Forgeworld Question

[Brendaen]

Forgeworld has not updated their Errata/FAQ since last year. Does that mean that when I field my Hydra and Vendetta in my IA: Armored Battle Group, they still have their original rules (Hydra still negates Jink saves and the Vendetta still has a transport capacity of 12)?

 

 

[march10k]

If you're fielding everything IG out of the Armored Battle Group list, then you're fine. But if you're mixing and matching FW and C:AM rules depending on which version is the most beneficial for each model, then you're cheating.  And I would expect FW to bring those units in line with the main codex sooner rather than later.

 

/edit/

 

And I think most people would expect you to use the new (less beneficial) rules no matter what.

[librisrouge]

^ The Truth

 

It works for the armored list because the rules and points are built into the list itself. When C:AM uses the units though you're under obligation to use the most recent versions of a units rules.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Indeed, much like people using the Forge World rules for Broadsides to try and get Railguns back on them, it's illegal to do so as you're cherry-picking rules for an advantage.

 

Functionally, using old rules from an FW publication isn't any different to picking old rules from the last Codex that you like.

[WarriorFish]

march has the right of it; when it doubt use the "lesser" versions as opponents generally have fewer qualms about that.

[Brendaen]

My list is strictly a FW Armored Battle Company. I have 12 tanks and a Vulture Gunship, not a single infantry model in the list.

 

If I do use an allied detachment, I plan on using either my DA marines or Space Wolves. With the new rule set, I can put a unit of Space Marines in a Vendetta (until they update the FW FAQs, I can put ten Space Marines in the Vendetta). I've also been considering having a unit of Space Marines steal a Chimera from an Armored Fist unit on turn one and using it to get to objectives.

[Brendaen]

2000 Pts - IA: Armoured Battle Group Roster - 67th Armored Company

 

Colonel Palestine Drake

   1 Company Command Tank (Leman Russ Vanquisher); Vanquisher Battle Cannon; Heavy Bolter; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Artificer Hull; Beast Hunter Shells; Co-axial; Company Command Tank; Heavy Vehicle; Warlord)

 

Major Axel Paxton

   1 Company Command Tank (Leman Russ Vanquisher); Vanquisher Battle Cannon; Heavy Bolter; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Co-axial; Company Command Tank; Heavy Vehicle)

 

Tank Destroyer 

   1 Sgt. Drewer,

      1 Destroyer Tank Hunter; Heavy Laser Destroyer Array; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers)

 

1st Platoon

   1 MSgt Hoch,

      1 Leman Russ Battle Tank (Vehicle (Tank); Battle Cannon; Heavy Bolter; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Heavy Vehicle)

 

2nd Platoon

   1 Sgt Pabst,

      1 Leman Russ Battle Tank; Battle Cannon; Heavy Bolter; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Heavy Vehicle)

 

3rd Platoon

   1 Sgt. Krautten,

      1 Leman Russ Battle Tank; Battle Cannon; Heavy Bolter; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Heavy Vehicle)

 

4th Platoon

   1 Sgt. Manning,

      1 Leman Russ Battle Tank; Battle Cannon; Heavy Bolter; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Heavy Vehicle)

 

Fire Support

   1 Sgt. Bragg,

      1 Leman Russ Punisher; Punisher Gatling Cannon; Heavy Bolter; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Heavy Bolter Sponsons x2; Heavy Vehicle)

 

Siege Breaker

   1 Sgt Strauss,

      1 Thunderer; Demolisher Siege Cannon; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers)

 

Air Support- Alpha

   1 Lt. Maxim Voelhemer,

      1 Vulture Gunship; Vehicle (Flyer w/ Hover mode); Extra Armour; Searchlight; Infrared Targetting; Heavy Bolter; Twin-linked Punisher Cannon; Strafing Run; Vector Dancer; Skyfire)

 

Artillery Support Charlie

   1 SSgt Fruehauf,

      1 Medusa; Medusa Siege Cannon; Heavy Bolter; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Enclosed Crew Compartment)

 

Artillery Support Delta

   1 Sgt Eichmann,

      1 Medusa; Medusa Siege Cannon; Heavy Bolter; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Enclosed Crew Compartment)

 

Anti-Air Support

   1 Sgt. Drexel,

      1 Hydra Flak Tank; Auto-targeting System; Heavy Bolter; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Twin-Linked Hydra Autocannons x2)

[march10k]

I'm fine with that...use a FW list, use FW rules.

[CoffeeGrunt]

I'm trying out the Vulture from FW in a few games lately. T-L Punishers are hilarious.

[librisrouge]

I love that thing and am even considering getting one from Forgeworld since the model is pretty cool too. What I found is that it's pretty good AA cover as well since the number of shots will glance AV10-11 to death and smack FMCs to death. I pair mine with a Vendetta so something can tackle Helldrakes and Stormravens.

