difference in space wolves and blood angels?

[durdle-durdle]

I know fluffwise their differences, i mean tabletop wise.  They both seem heavily assualt oriented, and i can't really see how their playstyle is much different.  Am i missing something?

[Grimtooth]

BA are better in close assault due to their bonuses for charging and the sang priest fnx bubbles. However Wolves will outshine them in the midrange to assault as they are just tactical and assault marines without the extra special weapons.

[durdle-durdle]

also out of curiosity as a DA deathwing player, how big of a difference is there between deathwing and wolf guard?

from what i can see on the internet, it's just basically that we have fearless.

[Sn4k30r]

BA are better in close assault due to their bonuses for charging and the sang priest fnx bubbles. However Wolves will outshine them in the midrange to assault as they are just tactical and assault marines without the extra special weapons.

 

plus BA use more specific Jump infantry and Armored spearheads for army lists usually, while SW use infantry and thunderwolves cavalry usually :)

[Squark]

Deathwing are teleport focused, and are pretty much always better at terminators as troops (At the moment, wolf guard have a niche with power maul spam in certain metagames, but the fact if Logan doesn't synergize with Wolf Guard well and he's twice the price of Belial)

[Leif Bearclaw]

Appearances are deceptive. The difference is that BAs really are an assault army, with their Death Company, fast vehicles, sanguniary priests and plentiful Jump Infantry. Wolves are a jack of all trades force (at least, for the time being ). While things like Grey Hunters look really nasty, they can't stand toe to toe with true assault specialists. Plus our hammernators cost something like 63 points a man, and the majority of our specialised assault troops are WS3. The only 'proper' assault unit we have are TWC, which are really expensive. Wolves excel by making the enemy fight outside his comfort zone. We're nasty enough in assault to give Tau and Necrons a bad time, but we can also outgun an Ork or Tyranid assault rush. While all Marines can do this, they have various special toys and dirty tricks to fall back on, while the versatility of our Grey Hunters gives us the edge at the 'play the game your opponent doesn't want to play' style.

[Firepower]

Appearances are deceptive. The difference is that BAs really are an assault army, with their Death Company, fast vehicles, sanguniary priests and plentiful Jump Infantry. Wolves are a jack of all trades force (at least, for the time being ). While things like Grey Hunters look really nasty, they can't stand toe to toe with true assault specialists. Plus our hammernators cost something like 63 points a man, and the majority of our specialised assault troops are WS3. The only 'proper' assault unit we have are TWC, which are really expensive. Wolves excel by making the enemy fight outside his comfort zone. We're nasty enough in assault to give Tau and Necrons a bad time, but we can also outgun an Ork or Tyranid assault rush. While all Marines can do this, they have various special toys and dirty tricks to fall back on, while the versatility of our Grey Hunters gives us the edge at the 'play the game your opponent doesn't want to play' style.

I mostly agree with this (especially that last bit I bolded), but I think GH are better at rebuffing an assault than you're suggesting. Death Company can steamroll them, but an Assault Squad, not so much.

The one major difference I can think of when I look at Blood Angels is mobility. It goes hand in hand with being an Assault army, but yeah, it's important to note just how speedy these buggers can be. Death Company can be chucked at just about anything, but from what I understand reading BA players' notes, the rest of their units have to stick and move, and choose their charges very carefully.

[Haakon_Stormbrow]

i have always seen it like this:

 

you have 3 categories of battle tactics-

• Attack vs Defence
• Speed vs Endurance
• Close Combat vs Ranged Combat

 

Now even though specific units do one of these 6 things well and you can tailor your army to do this, this is how the army as a whole looks:

Ultramarines are your benchmark, they are perfectly balanced in every way

Space Wolves favour Defence, Endurance and Close Combat

Blood Angels favour Defence, Speed and Close Combat

Dark Angels favour Attack, Endurance and Ranged Combat (note though, deathwing favour Close Combat, and ravenwing favour Speed)

White Scars favour Attack, Speed and Close Combat

Imperial Fists favour Defence, Endurance, and are Balanced in Close to Ranged

Iron Hands favour Defence, and are balanced in the other 2 categories.

Salamanders favour Attack, balanced and Close Combat.

Ravenguard favour Defence, Speed and Ranged Combat.

