Stormwolf or Stormfang?

[knife&fork]

I think the gunship name is misleading. Even if you never use the transport capacity the stormwolf is the better gun platform by far, while costing you less. Thinking specifically about the TL-LC, 2*TL-MM config as skyhammer missiles are very underwhelming and you have the speed to get within melta range. 

 

We haven't seen the codex yet but marine flyers typically need to do 1 job above all else: shoot down other things that fly. 

VS monsters and flyers 'lance' is of pretty much zero concern. Twinlinked and turret mount is far more useful. 

 

Secondary use is tank hunting or killing monsters on the ground. 'Lance' will be useful against AV13-14 only. 

 

When will you ever use that large blast? It's 'only' AP3 and doesn't ignore cover. In fact it won't be able to get above buildings or an aegis defence line as well as the other flyers in the game due to it being mounted much lower to the ground. Check out how deep the mount for the flying stand is. 

 

Need to jink or take snap shots? It's the most common result on the damage table after all. 0 benefit from the destructor but with the stormwolf you'll have 4 TL shots which is still pretty dangerous. 

 

The list of (optimal) targets you want to point that destructor at is not very high. If you spend 230-ish pts on something just to kill a few marines then you are not spending your points well. From the looks of it you'll be able to pack enough AP2-3 firepower in your normal squads and long fangs will still be there even if they probably will get the rulebook 'split fire'.

[Sohail187]

I think the gunship name is misleading. Even if you never use the transport capacity the stormwolf is the better gun platform by far, while costing you less. Thinking specifically about the TL-LC, 2*TL-MM config as skyhammer missiles are very underwhelming and you have the speed to get within melta range. 

 

We haven't seen the codex yet but marine flyers typically need to do 1 job above all else: shoot down other things that fly. 

VS monsters and flyers 'lance' is of pretty much zero concern. Twinlinked and turret mount is far more useful. 

 

Secondary use is tank hunting or killing monsters on the ground. 'Lance' will be useful against AV13-14 only. 

 

When will you ever use that large blast? It's 'only' AP3 and doesn't ignore cover. In fact it won't be able to get above buildings or an aegis defence line as well as the other flyers in the game due to it being mounted much lower to the ground. Check out how deep the mount for the flying stand is. 

 

Need to jink or take snap shots? It's the most common result on the damage table after all. 0 benefit from the destructor but with the stormwolf you'll have 4 TL shots which is still pretty dangerous. 

 

The list of (optimal) targets you want to point that destructor at is not very high. If you spend 230-ish pts on something just to kill a few marines then you are not spending your points well. From the looks of it you'll be able to pack enough AP2-3 firepower in your normal squads and long fangs will still be there even if they probably will get the rulebook 'split fire'.

very decent argument... i was all for the stormfang... now u got me thinking is it worth buying the stormwolf. I really would love to avoid buying 2 of these straight off the bat. However the main point you made that got me re-thinking is that the frost weapon on the fang is 45 defree fire arc where as the wolf has 360.

[Brannrik]

for me the 360° degree and the assault vehicle are the main things, because even if i just have 6 grey hunter in there being able to jump out and charge stuff can cause a threat to certain armies/units.
I still somehow feel like I would prefere the Stormraven over these things... mainly because I rate its weapons with4 missiles more useful in 2 rounds of shooting and I doubt you will often get more turns with it to shoot stuff, unless the enemy jsut ignores it. Also transporting one of our (hopefully) lovely new dreads into cc seams apealing to me.

[knife&fork]

for me the 360° degree and the assault vehicle are the main things, because even if i just have 6 grey hunter in there being able to jump out and charge stuff can cause a threat to certain armies/units.

I still somehow feel like I would prefere the Stormraven over these things... mainly because I rate its weapons with4 missiles more useful in 2 rounds of shooting and I doubt you will often get more turns with it to shoot stuff, unless the enemy jsut ignores it. Also transporting one of our (hopefully) lovely new dreads into cc seams apealing to me.

Funny, I'm looking to replace the storm raven with a stormwolf. Those missiles are one of the main reasons as always having 4 twin linked High S, low AP shots easily makes up for lack of range.

The stormraven isn't very effective as a gunboat once the missiles are gone. Transporting a dread is a nice option to have but very situational. You could always ally?

