GreyCrow Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Pandemicus, what's in your list actually ? I'm going on a limb here, but perhaps your list betrays your battleplan and allows for an easy read of what you're trying to accomplish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornywingythingy Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Takes too long, belakor is better gliding and jinking every time something shoots at him for a 2+ cover and punking the dreadnight in cc, he has 5 attacks that hit on 3s and are master crafted, and wound on twos at ap2, and he has ew so is immune to force. Vs would take far too long to plunk off one wound at s time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandemicus Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 What about vector striking it down, for instance a bloodthirster could just fly around over it and hit it with the lash. Meanwhile just run your heldrakes over it while they shoot at other stuff. Just don't land your monstrous creatures until it is dead. Belakor might be of note. Use him to either invisibility a unit to deal with it, or just have him fly around being awesome while he vector strikes it repeatedly. Not a bad idea in regards to vector strike. Since the start of 7th, I have been reluctant to do Flying Daemon Princes- perhaps I should? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teetengee Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Maybe? Also at horny, I suppose you are correct, although that doesn't really mean belakor isn't a good answer, just different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandemicus Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 Pandemicus, what's in your list actually ? I'm going on a limb here, but perhaps your list betrays your battleplan and allows for an easy read of what you're trying to accomplish. I played last night in a 2050 point game- same opponent, though this time he had one Dreadknight and an Imperial Knight (just for fun ) This is what I took- Lord- MoN, Sigil, VOLW, Meltabomb, Powersword Sorcerer- MoN, Sigil, ML 3, Familiar 3 x Plague Marines (7) - 2x Meltaguns, Powerfist, VOLW, Rhino (plain) Ciltists (15) - MoN Raptors (7) - MoN, 2x Meltaguns, Meltabomb, Icon of Veng Land Riader - +combi melta, combi bolter Defiler Havocs (5)- MoN, 2 Lascannons, Autocannon, Missile Launcher w/ Flakk Defense Line with Icarus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teetengee Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Who is the land raider transporting? It really isn't worth it's points unless it is delivering units. That being said, how did the game go this time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandemicus Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 Who is the land raider transporting? It really isn't worth it's points unless it is delivering units. That being said, how did the game go this time? Not well- my opponent pretty much tabled me. I didn't put anything in the LR- as I knew he'd taget it first, and did as a matter of fact. With Purgation squads firing out of tanks and the Imperial Knight shooting everything in sight... ugh. His warlord was Tigurius, in a GK Terminator squad- ouch. Lots of psychic powers and enfeeble hurts Plague Marines. Psybolt Ammo plus enfeeble equals dead PM squads. I have played the game for a long time. I've lost more than I've won I'd wager- but I usually give as good as I've get. This particular oppoent just seems to have my number... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Drake Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Sorry to hear you got beat dude. Like Hornywingythingy said, lasher maulers fit the bill here, don't forget their invul saves & 5/6 chance to ignore everything except immobilised+. I also like the idea of rending, Daemonettes are cheap to ally in and are fast, plus they can be summoned too so they're an option. Spawn, maybe but like someone said, better of not wasting all those wounds to force weapons. What about using your own force weapons on them? A Slaanesh Biker Sorcerer with Biomancy? Be'Lakor will beat one up, but he's a big investment and you'd have to build your list around him. Plus, if it goes wrong he's a lot of points to lose. Dreadknights are pretty cheesy I guess. Hope you beat him soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Lord- MoN, Sigil, VOLW, Meltabomb, Powersword Sorcerer- MoN, Sigil, ML 3, Familiar 3 x Plague Marines (7) - 2x Meltaguns, Powerfist, VOLW, Rhino (plain) Ciltists (15) - MoN Raptors (7) - MoN, 2x Meltaguns, Meltabomb, Icon of Veng Land Riader - +combi melta, combi bolter Defiler Havocs (5)- MoN, 2 Lascannons, Autocannon, Missile Launcher w/ Flakk Defense Line with Icarus lord should be bike claw/fist. or CS nurgle lord. power sword is wasted points on him. sorc should have a bike too and you should never run just 3 power dice. There should be 2 other casters with him , preferable supported by horrors. If you think about runing a single sorc. Dont do it. PM units are too big. the extra pm give little for a lot of points. 