 

or if that analogy is too technical, blood angels to space wolves is like Vampires vs Werewolves 

[Nova_chron]

Sorry Haakon but I have to disagree, the wolves are very much a counter punch army. Only blood claws really want to hit CC ASAP and thunderwolf cavalry but they are dedicated CC units, the rest of the army is definitely a shoot them up then bloody them in CC when it is beneficial. Blood angels on the other hand are much more aggressive, given their mobility when I am playing my knights of blood I am always looking to hit CC I just have to be opportunistic but BA are not a castle or defense army at all.

 

Just my thoughts in how they play not trying to bash you at all. I agree with everything but those two points.

[Haakon_Stormbrow]

Sorry Haakon but I have to disagree, the wolves are very much a counter punch army. Only blood claws really want to hit CC ASAP and thunderwolf cavalry but they are dedicated CC units, the rest of the army is definitely a shoot them up then bloody them in CC when it is beneficial. Blood angels on the other hand are much more aggressive, given their mobility when I am playing my knights of blood I am always looking to hit CC I just have to be opportunistic but BA are not a castle or defense army at all.

 

Just my thoughts in how they play not trying to bash you at all. I agree with everything but those two points.

you are correct sir.... i will edit it, i feel like you do and must have rushed my comment.

just a textual error not a concept error ;)

[legalsars]

I am probably pretty late to this party but here is my two to three point five cents:

 

Blood angels are CC/ assault specialists.  Their marines, gear, 5th ed codex and vehicles are geared toward dropping in, running up, or flying across and stepping on your back molars, then kicking you in the throat. 

 

The offset to this is that most of their weaponry is short to mid ranged.  What is available at long range would be on traacks, such as a predator or vindicator... their vehicles are "fast" and so get to move further but still fire off their str 10 pie plates.  In CC, their death company dreadnaughts are straight up blenders. of anything power armored.

 

Wolves are a hybrid army, mid- range shooting army with counterattack capability.  I've been messing with wolves for several editions now and the one thing I am quite confident about is that it is almost always somehow beneficial to let your opponent charge you, because the chance of getting your attacks on countercharge are very high, if your units are properly given wolf guard leaders. Their 5th ed incarnation of long fangs allows for a pretty useful (and likely soon to be eliminated) version of split fire (fire control) which makes keeping the group leader alive instead of as an ablative wound worthwhile.  Their dreads serve best in a fire support roll, and at least in my experience, benefit from drop pod action.

 

The wolves also can be fast moving, having both beasts and cavalry, in addition to bikes, speeders and jetpack capable units; however, the cavalry, while nasty, is a fire magnet.  Wolf armies can get really nasty on first turn if you bring drop pods with lots of melta and high Str/ Low AP weaponry.

 

Based on the unit build, the grey hunters aren't really meant to stand still, as you get no real benefit from it,you have no heavy weapons in the unit natively and meltas/flamers are assault weapons.  These guys can take an objective, hold it and fight off challengers with the best of them.  The blood claws are more your shock and awe/drown the enemy in attacks option.  The catch is that without a wolf priest allowing rerolls, the WS 3 will limit their usefulness against dedicated CC units and they don't have much of an answer for anti-tank.  I've seen few units rip through a tau firewarrior line quicker than a 15 deep pile of claws, though.

 

These guys really benefit from mechanized support more than most marines IMO, especially if you put your cav behind the steel wall as you run up, then run them into the fray and minimize wounds you take.

[Haakon_Stormbrow]

The reason I say

Space Wolves favour Defence, Endurance and Close Combat

Blood Angels favour Defence, Speed and Close Combat

Is as follows:

Space Wolves Attack vs Defence:

Space wolves clearly favour defence, with their signature move Counter attack, they are all about firing at the enemies till the last second and just when the enemy feels it has no option but to charge, the space wolves have completed their trap, making the enemies commit to a charge and then countering them, relying on their superior fighting skills to wipe out what is left of the enemy.

Although favouring Mid range Weaponry (12"-24") they are all about providing interlocking security through fire, using Long Fangs to cover the battle field from afar; Veteran Wolf scouts providing intel and sneak attacks from the side and rear and finally heavy and fast hitting bikes, calvary and speeders for quick pincer movements and distractions.