[Brannrik]

for me the 360° degree and the assault vehicle are the main things, because even if i just have 6 grey hunter in there being able to jump out and charge stuff can cause a threat to certain armies/units.

I still somehow feel like I would prefere the Stormraven over these things... mainly because I rate its weapons with4 missiles more useful in 2 rounds of shooting and I doubt you will often get more turns with it to shoot stuff, unless the enemy jsut ignores it. Also transporting one of our (hopefully) lovely new dreads into cc seams apealing to me.

Funny, I'm looking to replace the storm raven with a stormwolf. Those missiles are one of the main reasons as always having 4 twin linked High S, low AP shots easily makes up for lack of range.

The stormraven isn't very effective as a gunboat once the missiles are gone. Transporting a dread is a nice option to have but very situational. You could always ally?

well ya depends on what you want it to do. I was considering it to come onto the board and shoot everything, next turn go to hover mode and deliver your cargo while shooting the rest of your missiles and your guns - because you most likely wont see another round anyway. But I guess that's more of an agressive approach to your delivering flyer

[knife&fork]

It's pretty much the same actually. I use it as Mephiston delivery and anti air. I'd rather pay the extra points for extra melta, twinlinked on everything and 2 extra shots every turn in case it survives. 

 

2 multi meltas, 1 lascannon and one frost cannon is better than 1 multi melta and 1 assault cannon + 4 S8 AP1 missiles. As a zooming flyer you max out on 4 weapons. In hover mode (when delivering cargo) you often want to move 6" before any disembarks, that means only 2 weapons at full BS.

You can of course fire the remaining missiles normally and use the TLMM and TLAC for snap shots. Machine spirit can also help offset this but over all I'd rather have the predictability of the stormwolf weaponry.

 

The changes to the damage table is part of it. If the raven could take a TL-LC instead of the TL-AC things would be different. Transporting dreads and skies of fury do come in handy from time to time.

[Squark]

Could anyone clarify for me how many skyhammer missile launchers the ships can take? The sponsons have the same number of missiles as the storm talons, which pays points for it instead of swapping out the TL-Heavy Bolter for free, but then again a Stormfang gets two sponsons.

 

@Knife and Fork: hovering fliers are fast skimmers, so if you're dropping someone off, you have to move 6" or less- and can thus fire every last weapon you have.

[knife&fork]

Could anyone clarify for me how many skyhammer missile launchers the ships can take? The sponsons have the same number of missiles as the storm talons, which pays points for it instead of swapping out the TL-Heavy Bolter for free, but then again a Stormfang gets two sponsons.

 

@Knife and Fork: hovering fliers are fast skimmers, so if you're dropping someone off, you have to move 6" or less- and can thus fire every last weapon you have.

 

It's a single skyhammer to replace the twin heavy bolters. 

 

Nice catch! I usually burn all 4 missiles on the turn I arrive before I'm forced to snap shot for whatever reason. 

[Iacton Qruze]

I'm planning on the stormwolf.  the range limit on the TL cannon and the multimeltas is mitigated by the speed of the flyer.  the stormfang's destructor not being TL is a turn-off for me, as well as the hull mount (which limits the arc of fire).

 

the stormwolf, by comparison, packs enough anti-tank power, and the turret cannon can easily machine spirit and fire off the side or rear of the ship at a unit pressing on your lines, or add another str 8 shot for punching through armor or maybe instant killing a MC.

[Chief Captain Redd]

I want to run three or four stormwolves in bigger games with hunters in each an attached WGBL in each as well.

[Haakon_Stormbrow]

why are we having this argument they have different roles.

 

The Stormwolf is a jack of all trades focussing on transport, it has 3 main types of configuration anti-troop (6 twin linked str5 ap 4 shots), anti-tank (2 twin linked ,multimelta shots) and anti-flyer (60" range 360 fire arc i believe, 3 str 7 shots) it always has a lascannon to for fill the air dominance roll.

 

The Stromfang's Roll is completely different, it is focused on battle field domination, because it is always flying in such a way that its guns point at ground troops, it requires a 360 degree anti aircraft defence, it gets this in the form of the Storm strike missiles, this give the ability to take out any enemy flyers on the table with their 72" range, and with the targeting system can be used to take out flyers approaching in the blind spot. They also assist ground troops by being able to target a monstrous creature just before an assault occurs, concussing it so the friendlies who assault it can get the upper hand.

