3K Imperial Fists

[Slips]

Alright, so, I've been wandering around the HH Army List Subforum and giving out advice. Whether or not it good advice is another matter but hey we're all here to learn

To that end, It's time to flip the tables and have me ask for YOUR advice.

The list is as follows :

RoW : Pride of the Legion. Taken mostly so I can have Termie troops and free up an Elite Slot.

HQ:

-Sigismund : 230pts (to be attached to the Templar Squad)

-Consul - Primus Medicae : Tartaros TDA, Solarite Power Gauntlet, Teleportation Transponder, Volkie Charger 147pts (to be attached to the Terminator Squad)

Troops:

-Legion Tactical Squad x20 : Vexilla, Nuncio-Vox 270pts

-Legion Tactical Squad x20 : Vexilla, Nuncio-Vox 270pts

-Legion Terminator Squad x5 : Chainfist, Power Fist, 5x Vigil Pattern Storm Shield, Teleportation Transponder, Sgt with Thunderhammer 290pts

-Templar Brethren x7 : Vexilla, Nuncio-Vox, Champ with Solarite Power Gauntlet, Land Raider Phobos with Armored Ceramite 525pts

Elites:

-Legion Apothecary x1 : Artificer Armor, Augury Scanner 60pts (will roll with Siggy and the Templar - AA mostly to have 2+ like the rest of the boys hes with)

-Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought : 2 Twin-Linked Lascannons 185pts

-Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought : 2 Twin-Linked Autocannons 165pts

-Legion Rapier Weapons Battery x2 : Graviton Cannon x2 150pts.

Heavy Support:

-Legion Predators x3 : Armoured Ceramite, Dozer Blades, Lascannons Sponsons, Machine Spirit (on all 3) 495pts

-Legion Sicarian Battle Tank : Armoured Ceramite, Auxiliary Drive, Lascannons 205pts

Total is 2992 Points

Now, granted this is a 3k list and I have no Lords Of War, I may shave off a lot of stuff and bring it down to 2.5k If i start hitting a wall.

Notes :

-Sol Gloves are AP1 so should make good vehicle Busters + having 1 Pfist and 1 Cfist means if my Termies can get there they can bring the pain.

-Unless I miscalculated, I have 10 Lascannon shots + 2 Grav Cannon Batteries, I think that should be enough for any armor I might encounter no?

- I realize that once my Terminators TP in, they'll be stuck footslogging it. Which is why I opted to give them Vigil Shields and non-Cataphractii armor so that they have a 3++ invuln. and the ability to Run. Which is why I gave my 3 other troops choices Nunci-Voxii so that, depending on the Situation I can send in the Terminators to help out the Blobs or the Templars.

-Primus Medicae in TDA is for FNP terminators, whats not to love? Also gives me another Sol Glove

-Templar squad + Siggy + Apothecary is a very Hardcore version of All Your Eggs in the Same Basket but I think they can do work, especially with the prevalence of large Blob Squads in 30k.

- If I decide to send the Terminators to aid the Above, that'll literally be ~1/3 of my list in points in roughly the same area...RNGesus have mercy on my soul/dice

Edit : made the Tac Squad entries separate for clarity.

[Phalanx Warder]

I don't have my book in front of me (its still at Forge World), but at 3k you are going to have a tough time without a LoW. At 3k my list will probably have one of the following Fellblade, Glaive or a Falchion and at least 3 or 4, 20 man squads. You currently have 35 (39 if you count the rapier crews) Boots on the ground and I think that you will have a tough time keeping any of those 35 men alive a full 6 turns. I have found terminators in 30k to be quite under whelming but with our Storm Shields we should do better than most. Looking at your list and if I had to fight it, I would just play the troop denial game and then focus on your tanks/contemptors once I killed off your ability to score.

 

sorry that this is not as in depth as the one you gave my 1.5k list, as far as the Heresy I haven't played above that point limit and I can tell you that infantry model's don't last that long.

[Slips]

Thats alright brother, and you did validate one of my core worries. In all honesty, I might just scrap the Predators and bring the list down to 2.5k thus negating the likelihood of LoW Super Heavies barring some of the "cheaper" Primarchs.

