Ork Mauling

[Brother Mitch]

Greetings Brothers,

 

Some sad news, my little Astra Militarum force was well and truly munched by my friends ork army. The problem was that on turn 3, after my moves, I looked quite comfortable, with minimal losses and still a good amount of boots on the ground. Sadly, I nearly got tabled. By the end I was left with 2 troopers and a Leman Russ that was tied up by some bikes, in essence useless.

 

This was the second game, the first was much the same, I thought I was doing ok, being quite cautious and trying to blast the irks before they reached me.

 

Down to the specifics now, we are playing at 750pts and my lists is as follows:

 

HQ:

Company Command Squad with vox,

 

Troops:

Infantry Platoon:

Platoon Command Squad with heavy flamer, flamer and vox,

Infantry squad with autocannon team and vox,

Infantry squad with autocannon team and vox,

 

Veterans Squad, grenadiers, grenade launcher, meltagun and vox,

Dedicated transport: Chimera with flamer and heavy bolter.

 

Heavy support:

Leman Russ with HB sponsons and front gun and pintle SB,

Leman Russ with HB sponsons and front gun.

 

This is the best I can get out of the models I own so far. I think it might be down to tactics.

 

The ork list I was against had warboss, 2x 16 boys squad with Nob in both, 5 Lootas, gretchins with herder, 3 bikes and a looted vehicle.

 

Both games I managed to get rid of the Lootas early doors, the Boom gun on the looted vehicle was immense, squashed so many units and neither of my russes managed a decent hit. My autocannons got rid of his warboss really fast which I was really happy with, although 1 direct hit from that boom gun wiped out a full infantry squad. As soon as my units were engaged in close combat it was game over basically, but I had to take objectives.

 

What I think I would like, is either minor tweaks to the list or some much needed all round advice against orks.

 

Brother Mitch

[march10k]

Well, your list looks a bit bloated on ineffective upgrades and inefficiently distributed weapons.  The company command squad is BS4, but it has no weapon(s).  At minimum, I would assign them an autocannon, that will raise the number of hits achieved over the course of a game. The vox network is not a particularly good use of points, and the same is true of the leman russ sponsons.  The  grenade launcher is okay, but kind of wasted on the veterans.  And so on...without making too many radical changes, here's what I would do to your list:

 

HQ:
Company Command Squad with Autocannon (and two plasma guns?)

Troops:
Infantry Platoon:
Platoon Command Squad with heavy flamer

Dedicated transport: Chimera with heavy flamer and multilaser (same 3 shots, +1S, and it allows them their 6+ save...)
Infantry squad with flamer
Infantry squad with flamer

Veterans Squad, autocannon, forward sentries, heavy flamer.

Heavy support:
Leman Russ with no upgrades
Leman Russ with no upgrades

 

Mob up the two infantry squads to make twenty models with two flamers.  That's enough to give a damaged boys squad pause.  If you have the points (I haven't calculated), giving that blob of 20 a priest would turn the tables and let them actively hunt the orks.  I think the looted vehicle with the boom gun should be the number one priority because it can delete entire squads in a single shot.  Focus the leman russes and autocannons on that until it dies.  It's nice that you made fast work of the lootas, but they don't seem that threatening to me, compared to the boom gun, the warboss, the bikes, etc.  They're kinda wasted shooting at guardsmen, and they can't hurt the russes, so they threaten...the chimera?  Like you said, tactics is part of the problem.  With a shooty army, you need good target priority, and the lootas are no threat to assault you, so they should not be that high on your list.  The boom gun and the bikes are the most threatening.  After that the warboss and the boys.  Then the lootas and gretchin.

[scatmandoo]

What kind of ork armys were you facing as that will help us help you.

[Brother Mitch]

Thanks for the replies folks.

 

As for the orks, I don't know the specifics but here goes:

 

HQ:

Standard Warboss

 

Troops:

16 boyz with Nob

16 boyz with Nob

10 gretchins with herder (I think, can't remember how many)

5 Lootas with Dakka guns

 

3 bikes with Dakka and close combat

3 killa kans, 2 with scorcha and one with big shoota

 

2 games, first was relic and 2nd was multiple objectives, he basically just forgot the objectives and went straight for me, I tried to thin them out and advance slightly to get a few objectives.

 

@March10k: I like the adjustments, I am kind of new to 40k Nd guard, so those pointers Are greatly received. As much as not taking the sponsons, I think they killed more than the battle cannon, but I get your point.

 

Thanks again

 

Brother Mitch

[Idlem]

How where you using your orders? Did you spread out your squads too far away to benefit from them? What were you shooting at with your two Russes?

 

You had some upgrades that, yes, could have been spend elsewhere, but over all you should have been able to blast apart his infantry with those battle cannons. Provided you kept your units together enough to benefit from orders, you should have had an easy enough time wiping those orks off the map. Looted tank shouldn't have had decent enough armor to stand up to the Battle Cannons or the Autocannons with "Bring it Down!" on them. The boyz shouldn't have had much luck footslogging against those battlecannons and snap firing heavy bolters either.

 

Only thing I can think of is that you focused too much on objectives and didn't let your squads support one another.

[scatmandoo]

I agree about the prioritisation of relevant orders. Maybe instead of vox network try more weapons?

 

The need to make the most of all bs4 weapon slots on ccs and vets is recommended. I am also a big fan of specialisation so units have a task at hand and stick to it and aid each other.

