Multiple Banishments

[mcpolle]

Hi guys,

 

Was re- reading the rules book yesterday, and as far as I can see, you cannot benefit from the same blessing, but could not find where it says you cannot stack Maledictions,

 

Would this mean that you can multiple stack Banishment on the same unit??

 

Pollle

[Grand Master Caloth]

I believe it actually states that multiple banishment castings stack

[Reclusiarch Darius]

It states in the 'Banishment' power that multiples stack, but you cannot lower an invul save below 6+. 

[IndigoJack]

I'm actually fairly certain that banishment doesn't stack with itself. The wording on maledictions and stacking is:

 

Note that bonuses and penalties from different maledictions are always cumulative.

(Emphasis mine)

 

This implies that a maledictions isn't cumulative with itself, as it isn't a different one. Furthermore, Banishment itself says:

 

This is cumulative with any other modifiers to a Daemon's invulnerable save, but cannot make it worse than 6+

(Emphasis mine)

 

which also implies that a modifier must be from a different source to stack.

 

I'll give you that it's a bit ambiguous, as there's nothing explicitly stating that modifiers from the same malediction don't stack, but there's a good argument that they don't.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I think you're getting too pedantic about the wording. Maledictions do not have the same restrictions as Blessings. To accept your argument, I'd also have to accept that you can't 'Psychic Shriek' the same enemy unit with two different psykers. Witchfire likewise does not have the restrictions that Blessings do. 

 

The only time this is ever relevant anyway is against ScreamerStar, as that is the only Daemon target unit we'd need to stack 'Banishments' on. 

[Captain Coolpants]

I'd say it stacks, as nothing says that it can't stack with itself. The only restrictions I see is that the same squad cannot use the same power I.e banishment twice (1 or more independent characters within a squad included)

But say the independent characters left, then you could possible use the squad and the 2 independent psykers to use banishment on the same target. I thought daemons only had a 5+ daemon save anyway? What daemons would require numerous banishments? I'd rather use my dice for force and hammerhand.

[IndigoJack]

I think you're getting too pedantic about the wording. Maledictions do not have the same restrictions as Blessings.

Like I said, it's ambiguous. There's nothing explicitly denying it, but the implication is definitely there. At the very least, it's something that needs a FAQ or an errata to clear up the wording issues. I would never tell an opponent that he couldn't stack multiple instancs of the maledictions against one of my units, but I wouldn't do it to someone else, as I don't think that's what was intended.

 

To accept your argument, I'd also have to accept that you can't 'Psychic Shriek' the same enemy unit with two different psykers. Witchfire likewise does not have the restrictions that Blessings do.

That doesn't work, as psychic shriek doesn't apply an modifiers. I'm not saying you can't cast the same malediction on a unit already affected by it, I'm just saying that I don't think the modifiers are cumulative.

 

The only time this is ever relevant anyway is against ScreamerStar, as that is the only Daemon target unit we'd need to stack 'Banishments' on.

Not true. Cursed earth is an aura, so multiple units can be affected by it. One (or more, depending on how many units can cast it) can have forewarning while inside the cursed earth aura for a 3++, and a seperate unit can use the grimoire for a 2++ (possibly re-rollable).

 

 

I'd say it stacks, as nothing says that it can't stack with itself. The only restrictions I see is that the same squad cannot use the same power I.e banishment twice (1 or more independent characters within a squad included)

But say the independent characters left, then you could possible use the squad and the 2 independent psykers to use banishment on the same target. I thought daemons only had a 5+ daemon save anyway? What daemons would require numerous banishments? I'd rather use my dice for force and hammerhand.

There are multiple ways for a daemon to increase his invul save better than 5++, as I outlined above.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Like I said, it's ambiguous. There's nothing explicitly denying it, but the implication is definitely there. At the very least, it's something that needs a FAQ or an errata to clear up the wording issues. I would never tell an opponent that he couldn't stack multiple instancs of the maledictions against one of my units, but I wouldn't do it to someone else, as I don't think that's what was intended.

 

Well then why bother being devil's advocate then lol? 

That doesn't work, as psychic shriek doesn't apply an modifiers. I'm not saying you can't cast the same malediction on a unit already affected by it, I'm just saying that I don't think the modifiers are cumulative.

 

And yet, in the 'Banishment' power, it clearly states it cumulative. And there is no restriction around stacking maledictions from different psykers (only that you can only have a single copy from a single psyker, multiple psykers are fine)....so I'm really not seeing where the problem is. 

Not true. Cursed earth is an aura, so multiple units can be affected by it. One (or more, depending on how many units can cast it) can have forewarning while inside the cursed earth aura for a 3++, and a seperate unit can use the grimoire for a 2++ (possibly re-rollable).

 

Yeah but 'Cursed Earth' isn't the Primaris, so like with 'Invis', its dependent on rolling it. Which, I grant you, in a Daemon Factory list, is very likely (as they all roll on Malefic pretty much), but its still a D6 that can screw them. 

What daemons would require numerous banishments? I'd rather use my dice for force and hammerhand. 

 

Mainly Tzeentch and of course the ScreamerStar, as they typically have 3+ or 2+ invul. In that situation, you'd definitely want multiple -1's to A: stop the re-roll that Tzeentch Daemons get and B: reduce it so your nemesis weapons actually connect.