I can see what your going for but know that in 30k size does matter since those 2 10 man tac squads are MORE EXPENSIVE than a single 20 man by 50 points before upgrades. That's 5 more marines/ upgrades you could've squeezed in somewhere throughout the list.

 

Now unless I'm mistaken, Pyroclasts aren't classified as Bulky and would therefore be capable of fitting 10 in a rhino. This will save you points in that your not paying an upfront premium for 2 squads nor do you have to pay for another extra rhino.

 

Have you though about maybe using 2 15 man Tac squads (as minimum troops) with only a vexilla to reroll morale, no upgrades, and use them as a mid-backfield gunline (all the while costing only 420 points for 30 marines instead of 440 for 20 marines - that's 2pts per additional marine!) and cutting the melta squad and instead perhaps taking a 10 man strong Heavy Tac Support squad with Heavy Flamers in a Rhino to support the Pyroclasts and Terminators?

 

Also a bog standard mortis-dread is easily and handily outclassed by a Contemptor-Mortis, so consider that.

 

 

 

So to reiterate, I'd recommend a list like this :

 

HQ:

 -Preator : same as you've made 190pts.

 

Elites :

 -Firedrakes : Same as yours 655pts (according to battlescribe, I think you've under costed something by 5 points.)

 -Legion Mortis Dreadnought : same 135pts.

 

Troops:

 -Legion Tactical Squad: 5 more marines, Legion Vexilla 210pts

 -Legion Tactical Squad: 5 more marines, Legion Vexilla 210pts

 -Pyroclasts: 5 more marines 285pts (35pts less than 2 separate squads, the cost of a rhino) BS has probably not been updated yet, but these are still listed as elites even with CoF

 

Heavy Support:

 -Legion Heavy Support Squad: 5 more marines, Heavy Flamers (free), Rhino 270 pts 

 

Dedicated Transport :

 -Rhino: 35pts

 

Total 1990 points, you now have 15 more bodies on the table, and enough points to perhaps give the pyroclast warder a Pfist or Pweapon. Coincidentally, you could take the 2 min tac squads down to barebones 10 man squads with vexillas for a total of 320pts which would give you 110 points spare to spend on anything else you'd want.

 

While it does kinda sour your idea of an armored assault, I think it still gives you a decent enough mass of a Flamer Wall but sadly removes some of your tactical flexibility in that you have less squads but in bigger numbers. Also STRONGLY consider Melta Bombs, they still work just fine.

[Triacom]

Slipstreams, I'm not sure that works too well for this kind of list for 2 big reasons:

 

1: One Rhino Threat:  Unless you are playing a campaign, nearly everybody is going to have some AT, and when there's only one vehicle that's a threat (because the Pyroclasts won't be ably to do anything with their Rhino until at least turn 2) you can guess where nearly all of the guns are going to be pointing.  Whatever wants to use that Rhino isn't going to be able to, the Pyroclasts will get shot out of it turn 1, or they won't even be able to get in it in the first place.  Normally the Mortis would be a small distraction, but with only Autocannons he's not going to be scaring any tanks, there is a Spartan but there's plenty that is a very good idea to take and that cannot hurt a Spartan at all while absolutely killing Rhino's, like Sicaran's for example (you cannot count on rending so I did not include it as a factor), if your opponent has even one of those, the Rhino's aren't going to be able to deliver any troops where they need to go because bare Sicaran's excel at killing them, and that's just one example, anything with autocannons is going to gun those Rhino's down.

 

2: Vulnerable Footslogging:  So that list has the majority of the troops footslogging it across the table, but while they're not likely to run, they are going to get gunned down hard, and that has no apothecaries, they are vital for footslogging lists because your opponent can unleash an unholy amount of firepower on your troops in 30K to stop them from getting anywhere, your vexilia standards are a good idea for not running away, but they won't stop you from dying, and as you marines you have to make those tests more frequently.

 

Paying a premium for smaller squads isn't always a bad thing, it just means you're paying to stay mobile, personally I like to run two small tactical squads in Rhino's to cover the compulsory troops, then beef up everything else and put them in Rhino's, which is what Vulkans Finest was doing.  I agree that combining the Pyroclasts is a good idea, I agree that the melta support squad is a bad idea, I agree with the Contemptor Mortis over the regular one, but everything else I can't agree with for the above reasons.

[Triacom]

So Vulkans Finest, your list looks okay, I'm mostly worried that you won't have the power to stay in combat once you reach it though, aside from the Praetor and Firedrakes (who look like they'll be travelling together) you don't have any power weapons, at all, normally this isn't an issue if you can drop loads of templates or fury of the legion on the enemy before getting charged (or in some cases, charging), but 5 Pyroclasts are going to get whipped when the enemy strikes at the same initiative, and might have AP2 weapons of their own (my Deathguard for example always have scythes in their squads).  Even if the enemy doesn't have AP2 power weapons, the regular attacks they'll hit back with will wreck the squad, since you'll almost always be outnumbered, the enemy will usually have a CCW and Pistol, and you're stuck with just one attack on the regular troops.  Even if you charge that just puts you on the same playing field as them, having the same number of attacks, and if they charge you, you won't have enough overwatch to take them out (squad sizes can get very large and with 3+ saves and possibly an apothecary 5 flamers aren't too bad to charge) meaning you're really screwed as all combat marines you'll be fighting will have 3 attacks each vs your 1, and they have the same stats as you (though a slightly worse save, the extra attacks more than make up for it).

 

Long Pyroclast story short, upgrading to more Pyroclasts helps a lot of these problems, you get a lot more overwatch, you'll have more attacks (and with the new overwatch, should beat any regular infantry who charge you barring terminators) and buying a power weapon for the Warden solves the last issue, if you charge he can carve through MEQ's no problem with three attacks.