 

I'll also edit the List a bit since I have 2 x20 man Tactical Squads. I think I didn't make that clear enough since both were Carbon Copies and I was suddenly too lazy to Hit Ctrl-C Ctrl-V :P

In all, I'd have 55 bodies, not counting the Rapiers.

 

Concerning LoW SH's its the Reason why I tried to kit out 5 terminators to being as durable as possible - Primus Medicae for FNP + His own Storm Shield + 5 Terminators all having FNP + Storm Shield (3++) While having decent enough (in my eyes) anti armor response - Sol Glove, Pfist, CFist + TH should, if they get close enough to charge, Give those bigger tanks a hard enough time. You're still right non the less about them in 3k games. 

[Triacom]

I'm not too sure how to handle Primarch's with this list, I play Death Guard and I've always countered their Primarch's with Mortarion (with Endurance on him and somebody backing him with Rad Grenades he can slaughter most of them no problem), but just looking at it makes it looks like you should be able to slow most Primarch's with the Graviton Cannons (Corax and Mortarion are the only ones I can think of that'll be unaffected), then wear them down with all of those autocannons you've got, they're going to start failing saves, and if you get them in combat with the terminator squad you could probably tarpit them out of most of the game, if not the entire thing.

 

Those vehicle LoW's aren't too bad to deal with so long as you can keep them pinned down with Sicaran Venator's (only snapshotting with their weapons is a dream come true), and if you do go with Venator's for vehicle hunting you can make the points up by cutting down on the predators.

If you swap your predators for 2 Sicaran Venator's with Lascannon Sponsons, and Drop the one Las-Mortis down to an Autocannon-Mortis (which does the job just fine anyway) you'll have even better tank crushers, as well as vehicles capable of stun-locking Spartans and Superheavies (I hope your opponent loves snap shots), you'll also have the points required to buy 2 more Apothecaries, and I'd always recommend Apothecaries in squads too big to have a reasonable transport, and your Sicaran Venator's can do Primarch hunting in a pinch, since all of their shots will ignore the armour save of the Primarch, and half of them only have a 4+ Invulnerable save.

 

All in all this should leave you with 13 points to spare.

 

Notes

-I'm not sure how many Lascannons you really want in this list, if you downgrade the Mortis and swap the Predators for the Sicaran Venator's you go from 10 Lascannon shots to 4, but you gain 4 S10 AP1 shots, which should still do a better job at wrecking armour.  If you choose not to downgrade the Mortis, then you swap 4 S9 AP2 shots for 4 S10 AP1 shots, not a downside that I can see.

[Moonstalker]

Despite having four troops, your list isn't legal.  Perhaps I'm wrong and this has changed in LACAL, but the wording of Pride of the Legion in Betrayal is that "Veteran and Terminator squads are Troops choices in the force, and units of either of these types must be selected as the force's compulsory Troops selections."  Emphasis mine.  You have to have 2 choices of vets and/or terminators if you take Pride of the Legion, Tac Squads cannot fulfill your compulsory troops, and neither can Templar Squads despite taking Sigismund (he makes them into Troops choices, but this does not change the Pride of the Legion RoW's restrictions any - they cannot fulfill your compulsory choices).

 

One thing that I think has changed in LACAL, but I'll bring it up just in case: Apothecaries, as per Betrayal, cannot join Templar squads.  I think they changed this in LACAL to permit it, but maybe not?  It is worth checking to be sure.

[Slips]

Sad to say that I actually hand't considered the Venator, if taking those would permit me to take 2 more Apoth's for my Tacs then that's more efficient that just having them stick to cover, shoot and hope for the best. The forcing of snap shots also is a very nice boost.

 

As for having an LC and AC Mortis Dreads, its mainly because those are the two I already have modeled but really I could proxy the LC as AC since I doubt anyone would  be that stuck up on WYSIWYG, especially in 30k.

 

Thanks for the ideas, the 13 extra points will probably go towards a Power Weapon on the Apothecary running around with the Templars for more AP3 melee goodness.

[Slips]

Despite having four troops, your list isn't legal.  Perhaps I'm wrong and this has changed in LACAL, but the wording of Pride of the Legion in Betrayal is that "Veteran and Terminator squads are Troops choices in the force, and units of either of these types must be selected as the force's compulsory Troops selections."  Emphasis mine.  You have to have 2 choices of vets and/or terminators if you take Pride of the Legion, Tac Squads cannot fulfill your compulsory troops, and neither can Templar Squads despite taking Sigismund (he makes them into Troops choices, but this does not change the Pride of the Legion RoW's restrictions any - they cannot fulfill your compulsory choices).

