Ulfast Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 I´m just restaring my daemons after long time playing other things and I hear all the time this over powerful screamerstar but what is it actually? A bunch of screamer I guess but then what? What makes it powerful and what models do you need? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294251-what-is-the-screamerstar/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Basically around 8 Screamers, 3-4 HoT on discs and Fateweaver. The HoT roll on Divination and one of them has a Grimoir. The basic idea is to have a HoT cast the 4++ on the unit and the Grimoir makes it into a 2++, rerollable since they are Daemons of Tzeentch. Fateweaver is there to reroll failed Grimoir. However, new psychic phase has made is less reliable and there are way better stars out there. Your unit lacks hit and run and thus will be tarpitted. Also, if Kairos goes down, the Star will crumble. My advice, make a star-less list. Redundancy and distribution of threats is key. Daemons have many other amazing lists. Screamer star was good for a short period of time in 6ed until people found better ones. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294251-what-is-the-screamerstar/#findComment-3756472 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDevourer Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Tenebris that is no longer the case. I believe you now roll on daemonology for the +1 inv aoe and summons + grimoire. Screamer still works fine allied into a csm mauler rush list as another threat. However, kairos is no longer needed in such a list due to the amount of other threats Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294251-what-is-the-screamerstar/#findComment-3756502 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornywingythingy Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Yeah, you now roll on malefic for the truly awesome cursed earth (and summoning), if you are running a CSM primary and get shrouding on your CSM Sorceror it can help when you fail the grimoire, invisibility too..... It's not as hot as the eldar beastpack list, since it lacks hit and run, but it's all kinds of awesome in a fast, aggressive CSM list. I'm thinking it's gonna be my tournie list for the season, early tests are going very well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294251-what-is-the-screamerstar/#findComment-3756551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 the problem with CSM primary is that you don't get both the heralds and kairos. Are you sure you don't mean daemons primary with allied csms? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294251-what-is-the-screamerstar/#findComment-3756592 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDevourer Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 You don t really need kairos anymore. With the nerf to fmc its not good to run him. Because you would have to threat overload on other fmc which are bad. So you can actually use the csm telepathy on the screamers if you should fail grimoire which makes the bomb good enough to be honest. I can't merit kairos in a list anymore. And csm primary is just for the mauler and spawn spam to create pressure. If your opponent decides to kill the screamers due to a failed grimoire, hell why not, still enough potential to deal enough damage in the list. The difference to last edition if that screamer stars used to be more or less the main threat. Running them with csm primary makes them less of a threat but still a useful tool for cracking tanks or tarpitting units, also their speed gives them good synergy with maulers and spawns. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294251-what-is-the-screamerstar/#findComment-3756620 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 I beg to differ. Kairos in a primary daemon list is still a top choice. The only FMC nerf was melee... so how does that affect Kairos anyway? The rerolling one dice a turn is darn strong because you can also influence the psychic tests and prevent perils. Rerolling Warp Storm is always handy and since FAQ he also has access to summoning. I run him in a Tzeentch heavy list and he treated me VERY well with the rerolls and 4 warp charges. As an ally he ain't that hot because half his benefits go out of the window. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294251-what-is-the-screamerstar/#findComment-3756644 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDevourer Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 But running a lone fmc is worse in term of pooling types of risks. Running kairos means you should really run additional fmc so he isn't a lone target. It's kind of like running only one vehicle. I'm not saying kairos is bad. I'm just saying he isn't mandatory like he was in 6th edition. There are ways to work around failed grimoire rolls now. And the prevalence of daemons just playing rush lists that don't synergize with kairos makes him a less optimal choice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294251-what-is-the-screamerstar/#findComment-3756666 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornywingythingy Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 I'd run CSM primary as fateweaver isn't great anymore, he really needs lots of warp charge to get the best from him, and I'd rather be chucking it into a CSM bike sorceror or horrors/heralds summoning. The fateweaver having malefic is contentious, and many tournaments are ruling the opposite (UK gt has faqed he doesn't have it, and banned be'lakor) and in terms of in your face threat, three maulers and two units of spawn with attendant lords or sorcerers backed by a screamerstar is threat overload. It synergises very well with CSM primary, less well demons primary as soul grinders, even with slaanesh lag behind. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294251-what-is-the-screamerstar/#findComment-3756679 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 I'm confused why they would ban belakor. If they have that much of a problem with invisibility they should just ban that power outright - or replace 7e telepathy with 6e telepathy wholesale. There was nothing wrong with 6e telepathy which needed fixing, and it was good for the game, with three reasonable counters to various death star builds. Now it has no death star counters, and the most abusive death star supporting power in the game. None of the changes to that discipline that were good for the game, apart from maybe the extended shriek range, which is at best neutral. Overall the whole discipline is less fun and less balanced. Anyway, apart from auto invis, belakor doesn't have that much going for him. And from your sentence it sounds like you were suggesting belakor has daemonology access? If you meant that, then you are mistaken. Check the rulebook's psychic phase chapter. A psyker like belakor whose unit entry specifies which powers they have does not generate any powers normally, regardless of what lores they would otherwise have access to. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294251-what-is-the-screamerstar/#findComment-3756685 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 But running a lone fmc is worse in term of pooling types of risks. Running kairos means you should really run additional fmc so he isn't a lone target. It's kind of like running only one vehicle. I'm not saying kairos is bad. I'm just saying he isn't mandatory like he was in 6th edition. There are ways to work around failed grimoire rolls now. And the prevalence of daemons just playing rush lists that don't synergize with kairos makes him a less optimal choice. With a full Screamer Star it's tough to get more FMC in there, but that's the reason I do not run a Screamer star and not only Kairos. He's excellent support but the killing is done by other, more threatening stuff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294251-what-is-the-screamerstar/#findComment-3756712 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornywingythingy Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 I'm confused why they would ban belakor. If they have that much of a problem with invisibility they should just ban that power outright - or replace 7e telepathy with 6e telepathy wholesale. There was nothing wrong with 6e telepathy which needed fixing, and it was good for the game, with three reasonable counters to various death star builds. Now it has no death star counters, and the most abusive death star supporting power in the game. None of the changes to that discipline that were good for the game, apart from maybe the extended shriek range, which is at best neutral. Overall the whole discipline is less fun and less balanced. Anyway, apart from auto invis, belakor doesn't have that much going for him. And from your sentence it sounds like you were suggesting belakor has daemonology access? If you meant that, then you are mistaken. Check the rulebook's psychic phase chapter. A psyker like belakor whose unit entry specifies which powers they have does not generate any powers normally, regardless of what lores they would otherwise have access to. Nope, has just been a massive knee jerk reaction by the gt team, they decided auto invisibility even after they nerfed it heavily (it's now ws1 and bs1 for it, they really changed the spell) is too powerful. Honestly it's a mess, and probably part of the reason the event is struggling to get players this year, I don't think I'm going to bother, I'd rather do a local gt that's less restrictive. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294251-what-is-the-screamerstar/#findComment-3757047 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheex Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 the problem with CSM primary is that you don't get both the heralds and kairos. Are you sure you don't mean daemons primary with allied csms? What about taking Daemons in a second CAD? Aside from the tournaments that disallow multiple CADs, of course. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294251-what-is-the-screamerstar/#findComment-3757163 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornywingythingy Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 the problem with CSM primary is that you don't get both the heralds and kairos. Are you sure you don't mean daemons primary with allied csms?What about taking Daemons in a second CAD? Aside from the tournaments that disallow multiple CADs, of course. That's the rub, even warhammer world events are restricting to one cad atm. