Ravenwing Command Squad or Black Knights?

[Noxnoctis22]

I just picked up a RW Command Squad/Black Knights box set and I'm not sure which way to assemble the models. I'm new to DA and I have no experience with either unit. Reading about them is only so good.

 

The other RW units I have are the RW Battleforce (6 bikes, 1 attack bike & 1 land speeder) and the RW Bikes from the DV Box Set (3 bikes). I also plan on adding a Libby or Techmarine on a bike at some point.

 

So which way should I go with the newest models, Comman Squad or Black Knights?

[Caldria]

If you are indeed planning on having an HQ on a bike, this would unlock the command squad. So I would suggest going for the command squad over the black knights in the fast attack slot. They are cheaper per model. Have the same firepower options (plasma talon and grenade launcher) albeit, they'd only be able to get one grenade launcher for their 5 models instead of 2 grenade launchers in the black knights 6 man squad.

But this also allows you to field an apothecary to give the unit feel no pain, to keep their firepower on the board longer (as well as helping your IC attached to them)

Although I'd recommend NOT building the champion.. the ravenwing champion is pretty lacklustre.

Either way, you're going to want to pick up a second box (can proxy for now) so you can build 6 bikers. 5 normal (one with grenade launcher) and then the 6th one can be built as an apothecary. so you'll have 5 normal for the command squad if you do not wish to include the apoth, and should you wish to include the apoth you can simply swap out a normal one for him.

On a side note, since you most likely wont be building the champion (unless you really want to) you can use the fancy champion stuff for your librarian on the bike. to make him stand out more.

just some suggestions

[Noxnoctis22]

So If I understood you correctly (having a rough day at work) this is how I should try to set them up...

 

HQ w/bike - I need to decide on which HQ, I can do that later on

 

1st Box

RW Apothecary

RW BK

RW BK

 

2nd Box

RW BK

RW BK

RW BK (or use this to make the HQ unit)

 

That way I can have 1x RW Apo & 4x RW BK OR 5x RW BK for the Command Squad. I like the idea of swapping the two bikes so I have the option to take the RW Apo or not but I may just stick with the RW Apo and use the extra bike to make the HQ unit.

 

The RW Champion is really worth it huh? 

 

What about a banner?

[Caldria]

you'll most likely need a normal ravenwing bike (one with bolters) for the librarian or techmarine. As their bikes dont have plasma talons, what I meant with using the champion stuff, was just using his fancy parts for his bike to spruce up the bike you will use for your librarian or techmarine (or both, since you'll have 2 boxes so 2 champion parts)

You could maybe magnetize the arm of one of the normal plasma talon ones to allow for the banner if you should so choose if you were to have a list that would make full use of the salvo bolters (i.e pure ravenwing or ravenwing/greenwing mix)

Between the two boxes you could build

Box 1
RW Apothecary
RW BK (with grenade launcher)  - always take the grenade launcher in the squad. its a free upgrade, and its a fantastic weapon.
RW BK (magnetized arm to possibly allow for the banner) - Banner of Devastation is fantastic on this squad, they are mobile and can get the banner to where it's needed easily. But they personally don't make use of it, as they don't have bolters. So you'd need to use it with the rest of the list being able to make use of salvo bolters.

Box 2
RW BK
RW BK
RW BK

this gives you:
3 ravenwing black knights with plasma talons
1 ravenwing black knight with plasma talons and magnetized arm for banner or no banner loadout. (otherwise, identical to the 3 black knights above)
1 ravenwing black knight with ravenwing grenade launcher
1 ravenwing apothecary

^ that gives you a lot of customization on how to equip your command squad, which you can change at any time.

you could even run them as just a 5 man black knight squad in the fast attack slot. just take the apothecary out. and if you've magnetized a banner guy, put the non banner arm on him.

so you'd be left with 4 ravenwing black knights with plasma talons and 1 ravenwing black knight with grenade launcher.

but generally the command squad would be the better option if you have them unlocked with an HQ on bike.

[Noxnoctis22]

you'll most likely need a normal ravenwing bike (one with bolters) for the librarian or techmarine. As their bikes dont have plasma talons, what I meant with using the champion stuff, was just using his fancy parts for his bike to spruce up the bike you will use for your librarian or techmarine (or both, since you'll have 2 boxes so 2 champion parts)

 

That makes sense, needing a "normal" bike for the HQ unit. 

 

So the first box is set, using the magnet for the banner will work just fine.

 

Now the really problem is do I have a RW army or a DW army in the works? I have another thread about that here. Seems like I could go either way at this point but until I get all these models painted it doesn't matter. I've got time to ponder that question.

 

Thanks for the tips.