It has the option to be built as a pure anti tank roll with 2 twin multi melts a twin lascannon and a Lance weapon, this same configuration is also useful against heavily armoured troops.

The other main configuration is the anti-troop focus, using the ordnance template predominantly, with twin heavy bolters for back up.

 

One thing you need to remember is this is basically a Vindicator that has power of the machine spirit and can move up to 36" and still shoot all its weapons.

The power of the machine spirit allows you to fire your normal weapons normally and then use the machine spirit on the ordnance weapon so it doesn't count as a snap fire and prevent the shot.

This weapons best potential will be in removing bike type units, an ordnance template on a squad of bikers or a unit of lightly armoured vehicles can be devastating to an opponent, loosing their manoeuvrability in a force can cripple their strategies and prevent objective securing.

 

I'd argue that although the Stormwolf has a great all round potential, the danger a flying vindicator with machine spirit poses your enemy will make it the focus of every unit in their army to bring it down, it is just such a huge threat, and if you have 60 points of scoring blood claws (5) hidden on board OMG this thing is a potential game changer.

In the hands of a tactician this thing can be used to:

• wipe out a bike unit preventing it claiming a far lying objective or getting in your deployment zone.... potential VP's
• Kill Land raider sized threats earning it's points back and gaining.... more VP's
• Provide an endgame Scoring unit.... more vp's

So in conclution:

The Stromwolf is a transport with a very very good offensive potential but unless it is fitted out with a sky hammer launcher it is limited to a 24" anti-aircraft defence.

The Stormfang is a ground warfare specialist, it is a huge threat to the enemies battle strategy and therefor a fire magnet, it has more potential to win a game though VP manipulation then any other vehicle in the game of 40k, It is a battle field controller, while it's live the enemy plays on your terms.

[Leif Bearclaw]

The Stromwolf is a transport with a very very good offensive potential but unless it is fitted out with a sky hammer launcher it is limited to a 24" anti-aircraft defence.

 

Is that really a problem though, given those 24" range guns are mounted on a flyer capable of hovering if needed? It shouyld have more than enough mobility to bring those guns top bear. I don't see the Stormwolf being out of range as a common scenario.

[Haakon_Stormbrow]

 

The Stromwolf is a transport with a very very good offensive potential but unless it is fitted out with a sky hammer launcher it is limited to a 24" anti-aircraft defence.

 

Is that really a problem though, given those 24" range guns are mounted on a flyer capable of hovering if needed? It shouyld have more than enough mobility to bring those guns top bear. I don't see the Stormwolf being out of range as a common scenario.

 

 

 

yes, we are talking about situations where both you and your enemy have flyers on the board, if i am playing against space wolves, as long as i stay out of your forward 45 degree arc and more than 24" away i can use my longer ranged weapons to pick you off from afar and you can never get to shoot back at me.

hence why you have the option to equip a sky hammer launcher, giving you 360 degree 60" range that threatens flyers.

 

the Stormfang comes standard with 72" 360 degree firing weapons they may be 1 shot but you have 2 meaning you can get a flyer hunting you off your tail very easily

the stormwolf is good for hunting flyers with its twin Las but if your opponent outmanoeuvres you you are in a world of hurt.

 

the easiest way to think of it, is the stormfang is like the millennium falcon when equipped with the skyhammer, and the stormwolf is like a x-wing with a large cargo hold attached.

 

 

Here is my review of the space wolf flyers:

 

Stormwolf stock:  Transport 10/10, Offense Heavy 3/10, Offensive Light 7/10, Defence v aircraft 3/10

Stormwolf Multi-meltas:  Transport 10/10, Offense Heavy 7/10, Offensive Light 3/10, Defence v aircraft 3/10

Stormwolf Skyhammer launcher:  Transport 10/10, Offense Heavy 4/10, Offensive Light 5/10, Defence v aircraft 7/10

 

Stormfang stock:  Transport 4/10, Offense Heavy 4/10, Offensive Light 10/10, Defence v aircraft 6/10