Space Wolves Speed vs Endurance:

Although space wolves have a multitude of techniques to get to the fight fast with calvary, drop pods, bikes, and transports, the space wolves them selves are tough, the longer a battle lasts the better off the space wolves usually are, using tactics and the counter charge technique they can take a hit and keep on coming, space wolves are one of the best footslogging armies that are combat warfare fighters, no other army can have a whole force which limits it's self to 6" movement per turn and still steadily advance on a battle and expect to win, every 6" closer you get makes your opponent that much more afraid, in fact with the right tactics and interlocking support from long fags it is possible to start 24" away, turn 1, get to 18" away and shoot, turn 2 get to 12" away and shoot lots, turn 3 get to 6" away shoot a bit and charge. No other force can do that and expect to win, the reason we use transports is to make combat happen 1 turn earlier. So even though speed is an ally of the wolves, it is quite clearly the armies theme to Last and Last.

Space Wolves Close vs Ranged:

Honestly i would say that space wolves are 1 of 2 of the best marine chapters in the 12"-24" range (the other being Salamanders), they are also 1 of the best close combat armies, hence i say close combat is more their theme. when it comes to a definitive answer i call space wolves Mid to Close range fighters.

Blood Angels Defence vs Attack:

A novice may say Blood angels are attack..... nope they are clearly defensive, Blood angels disguise their defensive nature though, they are combat specialists and do everything they can to minimise casualties before combat, they deep strike so that they can get to combat before loosing too many members, they use transports to get to combat before they loose too many members, they take priests to heal injured companions, they use jump packs to strike from behind cover. Blood Angels are all about Numbers to win, and to make sure they have numbers they use speed and defence and healing to keep those numbers high once they reach combat.

Blood Angels Speed vs Endurance:

As mentioned earlier Blood Angels use speed, they use it as a defensive and an aggressive manoeuvre, they like to act first, they use bikes, jump packs, deep strike, (and use to use higher initiative on the charge with furious charge to attack first, fast and hard), they also have psychic powers which increase init to 10 (or did).

Blood Angels Ranged vs Close combat:

Everyone know that size isn't everything (isn't it) but they love to excel at what they have, and they have a mighty 6" to work with, with hand flamers, hand meltas, bolt pistols, flamers, these boys are best at 12" to 6" they get close hit once if that didn't work they hit it with a stick, or a fist.

Space Wolves Vs Blood Angels:

When playing space wolves against blood angels, if you have the opportunity then who goes first can mean a lot, if they have a deep strike army then you want them to go first, so they can show up and you can shoot them, you want to react to this army, remember the space wolves strength is endurance so having the opportunity to go last on the last turn is what can win you a game. But against any other blood angel force you want first turn if you can, deny them the ability dictate the battle, get their numbers as low as you can before they make combat, regardless of what you have, your grey hunters should try to kite the blood angels and rapid-fire as much as possible, so just shoot shoot shoot, and when they finally charge with half a squad, bitch slap them with a back hand. If they take a razorback force use tactics like focused fire, pop the vehicle and then use another squad to kill the insides, you may be leaving every second transport alone, but if he has only half his army to assault you with or score with then you outnumber him, and you still have your countercharge up your sleeve if your opponent is stupid.

Blood Angels Vs Space Wolves:

Sorry but you should forfeit jokes, but honestly their are simple tricks, take first turn unless you are using a deep strike army. Do everything you can to minimise the damage to your men till they can make combat, as good as space wolves are your best hope is to get to 6" fire all your pistols and charge your 10 men in, if your average 10 man assault squad fires 2 melta type weapons and 8 pistols, you should take out on average 3 puppies, we will likely kill 1 with overwatch, so now the odds are 9 to 7 in your favour, and we will be even from here on out, statistically you should win a fight in which you have a numbers advantage, especially with furious charge on your side.

If you can get multiple squads to charge the same squad so that you can wipe them out in the one turn and then consolidate to a better position putting 1 squad in front of the other like a shield, so even if your front squad is charged you can follow up with a charge in your next turn and regain that furious charge bonus.

So in conclusion, just like space wolves want to isolate and focus ranged fire popping a transport and killing whats inside , you want to isolate and charge units of space wolves.

Hopefully that clears up every question you had about the 2 factions

Remember: Blood Angels are short to close range, Space Wolves are mid to close range.

[ORKILL]

Space Wolves are cool!......Blood Angels drool.

[gomericus]

one has fleas the other sparkles when they are in sunlight