[SnakeChisler]

I always run with the champion means I can eat challenges if necessary, his sword is Poo though S5 and not even ap2 but he's 5 points and WS5

On a comparison against a Terminator squad your Ravenwing HQ squad is 235 points with 5 models with all the Toys hits at S5 in combat with rending can overwatch the pants off any unit that try charge it thanks to Twin Linked is T5 has 5+ FNP and allows a Librarian on a bike to ghost around making a pain of himself has Rad & Stasis grenades to either make sure they hit 1st or reduce T4 models toughness so there instant death to plasma. They can also bug out with hit and run with a standard banner for 15 points automatically.

Since changes to 7th Psykers are in some ways more important in that they produce a deny bubble and also with offensive spells especially the Nova ones being on a bike makes them extremely dangerous.

Even in a Deathwing Army I'd take the Psyker Biker HQ combo just gives you options, mine has a PFG so hit and run if caught in combat with 3 D6 lets you slingshot across the Battlefield to reinforce one of your squads.

With the changes in 7th to scoring there's no real requirement to take more than a couple of sniper squads or bear bones tactical squads then fill your army with whatever takes your fancy.

Thinking of putting together a 2 Psyker Biker + HQ squads with 2 deathwing Knight units for a bit of Knight mayhem

[Chaplain Lucifer]

My opinion would be going for a BK squad first because it can fill the roles of RWBK and Command squad without upgrades, and you can proxy if needed.Then with second box assemble the characters you need.

That way you don't have to  necessarily have a bike HQ if you want some plasma-bike goodness.

Of course it can also go the other way around and you can assemble the command squad and proxy them as normal RWBK squad. Just my 2 cents.

[Noxnoctis22]

Seems like a 6/half a dozen type of situation.

[SnakeChisler]

Depends on how you use them and there's no single right answer

 

People have styles they develop through playing, for some the Knights would be better

 

I play quite an aggressive style no fear no looking back and for that they need to be HQ with all the tools FNP etc. with a character who will smite my opponent back to the Zenos pit they came from.

 

A banner gives you +1 to combat resolution if the Darkshroud is nearby then that's +2 before you've even swung a pickaxe Stasis grenade makes sure you go 1st in most cases and your fearless

 

But I only run with 1 terminator squad generally and that's the DWK

 

The Biker HQ is the best way of carrying the Devastaion banner anyways

[Noxnoctis22]

It just dawned on me that I should make the first 3 bikes into RW BK. Without having a HQ on a bike I can't bring the RW Command Squad. I know the Comman Squad may be better than the Black Knights but as least I can run the 3 RW BKs first.

[SnakeChisler]

Make sure 1's a grenade launcher and use them to back up other units

 

Rad with -1 toughness will buff your bolter shooting no end

[Noxnoctis22]

Oh yeah, def going with a grenade launcher on one. Then just 2 more RW BKs for now, until I get the second box.

[Liberame]

Could do what I did, its expensive though.

 

Get the 3 Dark Vegeance bikers.

Get 3 boxes of Black Knights.

 

Convert the sgt from DV bikers into a librarian, thats the hq to unlock the command squad

Put the grenade launcher bits from the black knights box onto the remaining 2 bikers.

 

Assemble a banner bearer

Assemble an Apothecary

Assemble 5 black knights

Assemble a black knight with grenade launcher, proper.

Assemble a champion/master of hunt if you want, or another black knight.

 

This lets you have a 5 man command squad with banner, grenade launcher, apothecary, possible champion.

A librarian on bike to unlock said command squad, and a 6 man black knight squad with double grenade launcher.

 

If you wanted, you could turn one of the regular black knights into a master of the hunt model.

[march10k]

I would just do a RWAS, to be honest.  The RWCS and RWBK are killier, sure, but superscoring bikes?  Win.  And cheaper...The only real temptation is the rad grenades...

[SnakeChisler]

I would just do a RWAS, to be honest.  The RWCS and RWBK are killier, sure, but superscoring bikes?  Win.  And cheaper...The only real temptation is the rad grenades...

 

Its the Plasma / Combat combo that does it for me and buffing the RWAS with Rad is just the cherry on top of the cake

 

Also having the Talons Twin linked saves a lot of pain, I don't bother bufing the RWAS squads with power weapons or anything there really not very good at combat at all with 1 attack base, BK have 2 base + Pistol giving 4 on the charge at S5 + hammer of wrath.

[Noxnoctis22]

I would just do a RWAS, to be honest.  The RWCS and RWBK are killier, sure, but superscoring bikes?  Win.  And cheaper...The only real temptation is the rad grenades...

 

Well I'm already putting together the DA Battleforce, giving me a full RWAS, RW Attack Bike and Land Speeder. I just couldn't help myself with getting more bikes. For now I'm just going with the RWBK setup. Add the other bikes and HQ later.

 

I've got PLENTY to assemble and paint, no need to add even more to my hobby table.

[SnakeChisler]

I think that goes for all of us here, I've quite a bit unfinished

 

Being able to get the attack bike + speeder then combat squad is a real winner in my mind, 4 scoring units what's not to like