Stormfang Multi-meltas:  Transport 4/10, Offense Heavy 8/10, Offensive Light 7/10, Defence v aircraft 6/10

Stormfang Skyhammer launcher:  Transport 4/10, Offense Heavy 5/10, Offensive Light 8/10, Defence v aircraft 10/10

 

Stormfang stock + lascannons:  Transport 4/10, Offense Heavy 6/10, Offensive Light 10/10, Defence v aircraft 3/10

Stormfang Multi-meltas + lascannons:  Transport 4/10, Offense Heavy 10/10, Offensive Light 7/10, Defence v aircraft 3/10

Stormfang Skyhammer launcher + lascannons:  Transport 4/10, Offense Heavy 7/10, Offensive Light 8/10, Defence v aircraft 7/10

[Sohail187]

i think you got mixed up the stormfang and stormwolf buddy :p 

"quote"

the Stormfang comes standard with 72" 360 degree firing weapons they may be 1 shot but you have 2 meaning you can get a flyer hunting you off your tail very easily (thats the stormswolf)

 

You also mentioned * sky hammer launcher, giving you 360 degree 60" range that threatens flyers.* skyhammer missiles do not have 360c fire arc.

[Haakon_Stormbrow]

i think you got mixed up the stormfang and stormwolf buddy

"quote"

the Stormfang comes standard with 72" 360 degree firing weapons they may be 1 shot but you have 2 meaning you can get a flyer hunting you off your tail very easily (thats the stormswolf)

You also mentioned * sky hammer launcher, giving you 360 degree 60" range that threatens flyers.* skyhammer missiles do not have 360c fire arc.

nope i didn't mix them up, those missiles on the Stormfang are like 72" ranged hunter killer missiles last time i checked and hunter killers don't have a fire arc.

doesn't the skyhammer have 1 fire point on each side with 180 degrees of firing giving it 360 degree fire arc?

Stormfang has the missiles and the 24" ordnance weapon/lance weapon

Stormwolf has the large transport capacity and twin heavy Helfrost cannon

[Squark]

i think you got mixed up the stormfang and stormwolf buddy

"quote"

the Stormfang comes standard with 72" 360 degree firing weapons they may be 1 shot but you have 2 meaning you can get a flyer hunting you off your tail very easily (thats the stormswolf)

You also mentioned * sky hammer launcher, giving you 360 degree 60" range that threatens flyers.* skyhammer missiles do not have 360c fire arc.

nope i didn't mix them up, those missiles on the Stormfang are like 72" ranged hunter killer missiles last time i checked and hunter killers don't have a fire arc.

doesn't the skyhammer have 1 fire point on each side with 180 degrees of firing giving it 360 degree fire arc?

Stormfang has the missiles and the 24" ordnance weapon/lance weapon

Stormwolf has the large transport capacity and twin heavy Helfrost cannon

You don't quite have 360" LoS on Space Marine sponsons, although since the Skyhammer is on both sponsons hiding from it will be pretty difficult unless we're talking a land speeder.

Flier launched missiles are not hunter killer missiles. They have a 45" LoS and are launched from hardpoints on the vehicle.

[Haakon_Stormbrow]

in that case the storm fang is equipped with the missiles as a range advantage and the weapon system is probably better suited for apocalypse games.

 

however the other points are still valid, i will wait till i get my stormwolf and stormfang before i verify the arcs of the skyhammer, but i'd say due to the fact its one system but on 2 separate sponsons it's still designed to be an anti-aircraft weapon due to it's large fire arc.

 

 

Question for people, how does jinx and machine spirit work? does it mean i can jinx the flyer to get a 4+ save and then fire all weapons on the storm fang at BS 1 with re-rolls to hit for twin linked and then use the machine spirit to fire the Helfrost Destructor at full BS?

[Heimdall Skullcrusher]

How does skyfire and POTMS work? If you decide to shoot at an air target and a ground target does POTMS override the snapshot imposed by skyfire?

[Sohail187]

in that case the storm fang is equipped with the missiles as a range advantage and the weapon system is probably better suited for apocalypse games.

 

however the other points are still valid, i will wait till i get my stormwolf and stormfang before i verify the arcs of the skyhammer, but i'd say due to the fact its one system but on 2 separate sponsons it's still designed to be an anti-aircraft weapon due to it's large fire arc.