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294251-what-is-the-screamerstar/#findComment-3757181 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Honestly though, why would you play CSM as a primary anyway. CSM is a weak codex and the advent of 7ed brought only a few improvements. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294251-what-is-the-screamerstar/#findComment-3757514 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornywingythingy Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Honestly though, why would you play CSM as a primary anyway. CSM is a weak codex and the advent of 7ed brought only a few improvements. Cheap unmarked level three sorcerers Spell familiars Nurgle spawn Cultists (since everything is scoring if you have a effective smash list with board control objective secured isn't the bees knees) Maulerfiends (in a mech heavy environment they rock) It's now been FAQed you can take 4 heralds as one hq in allied demons. Heralds are the best hq choice in demons right now. Frankly there's more things I'd spam in CSM than demons. Don't get me wrong, the CSM dex is terrible, and there's loads wrong with it, but the good units are golden. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294251-what-is-the-screamerstar/#findComment-3757545 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Okay, I'll buy that ;) Some units are great. Still, maybe it is just not my style, so I'll stay with my newly build pure Daemons :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294251-what-is-the-screamerstar/#findComment-3757558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Drake Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 If adding in Tzeentch Daemons do you think I am best going for: Tzeentch Herald (Disc, L3, Grimoire) Malefic Daemonology Tzeentch Herald (Disc, L3, Exalted Locus) Change Tzeentch Herald (Disc, L3) Divination 6 Sceamers 570 points & 9+D6 dice. or Tzeentch Herald (L3, Grimoire) Malefic Daemonology Tzeentch Herald (L3, Exalted Locus) Change Tzeentch Herald (L3) Divination 20 Horrors 600 points & 12+D6 dice (plus 2 units that can shoot S6 4D6 Flickering Fire) I'm leaning towards the foot unit but I'd like to know what you guys think? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294251-what-is-the-screamerstar/#findComment-3757621 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornywingythingy Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 I'd go for the screamers and disc riders cos mobility is king, you want your cursed earth in range to buff your combat units, and I'd still take two units of 11 horrors for warp charge generation. I have to admit I skipped the exalted locus for the portaglyph (more horrors!) and I'm finding witchfires not worth the bother of trying to cast them anymore. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294251-what-is-the-screamerstar/#findComment-3757825 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Drake Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Thanks, great advice. What's the problem with Witchfires? Do you also think the screamers & Tzherald discs synergise better with CSM allies (Spawn/Maulers/Bikes etc)? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294251-what-is-the-screamerstar/#findComment-3758879 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornywingythingy Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 You now have to chuck way too many dice at flickering fire or any of the others, and they are easier to block, say you are casting the wc3 flickering fire, you want 7 or 8 dice to really ensure success, and your perils risk goes up lots, for only average 14 s6 shots...... Yup, it synergises way better, can take out/hold up force weapon wielders better, has superior mobility, is almost auto win in relic if you go first, it's just flat better. Also more resistant to minstrike missile. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294251-what-is-the-screamerstar/#findComment-3758901 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Drake Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Great, well this is what I settled on to ally with my CSMs at 2000 points... Allies (Codex: Daemons) Tzeentch Herald (Disc, L3, Grimoire) Malefic Daemonology Tzeentch Herald (Disc, L3, Portaglyph) Malefic Daemonology Tzeentch Herald (Disc, L3) Divination 6 Sceamers Troops 15 Horrors 705 points My only issue, is it worth putting a Herald on Divination trying to get Forewarning? I know the answer is probably 'yes' but it's just that I've been doing that with my CSM Sorcerer with Telepathy & Invisibility & not getting it really sucks (last game with Telepathy against IG I literally couldn't cast anything as he was all mech) Foreboding and Perfect Timing look like a waste for Tzeentch Daemons, I could just accept that I'm 5++ (and hope the Grimoire goes well &/or that I get Cursed Earth) and then have another Herald on Daemonette/Horror summoning? Ignore that. On reflection Prescience and Misfortune make it worthwhile in an assault based CSM army. Forewarning is just gravy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294251-what-is-the-screamerstar/#findComment-3760696 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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