 

One thing that I think has changed in LACAL, but I'll bring it up just in case: Apothecaries, as per Betrayal, cannot join Templar squads.  I think they changed this in LACAL to permit it, but maybe not?  It is worth checking to be sure.

 

Hmm thanks Kit, I'll look into the PoTL rule and see if its a case of Either/or if its the former, I'll have to rethink this and maybe drop the RoW and free up an elites slot somehow so that I can keep the Terminators in.

I did build this list with BattleScribe and while Millicant is doing a great job keeping the index up to date, he might've missed something like this. I did it anyways since I didn't get any errors while building it - maybe because its Legal, maybe because it hasn't been accounted for. If I can't find the answer on my own/on the forums I might just shoot an email to Forgeworld (still waiting on my LACAL and LAICL) to clarify.

 

If anything I might just cut out a 20 man Tac and either get Vets to fulfill an anti Troop Role or more Storm Shield Terminators - something to that effect, we'll see.

 

As per the apothecaries, if they can't join the Templars, maybe another Primus Medicae in Art Armor would? but that would be a really top heavy squad : Sigismund + Consul + Templars in a Land Raider all the while having ANOTHER Primus Medicae (because I think you can have more than one per list no?) with a Terminator Squad.

[Triacom]

If you wanted to you could replace one of the tactical squads for a veteran squad of the same points cost pretty easily, if you give them a nuncio-vox you can have a 10 man fearless squad that your terminators can home in on, I do not recommend giving them a rhino though, since that means you'll have only one Rhino on the field that'll get shot off pretty easily.

 

Let's see, deleting one squad means you have 283 points to spend, a 10 veteran squad eats up the majority of those points, if you take the volkite charger off of the consul (I can all but guarantee he's not going to get that much use out of it and odd points are harder to work with) you can add a nuncio Vox, Artificer armour to all of the sargents, power weapons, or any other upgrade you want (or you can increase Terminator/Templar squad size) and you'll have all the troops you need to run this list, if you skimp on the upgrading squads a bit you can even change the Land Raider into a Spartan.

[Slips]

Yeah, that's more or less what I'll do until I can find out if Templars count as a "veteran Squad" - since thats what they are in the Legion, Veterans - for the Minimum Compulsory Troops selection. Or get general clarification on what counts/doesn't count for Pride of the Legion. Should be getting my 2 remaining FW books monday...Fingers Crossed. If not, Email time!

I probably will remove the Volkite Charger since I originally put it there to fill in some points to get as close to 3k as I could in the Original List.

The vet Squad will very highly likely be a 10 man squad so I can get the 2 special weapons; probably heavy bolters and might give them Sniper over fearless to so I can pseudo rend units to death through weight of fire with BS 5 Bolters and Heavy Bolters, although the Fearless rule looks like a good idea.

For this list I might not get a Spartan. While I can see the use for it and I do have one that I still need to paint (might keep it for the next ETL, we'll see ) I'd rather have a decently smaller sized transport (thus easier to hide / get cover for ) transport for my main Blender squad. Who knows, I'll put it to the test and try games with one or the other see which gets me the better results.

If I could Squeeze one more Templar into the squad then I'd consider a Spartan a bit more but I'd still be within the 10 man capacity of the Phobos : Sigismund, Apothecary + 7-8 Templar.

Terminators I could also increase quite readily but I'd have to find the points for a Storm Shield somewhere so that my OCD is satisfied and that the one terminator gets insta-gibbed. Since they'll be deep striking in along with the Primus Medicae who is equipped similarly to them.

Will post a Rectified list soon-ish.

[Dono1979]

Looks fun, however doesnt Pride of the Legion force you to take the Termies/Veterans as the compulsary Troop choices? Havent looked at that RoW for a while though so could be wrong completely.

 

I disagree with peoples assertion that you need a Super Heavy at 2.5K and above. I play a LOT of Apoc (twice a month) and you can certainly tackle SH lists with a list which doesnt contain any, in fact unless the opponents list is loaded with SH's (which most 30K lists wont be) I find that at 4K or less, it is more effective to not field a Super Heavy.