5 PMs is enough. Cultists should never have mark upgrades. specialy mon. point per point if you took the points and bought more cultists the units would be more resilient. Defiler cost at least 100pts too much. want to run a walker take 2-3 mauler or if you realy realy realy realy realy have to run a dread and cults, you can take the hellcult formation. But you would realy realy realy realy want to run a dread[something like can't transport models too far or taking stuff on a plane and having a limited amount of stuff you can take with you]. Raptors are infirior to bikers in points, efficiency, speed, resilience. Spawn vs bikers can be pondered, and can depend on a build. Raptors are never an option. flakk upgrade is bad. a single str 7 shot does nothing to flyers [unless someone decides to take a realy bad one and even then you have a 33% chance to miss with the shot]. If you take havocks you take 4 auto cannons [and you need anti av13 in other slots in form of melta bikers]. If you want lascanons you take oblits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Can you still puppetmaster the Imperial Knight with bel'akor? Honestly it kinda seems like this guy's using a pretty competitive list and you're just playing a more fluff oriented list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Drake Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I believe puppet master is no more. What the jeske said is spot on. No offence but your list is pretty fluffy & his is more competitive orientated. What models do you have access to, just because I'm thinking that you could proxy the Defiler as a Soul Grinder…? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandemicus Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 I believe puppet master is no more. What the jeske said is spot on. No offence but your list is pretty fluffy & his is more competitive orientated. What models do you have access to, just because I'm thinking that you could proxy the Defiler as a Soul Grinder…? I could certainly proxy the Soul Grinder in... I try to play fluffy lists when I can- that's my main love of this game and hobby. The thought of running Plague Marines and Daemonettes hurts my mono-god sensibilities! As for what else I've got for Plague Marines- Typhus Lord on foot Lord on Palanquin Sorcerer (working on another, actually) 14 Terminators A ton of Plague Marines (some with Meltas, Flamers, Plasma) 4 Rhinos 70 zombies 10 Possessed 10 Raptors 6 Spawn 2 Heldrakes 3 Helbrutes Land Raider Predator Forgefiend 2 Vindicators Defiler Nurgle Daemon-wise Great Unclean One Epidemus 21 Plaguebearers 2 Heralds of Nurgle 7 Nurgling Swarms 6 Plague Drones 2 Daemon Princes (Not for regular games- The Plaguereaper, a Warhound Titan, 2 Blight Drones, the Great Great Unclean One) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Well that's part of the problem then man, chaos has to work hard for each victory and to usually stand a chance of winning those victories you'd have to play unfluffy lists. Kinda have to make the choice between the two. That being said, have you tried a zombie list against him? Just swamp the board with zombies. TheDevourer used to have a topic with batreps involving his zombie army. He did really well from what I remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teetengee Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Superheavies are now LOW slots... Also you might want to consider double vindicator lists. Str 10 AP2 pieplates might be able to do some serious damage (although the range means that if the knight doesn't die from the first round of shooting you may very well have one fewer vindicator next turn after assaults.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDevourer Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Hehe, here's me stalking the post and I unexpectedly see my name. Zombies... They would bring you options to just keep the dreadknights stuck in combat, also leave him with no juicy targets for all the anti-tank weaponry. Not sure about how well a zombie horde would do in taking objectives against an imperial knight however. Also I feel zombies have lost too much to be viable at the moment. The list used to pack max heldrakes and banked on them killing enough to compensate the lack of damage of the list, possibly also oblits depending on meta, but with the heldrake being meh now (In comparison to pre nerf)... I feel that the zombie swarm is a) too slow for maelstrom which is where it would be good (Just grab all the objectives and profit) b) Lost too much output to be viable (How do we increase the output if heldrake damage is so inefficient?) c) Still awesome at tarpitting and possibly even better now depending on terrain (Not needing to be covered by ruins for the 4+cover save) d) The play is too slow unless you are experienced and this will frustrate your opponents, I used to be able to take a turn in 15 minutes with 150+ zombies and 3 drakes, however that isn't really the idea of the list, as jeske will surely point out (You are meant to max your turn length to decrease the opponents damage) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandemicus Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 Superheavies are now LOW slots... Also you might want to consider double vindicator lists. Str 10 AP2 pieplates might be able to do some serious damage (although the range means that if the knight doesn't die from the first round of shooting you may very well have one fewer vindicator next turn after assaults.). Is it any superheavy, or just the ones listed in Escalation? Theoretically I could take the Plaguereaper, but that would