 

 

Question for people, how does jinx and machine spirit work? does it mean i can jinx the flyer to get a 4+ save and then fire all weapons on the storm fang at BS 1 with re-rolls to hit for twin linked and then use the machine spirit to fire the Helfrost Destructor at full BS?

In regards to your question about POTMS. YEs when you jinx and get your 4+ u can fire everything at BS following turn, however you can use POTMS as you said to fire one weapon of your choice at full bs.

[Rift Blade]

@ Stormbrow--No--when you jink ALL shots are snap fire so the POMS fire would still be BS 1 but you still can target something different.

 

@Skullcrusher-I believe even with POMS, you can only fire in Skyfire mode or at Ground targets for both. Can't do one & one.

 

Double check this people please. I believe these were FAQD. I remember some of the boys at the shop discussing this lately so I could be wrong.

[Castellan Michael]

I think the gunship name is misleading. Even if you never use the transport capacity the stormwolf is the better gun platform by far, while costing you less. Thinking specifically about the TL-LC, 2*TL-MM config as skyhammer missiles are very underwhelming and you have the speed to get within melta range. 

 

We haven't seen the codex yet but marine flyers typically need to do 1 job above all else: shoot down other things that fly. 

VS monsters and flyers 'lance' is of pretty much zero concern. Twinlinked and turret mount is far more useful. 

 

Secondary use is tank hunting or killing monsters on the ground. 'Lance' will be useful against AV13-14 only. 

 

When will you ever use that large blast? It's 'only' AP3 and doesn't ignore cover. In fact it won't be able to get above buildings or an aegis defence line as well as the other flyers in the game due to it being mounted much lower to the ground. Check out how deep the mount for the flying stand is. 

 

Need to jink or take snap shots? It's the most common result on the damage table after all. 0 benefit from the destructor but with the stormwolf you'll have 4 TL shots which is still pretty dangerous. 

 

The list of (optimal) targets you want to point that destructor at is not very high. If you spend 230-ish pts on something just to kill a few marines then you are not spending your points well. From the looks of it you'll be able to pack enough AP2-3 firepower in your normal squads and long fangs will still be there even if they probably will get the rulebook 'split fire'.

Completely agree with your perspective on the Stormfang. The Stormwolf looks to be the better vehicle, gives you late game objective grabbers (who can assault out of it), good anti-air weapon loadout, as well as the cheaper points cost.

[JCarter]

My experience with flying transports (IG, GK) leads me to prefer a gunship every time. Excellent anti-air, great anti armor, and no need to set it down in a hover to lose it to the concentrated fire of anyone who can hurt 12 armor at full ballistic skill. If you want a small squad in reserve, put an iron priest into the gunship and repair it on the fly.

[Squark]

My experience with flying transports (IG, GK) leads me to prefer a gunship every time. Excellent anti-air, great anti armor, and no need to set it down in a hover to lose it to the concentrated fire of anyone who can hurt 12 armor at full ballistic skill. If you want a small squad in reserve, put an iron priest into the gunship and repair it on the fly.

The thing is, the free lascannon and turret mount make the stormwolf better anti-air- being able to fit, say, a pack of ten blood claws is just a bonus.

[Iacton Qruze]

@ Stormbrow--No--when you jink ALL shots are snap fire so the POMS fire would still be BS 1 but you still can target something different.

 

@Skullcrusher-I believe even with POMS, you can only fire in Skyfire mode or at Ground targets for both. Can't do one & one.

 

Double check this people please. I believe these were FAQD. I remember some of the boys at the shop discussing this lately so I could be wrong.

 

POTMS says one more than normal can be fired at full bs.  jink makes it to where the number of normal shots fired is 0, so +1 would be 1.  since POTMS is a codex rule that more specifically elaborates on a brb rule situation, it would take effect and let you fire one weapon at full when you jink.

[skeletoro]

Yeah I think 10 bloodclaws, if 12 points each, would be a really smart way to fill a Stormwolf. That's a very functional, very cheap unit that makes great use of the assault ramp. And it makes the flier ObSec (or outflanking on a 4+ which might help with manoeuvrability I guess?)