 

Eg, vets 2xmelta and 1×Hf in a chimera advancing.

Infantry squads have a A/C and G/L for stripping hull points.

 

Also as said russ's with ordnance weapons have wasted points buying upgrades for other weapons as they snapfire.

 

Maybe count one russ as a vanquisher for popping armour?

 

And with some slight modification the second could be made to be either a Eradicator or taking the barrel off and converting to an Exterminator. Could always use the barrel on the original tank

To make the vanquisher turret then?

Also if available the heavy stubber is normally a better upgrade than the storm bolter imo.

[T0MMY]

If you have to have sponsors on Ruses could pop Hflamers in for minimal points, good close mob killing abilities. I'd be tempted to get a punisher or exterminator instead of a Russ...

 

March has the right idea, alto I wouldn't combo veteran autocannon with HF, maybe sneak a plasma gun or two in (BS4) and sit back. Mobbing the platoon infantry is a great plan. Two (or three!) squads with flamers (and poss power weapon (axe) sergeants) + a priest is pretty scary. Maybe drop a russ for this if you need the points. Out mobbing orks is always amusing too :) 

[Brother Mitch]

@Idlem:

I totally overlooked that order so many times, and could have used that with the autocannons to kill the tank, think I was too focused with the warboss as he ravaged me last time I played him. Live and learn I suppose. I was too erratic with my battle cannon focus, as I shifted from one target to another when I missed. I feel like such a noob now that I look back, also my snap fire rolls were less than useless.

Also you got it in one, I was a bit too hung up on the objectives, I think I should of held back as he charged, blasted as much as I could then late game objective grab.

 

@scatmandoo:

You are totally right, my ordering and just general play was erratic and my forces were ridiculously split. My friend is also at the same stage as me so I will proxy in some other Russ variants until I find the most killiest.

 

@T0MMY:

I have fiddled around with the list and made a revised one to tackled the green skin menace accordingly.

 

@all repliers:

Thank you for your input guys, it really means a lot to have help like this, otherwise I would have been left scratching my head for a while and have dented confidence for ages.

 

I have created a new list based upon your suggestions, I will put it into the army list section if you want to have a look.

 

My only other question would be, what else would you tweak for a Necrons force??

 

Thank you brothers

 

Brother Mitch

[WarriorFish]

When Orks hit they hit hard, you've got to reduce and manage them as much as possible before they land (and they always will). After that it's about controlling their options and marshalling your forces effectively. Cover ignoring stuff is great against the greenskin filth, an Eradicator will help you out along with Hellhounds and Wyverns in particular.

 

Good advice here, you want to have plenty of models so you can throw as many dice at them as you can, which should also do well against Necrons as they hit hard too albeit more from shooting. We don't beat the enemy by having better units generally, but by having bigger guns and more of them ;)

[Andhil]

As I see it, all of his Vehicles are flimsy. Both the Kans and the Looted wagon are AV11 (or less) iirc. Both the Autocannons and the Battle Cannons should be able to deal with those easily.

If I'd face the list above, I'd go about it like this:

Most important:

-Take out Wagon. The Boomgun, as you know, really messes up infantry.

-Damage Ork boy mobs. They mainly rely on numbers, so I'd use my own Battle Cannons (or Punishers, or pretty much any Leman variant for that matter) to kill as many as possible before they reach my lines. Lasguns are horrible when facing T4. That's why I'd opt for Heavy Bolters in my Infantry Squads for this precise reason. More firepower, means more dead Orks.

-Kill the Bikes. They're definitely capable of getting to your lines in a turn or 2, and then start killing tanks.

Next:

-Kill the Kans. Skorchas turn Guardsmen into torches. Not nice. The Shoota isn't such a big threat really.

-Lootas. They're actually not that dangerous for your list. His weapons are pretty overkill, as they can only damage your troops.

-Mop up Orks and Gretchin.

Basically you make sure your Troops are safe while killing off his.

You'll get the hang of it, General. Send in the next wave!

[march10k]

The heavy flamer really only functions as an assault deterrent in an all-comers list (you want to lose 2" of assault range, eat D3 S5 AP4 hits, and then suffer a disordered charge, to boot? Bring it!), but against greenskins, it's extraordinarily useful.  Shoot the autocannon at the scary stuff for a couple turns, then when the boyz get close, roast em!!!!  There is hardly any army that should fear a random heavy flamer more than greenskins!!!!

 

/edit/  why?  Because most armies that fear AP4 templates are shooty, but orks gotta get close to you before they can get stuck in...the problem with templates is range...and orks solve that for you, or they just plain lose.

[Andhil]

@march10k: Let's not forget that the new Orks have improved charges, especially on the 'Waagh!' which reduces the Heavy Flamer to only an Overwatch weapon, which is a bit of a waste if you ask me. On mech squads however......

As to what to tweak for a Necrons force? Not much really. You have the advantage of range on most of your weapons, as the Necron's effective range is 24". Just make sure to provide cover for your vehicles, as the Gauss weapons chew our beautiful tanks up.

It's more of a change in tactics, rather than in the list. Or, in the Guard's case, target priority. Our tactic is basically:"Shoot it. A lot. Shoot it until it drops, then continue shooting until it stops moving."

So all you need to do is find out which units to shoot first, and which you can ignore. I won't lie, it isn't easy, but you'll get the hang of it.