 

I'd ditch the melta squad entirely, you can get better AT with Rapier batteries, or another Mortis Dreadnought, you seem to be lacking in heavy AT but only slightly, your Spartan can do a great job at killing enemy tanks, but what happens if you come across an enemy spartan with a flare shield for example?  If there's nobody in your area with one of those, you can ignore that, and go for the earlier AT I mentioned, or another Tactical/Pyroclast squad with the points you save from combining the first (I'd recommend splitting the models between the two), and getting rid of the melta's, since another Pyroclast is going to help out more than the melta's.

[Slips]

Yeah I see your points and they were concerns when I came up with the list. I mostly threw it out there as an idea to be improved upon or rejected outright - which you did for the right reasons. But with the Core Idea being : Flamers in your face + armored assault, He'd pretty much be playing a near Death Guard equivalent list (imo).

 

As for the my harping on the minimum squads, it's mostly an attempt to being as cost effective as possible. 

 

In all honesty, I'd rather run the 10 Pyroclasts in a Land Raider that way they do start in a tough nut to crack, but where do you get the points without the list suffering?

An Idea would be to roll the Fire Drakes in a LR Phobos and cutting the Pyroclasts down to 9 and having the Preator Roll with them instead, inside of a Land Raider.

Also have the Firedrakes forgo the Power Fists and bring the Tac Squads down to 10 as well to loosen up some points throughout the list.

 

If anything, I'd keep the original list he came up with, but change a few things:
-Pyroclasts squads to Fuse.

-Change Tac Support to Heavy Support with Heavy Flamers

-Maybe Cut the Extra CC weapons and Combi-Flamer on the Sarge in the Tac squads and instead get vexilla + Art Arm + Pweapon.

-Turn Spartan into a Phobos with Armored Ceramite

-If enough points can be freed up, Turn Pyroclasts into a 9 man, join Preator, Land Raider Phobos.

 

I'm really having a hard time wrapping my head around this list and how to make it better :X

 

Also, Pyroclasts double as melta squads because of the firing modes of their Flamers.

[Triacom]

When making those points, I actually discarding a third one, that one being: This list is Death Guard Lite, because I had that concern too, but Pyroclast flamers are different enough to make me recommend them, even though they do more or less the same job.

 

Personally I'd keep the extra CCW, drop the master-crafted combi-flamers and grab a master-crafted power weapon for most squads instead, with tactical squads you want to use fury of the legion, which means you can't fire the flamer variant the next turn anyway, and it doesn't help that much on its own for overwatch, I'd recommend the flamer for a fluffy list, but this isn't one.

 

I'd recommend deleting the melta squad, then adding 4 more pyroclasts and a power weapon to one of the pyroclast squads, and 3 more pyroclasts with a power weapon to the other, that should have them break almost even, and give them more staying power in a fight, OR fusing the two pyroclast squads into one, getting more AT like Rapier batteries, another Mortis (either version), or Sicaran with Lascannons, then using the rest to spread whatever upgrades you can throughout the existing squads, Artificer Armour for the Sargents and upgrading the Mortis to a Contemptor for example.

[Vulkans Finest]

Thanks everyone for the reply's but I must say the "this isn't a fluffy list" comment really has bugged me. How is this not a fluffy list? Everyone has flamer or hammer and I am using their rite of war, what is there in this list that is non-salamander?

With that aside I would like to say that I disagree with giving pyroclasts ccw's and merging them into one squad. I like to keep them split so I can take down more than 1 unit at a time.

Also about the whole dropping the combi-flamer for sarge. You know that when I disembark I can't use FOT? That is why the flamer is there, so I can still do some damage and then next turn if I can I use FOT.

I completely agree with dropping the melta squad for rapier batteries. And will do so, and trying to upgrade the dread, but otherwise the list is staying as it is.

[Triacom]

I said this isn't a fluffy list because you didn't say it you were building one, that was the only reason, it made me think you wanted to play to the armies strengths without making a fluffy list, see, in fluffy lists people will usually do things that won't necessarily help them but will keep the army feeling like a unique army, for example, Justaerin Terminators and Phoenix Guard are both HORRIBLY overcosted, nobody would ever take them if they want a semi-competitive list, but if you want your army looking and feeling like the Sons of Horus or Emperor's Children armies, you might take them.

 

I guess you could potentially kill two units with pyroclasts, though I wouldn't bet on it myself, it seems a bit too flimsy to me but it's your call.

[Vulkans Finest]

I said this isn't a fluffy list because you didn't say it you were building one, that was the only reason, it made me think you wanted to play to the armies strengths without making a fluffy list, see, in fluffy lists people will usually do things that won't necessarily help them but will keep the army feeling like a unique army, for example, Justaerin Terminators and Phoenix Guard are both HORRIBLY overcosted, nobody would ever take them if they want a semi-competitive list, but if you want your army looking and feeling like the Sons of Horus or Emperor's Children armies, you might take them.

 

I guess you could potentially kill two units with pyroclasts, though I wouldn't bet on it myself, it seems a bit too flimsy to me but it's your call.

I have tried making it a fluffy list by using all the salamander units, their rite of war and then giving them all flamer like weapons. I know the list is made to be strong, but I see no reason of as to why it can't be strong and fluffy.

[Triacom]

There isn't any reason why it can't be strong and fluffy, saying whether or not it is going to be fluffy just changes the advice people will give.

 

In case you're wondering, your list is fluffy, and I should have been clearer in my other comment, I should have made it clearer that I thought you weren't trying to make a strictly fluffy list.