[Bowlzee]

Looks fun, however doesnt Pride of the Legion force you to take the Termies/Veterans as the compulsary Troop choices? Havent looked at that RoW for a while though so could be wrong completely.

 

This is true, yo must have at least 2 squads of Veterans or Terminators. So sadly the list is illegal :(

[Slips]

Hence why I'm currently trying to rewrite the list to include a Veteran Tac squad as opposed to 2 20 man Tacs.

[Slips]

New list : 

 

RoW : Pride of the Legion

         HQ (385pts)

• Legion Centurion (155pts)

  Primus Medicae

  • Terminator Armour

    Solarite Power Gauntlet, Teleportation Transponder, Terminator Armour, Vigil Pattern Storm Shield

• Sigismund (230pts)

Troops (1085pts)

• Legion Veteran Tactical Squad (260pts)

   Legion Veteran Sergeant, 9x Legion Veteran Space Marines,2x Heavy Bolter and Suspensor Web, Legion Vexilla, Nuncio-Vox, Sniper

• Legion Tactical Squad (270pts)

  Legion Tactical Sergeant, 19x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Nuncio-Vox                                                                               

• Legion Terminator Squad (290pts)

  4x Legion Terminators, Chainfist, Power Fist, Teleportation Transponder, 4x Vigil Pattern Storm Shield

  • Legion Terminator Sergeant

    Thunderhammer, Vigil Pattern Storm Shield

• Templar Brethren (525pts)

   6x Templar Brethren, Legion Vexilla, Nuncio-vox,

  • Chapter Champion

    Solarite Power Gauntlet

  • Land Raider Phobos (270pts)

    Armoured Ceramite (20pts)

Elites (905pts)

• Apothecarion Detachment (165pts)
  • Legion Apothecary

    Artificer Armour, Augury Scanner

  • Legion Apothecary

    Artificer Armour, Augury Scanner

• Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought (165pts)

  Two Twin-linked Autocannons

• Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought (165pts)

  Two Twin-linked Autocannons

• Legion Rapier Weapons Battery (150pts)
  • Legion Rapier Weapons Battery

    Graviton Cannon

  • Legion Rapier Weapons Battery

    Graviton Cannon

Heavy Support (625pts)

• Legion Sicarian Battle Tank (205pts)

  Armoured Ceramite, Auxiliary Drive, Lascannons

• Sicarian Venator Tank Destroyer (210pts)

  Armoured Ceramite

• Sicarian Venator Tank Destroyer (210pts)

  Armoured Ceramite           

I would've loved to squeeze in another Apothecary for the Tac Blob or the Vet squad, depending on who I attach the second one too, but couldn't find the loose points.

I Went ahead with the Dual Venator's Idea, will see how it works out might be a while before I can use them since I don't have the models currently.

 

Chose Sniper with the Vets instead since BS5(6?) Bolter + Heavy Bolter Spam with the rule should be quite devastating through weight of fire.

 

The Rest is as-is from the OG post, though I traded out the Primus Medicae's Volkite for a Storm Shield since that slipped through the cracks somehow.

 

 

P.S I got lazy and Just copy pasted from Battlescribe while removing any rule breaking items which is why the formatting is kinda wonky in places :P

[Millicant]

 

I did build this list with BattleScribe and while Millicant is doing a great job keeping the index up to date, he might've missed something like this. I did it anyways since I didn't get any errors while building it - maybe because its Legal, maybe because it hasn't been accounted for. If I can't find the answer on my own/on the forums I might just shoot an email to Forgeworld (still waiting on my LACAL and LAICL) to clarify.

 

 

Hey there!

 

Just wanted to pop in and clarify this.  

 

The others do have this correct - you must fill your mandatory troops choices with Terminators or Veterans.  Unfortunately, this CANNOT be represented in Battlescribe due to limitations of the program.  It simply isn't built for situations like this.  

 

Please do not think that a "legal battlescribe" list means a "legal Horus Heresy" list as there are quite a few factors similar to your situation that I am unable to represent.  This is combined with the fact that when there is a conflict - I must err towards allowing illegal lists rather than causing legal lists to return errors.  Battlescribe and my catalogues are list-building tools but the responsibility for legal lists still rests with the user.  

 

Glad you're using it - please visit the thread to let me know what you think or report anything that you find!