that count since it is technically from the Pandorax Apoc book... Hehe, here's me stalking the post and I unexpectedly see my name. Zombies... They would bring you options to just keep the dreadknights stuck in combat, also leave him with no juicy targets for all the anti-tank weaponry. Not sure about how well a zombie horde would do in taking objectives against an imperial knight however. Also I feel zombies have lost too much to be viable at the moment. The list used to pack max heldrakes and banked on them killing enough to compensate the lack of damage of the list, possibly also oblits depending on meta, but with the heldrake being meh now (In comparison to pre nerf)... I feel that the zombie swarm is a) too slow for maelstrom which is where it would be good (Just grab all the objectives and profit) Lost too much output to be viable (How do we increase the output if heldrake damage is so inefficient?) c) Still awesome at tarpitting and possibly even better now depending on terrain (Not needing to be covered by ruins for the 4+cover save) d) The play is too slow unless you are experienced and this will frustrate your opponents, I used to be able to take a turn in 15 minutes with 150+ zombies and 3 drakes, however that isn't really the idea of the list, as jeske will surely point out (You are meant to max your turn length to decrease the opponents damage) I do have lots o zombies, and it is so fluffy for Plague Marines. So, what would you suggest for my dilemma? I want to be fluffy but I'd like to compete against this guy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 It is sad that with so many models and cash spent it is impossible to build one 1500pts army with the collection you have. Bummer realy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teetengee Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Try Mech? 2x Vindi (with daemonic possession as you want to be shooting every turn and BS3 is mostly irrelevant on the vindi, and maybe a spare weapon to reduce the risk of weapon destroyed results hitting the big gun) Lascannon Predator 2-3x Plague marines (5 man with 2x melta and melta bombs) in rhinos Cultist horde (use the zombies I guess???) flying nurgle daemon prince rolling on biomancy or malefic for summoning things (although you will probably need to add in some Mastery level fuel in order to actual get off any powers, especially against grey knights, but you will have better luck with powers that don't target the enemy) that might work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandemicus Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 It is sad that with so many models and cash spent it is impossible to build one 1500pts army with the collection you have. Bummer realy. It's not impossible. I have done well up to this point. I don't mind the losing- I just want to be challenging to my opponent in this case. I may just be using the wrong strategy- who knows how many tactical errors I've made as well? I'm trying to learn from my mistakes, so that I can make it a close game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teetengee Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 I'm sure you can make an army just fine, although it would be helpful to see some battle reps so we could help you better with strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 You should point out to him that his Purgation squads can only fire two weapons out of the Chimera now - the others have to fire lasguns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanofAngels Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Some of the oldest tricks in the book tend to work for dreadknights; at the end of the day, it's a really high quality but low volume of attacks, which lends itself to being tied up the whole game by essentially worthless, but high volumed, units. Cultists, zombies, even generic marines tend to work fine for this, especially if you only spend a fraction of the points to tie a 235 DK up for 2+ turns/the whole game. Alternatively, though I haven't tried it, I would maybe try out a maulerfiend in this situation, since his powerfists and magma cutters could be a bad day for the Dreadknight. Even if they both killed each other at I4, the mauler runs 125 (roughly half that of a dreadknight with incinerator and teleporter). I still stand by the Black Mace prince being good at dealing with them as well Goodluck! Don't let Codex naysayers get you down. Playing that list with yours will inherently make you better at dealing with his heavy hitters anyways! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Heh. If only you could give Cultists eviscerators... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandemicus Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 You should point out to him that his Purgation squads can only fire two weapons out of the Chimera now - the others have to fire lasguns. I thought 5 fire out of the top of the Chimera? When did they change this and where can I find out more about this change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teetengee Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 It changed with the Astra Militarum book, but I am not sure if chimera's in all other books changed to match or not. You will need to check the faqs. EDIT: TYPO PURGE WITH FIRE!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.