[march10k]

Meh, anything a vulture can do with volume of fire, vendettas do better with penetrating AP2 hits.

[librisrouge]

Except inflict enough wounds to FMCs to matter. Vendettas just don't cut it versus 'nids.

[PureFodder]

If it's all Armoured company, then that's fine. Remember that the armoured company now has higher points values for a lot of things compared to the IG codex.

It does get tricky though when you take certain units out of IA:1 for an IG list. For example, how many points is the Manticore with Manticore missiles?

 

On a side note, the vulture with punishers can do things a vendetta definitely can't. Obvious example being to flatten horde armies, murder MCs and to get cheeky rear-armour hits against vehicles. It also has a psychological impact on your opponent that goes beyond it's actual impact on the game. Throwing that many dice at someone really puts people off.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Meh, anything a vulture can do with volume of fire, vendettas do better with penetrating AP2 hits.

 

Vultures are 25pts cheaper, and can kill more than 3 models per turn if the Dice Gods will it.

[A D-B]

 

Meh, anything a vulture can do with volume of fire, vendettas do better with penetrating AP2 hits.

 

Vultures are 25pts cheaper, and can kill more than 3 models per turn if the Dice Gods will it.

 

 

And they look much better. Vultures are the coolest-looking 40K vehicle ever.

[WarriorFish]

The Rule of Cool is the most powerful in 40k, even the dice gods must bow to the power of cool.

[CoffeeGrunt]

 

 

Meh, anything a vulture can do with volume of fire, vendettas do better with penetrating AP2 hits.

 

Vultures are 25pts cheaper, and can kill more than 3 models per turn if the Dice Gods will it.

 

 

And they look much better. Vultures are the coolest-looking 40K vehicle ever.

 

 

Dat absurd engine design.

 

That said, I'm going third-party for my counts-as Vultures. Want something sleeker and more nimble.

[march10k]

I was specifically responding to the comment about vultures complementing vendettas for anti-air work. Naturally, I'm not stupid enough to believe that vendettas are good at removing bucketloads of gaunts!

 

That said, on the topic of TMCs, I've found Pasquisher to be good enough with the average of three wounds per turn that he and his squadron mate inflict against TMCs. I think a vendetta is going to be just fine in that role. If you expect a single model to reliably remove six T6 wounds or more per turn, you're in for some heartbreak!

[CoffeeGrunt]

My problem with the Vanquisher and Pask is, "why have one shot when you can have 20?"

[Brendaen]

Took the above list (minus the 2nd command tank, 2 LRBTs, and the Hydra to get it under 1500) up against 1500 points of Tau. Long story short, he only had 5 models left on the board by the end of turn 3 and I had only lost 2 hull points. He couldn't handle AV14. The guy was too used to playing against infantry heavy Chaos Space Marines lists, so he had alot of strength 5 weapons, but very few strength 8 or higher weapons.

 

Two things I learned: Crisis suits do not like multiple strength 10 pie plates landing on them and Beast Hunter Shells versus Riptide equals one very dead Riptide (he made it to turn 2).

[CoffeeGrunt]

Took the above list (minus the 2nd command tank, 2 LRBTs, and the Hydra to get it under 1500) up against 1500 points of Tau. Long story short, he only had 5 models left on the board by the end of turn 3 and I had only lost 2 hull points. He couldn't handle AV14. The guy was too used to playing against infantry heavy Chaos Space Marines lists, so he had alot of strength 5 weapons, but very few strength 8 or higher weapons.

 

Two things I learned: Crisis suits do not like multiple strength 10 pie plates landing on them and Beast Hunter Shells versus Riptide equals one very dead Riptide (he made it to turn 2).

 

Tau are an army that struggles massively with AV14, as the only weapons they have capable of touching it need to be within 9" to do real damage. The Railgun really is worthless in 7th.

[march10k]

 

Took the above list (minus the 2nd command tank, 2 LRBTs, and the Hydra to get it under 1500) up against 1500 points of Tau. Long story short, he only had 5 models left on the board by the end of turn 3 and I had only lost 2 hull points. He couldn't handle AV14. The guy was too used to playing against infantry heavy Chaos Space Marines lists, so he had alot of strength 5 weapons, but very few strength 8 or higher weapons.

 

Two things I learned: Crisis suits do not like multiple strength 10 pie plates landing on them and Beast Hunter Shells versus Riptide equals one very dead Riptide (he made it to turn 2).

 

Tau are an army that struggles massively with AV14, as the only weapons they have capable of touching it need to be within 9" to do real damage. The Railgun really is worthless in 7th.

 

...unless it's the railgun being wielded by Longstrike...then it's point and click to remove a russ.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Really? I've always found Longstrike to be pretty terrible for AT, as he simply doesn't get the job done with lucky rolls on the VDT.