A D-B Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 If the NL story is a sequel to Prince of Crows, which I think was rumoured a little while back, then that must be ADBs contribution. I'm sure I heard somewhere that the Wolves story was their side of the space battle with AL (Alaxxes?) and that the AL side of it would come later, but the blurb for this book mentions a Wolf Pack on a mission from Russ so that doesn't look like its true. Not sure about the others. Narek would be a good story but he's currently indisposed. Grammaticus is in Cabal jail at the moment I think, Damon Pryantis maybe? Although I can't see why the would be sent after a traitor Primarch. Aaron's words were something along the lines of; "And that's a pack of wolves sent to Terra to carry out a mission they'll never complete." Seems pretty conclusive to me brother. He has however recently completed an audio drama about Sevatar which I suspect will tie into the new NL story. These things above are all true. Well, the Wolf bits, anyway. No comment on the NL stuff, but they're an insanely popular Legion and I don't reserve them for myself or my Sev-based plots. No real spoilers below - this is all stuff I said at the Weekender, to various folks who asked: I've not been the biggest fan of the watch pack idea in the past, and I wanted to do two things with it. Firstly, getting into it rather than dismissing it; to cheer the hell up and see what I could dig about the concept instead of avoiding it. And it worked - which goes to show you, saying "Yes" is often a wiser and more cooperative move with a better endgame than immediately saying "No". And secondly, doing that by showing it from a completely new angle. Not necessarily one where the Wolves (or even Russ) are all proud and pumped up to be doing it, for... several reasons. Part of this involved giving the idea itself more context, rather than what it simply appears to be on the surface. I hope I've done that. Plus, at last, I got to write about the Space Wolves from the Space Wolves' perspective, setting up Howl of the Hearthworld as major characters in Master of Mankind. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294301-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3759050 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrafficCustodes Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Including 'Brotherhood Of The Storm' in 'Legacies Of Betrayal'... that kind of bums me out. I mean, that's a fantastic novella, don't get me wrong, but it's already widely available as a standalone purchase. Jamming it in a story collection seems kind of... well, a waste of space. It's not like 'Raven's Flight' appearing in 'Shadows Of Treachery'... I mean, that wasn't available in print before... people can get 'BotS' already in hardback or ebook. I feel this would be a somewhat unprecedented (and disappointing) move on BL's part. I would also say I personally don't feel (without getting into spoilers) that the story of 'BotS' really qualifies to be in a collection called 'Legacies Of Betrayal', especially not one with that cover. These Amazon descriptions don't always turn out completely accurate, though... (Yeah, I'm grasping at straws.) On topic, the BL site says 'Death And Defiance' will be £15, which is the price of the hardback novellas once they become widely available. I'd assume that 'D+D' is going to be novella-length, 120 or so pages, and those 5 short stories will be 'normal' short story length. I doubt it'll be 5 full novellas, that'd make it more in the £20-£25 region. Of course, I'm only assuming this based on the cost, I may be totally wrong. ...Aaron, as someone who personally always liked the 'watchpack' idea I'm glad to see you've come around to it and I look forward to reading your take on this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294301-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3762397 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artein Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 I believe that they want to put BotS into a mass market paperback (the small one). I'm fine with it because I'm not buying anything in a different format from HH. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294301-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3762555 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molokai Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 For someone who doesnt own BotS im glad theyre including it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294301-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3762557 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praetor of Calth Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Heard a tidbit today that the assassin story is about Kell. Looks like the old vindicare is going for a 2nd attempt at Horus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294301-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3762835 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrafficCustodes Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 If they're keen to put novellas in mass market paperback format, wouldn't it make more sense to put, say, the first four or five into one volume, rather than mix them up with other stuff...? Since the kind of people who buy novellas seem to buy all of them... Don't get it twisted, I'll still buy this collection for sure. And I will enjoy reading that novella again. I just hope the other 280 or so pages of that collection bring some pretty astounding stuff. I'd actually quite like it if they put some of the e-book only releases in there, like 'Riven' or 'Forgotten Sons'. Let me read those stories stuff on a page, I don't want to stare at my computer when I'm absorbing HH knowledge. Interesting to hear there might be a Kell story incoming. I wasn't clamouring for any further pickups from the 'Nemesis' storyline, but I don't think it'd be impossible to convince me this is a good idea. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294301-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3762922 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterofMankind Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 So black library revealed what the 5 stories are about. > Imperfect. by Nick Kyme. A simple game of Regicide between Fulgrim and Ferrus Manus is far more than it seems Since the cover has a daemonic fulgrim I'm guessing it isn't an actual chess game but just fulgrim going crazy even more crazy than he was before. Nick Kyme writing it doesn't excite me very much >Howl of theHearthworld. by Aaron Dembski-Bowden. A Space Wolves pack rails at being sent back to Terra to watch over Rogal Dorn. Another watch pack story. Joy. I am interested however in how ADB tackles heresy era SW >A Safe and Shadowed Place. by Guy Haley. Seeking refuge, the remnants of the Night Lords fleet stumble across Imperium Secundus. Likely one of the six great companies that sevatar split the NL into. I've never read a guy Haley story before so it should be interesting >Virtues of the Sons. by Andy Smillie · Amit duels Khârn and Azkaellon faces Lucius as Sanguinius's chosen sons explore the twin aspects of their nature. Is this story set during the battle of terra? Because the only remaining theory I have is that it's some honor duel BEFORE the heresy >Gunsight. by James Swallow. An Assassin lurks on board the Vengeful Spirit. His target? Warmaster Horus himself. Just no. We've already had an assassin story, and it wasn't interesting because spoilers, Horus doesn't die till terra,and he won't die this time Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294301-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3786920 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Looking forward to seeing some pre-Heresy Azkaellon. I have been hoping to see him in a better light than he was given in Fear to Tread. @MasterofMankind: About your Gunsight statement, it's all about how the story plays out. If the fact that we already know how it ends means it lacks anything of interest, then the whole Horus Heresy series was dead in the water from the beginning. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294301-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3786933 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelPaladin Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I'm super excited to see how Andy Smillie tackles Heresy Era Blood Angels. His 40k Flesh Tearers are brutal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294301-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3786980 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Malcador put a Wolf watchpack on Rogal Dorn. Rogal. Dorn. Rogal Dorn. ROGAL DORN! Sigilite. Stahp. Wut r u doing? Plz stahp. U r drunk. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294301-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3787015 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 At least it's got an A DB story in it. Though the 'deep thoughts in the dueling pits' is rapidly becoming a trope that was cool at first, and becoming lame as more and more authors use it for exposition and setting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294301-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3787019 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterofMankind Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Malcador put a Wolf watchpack on Rogal Dorn. Rogal. Dorn. Rogal Dorn. ROGAL DORN! Sigilite. Stahp. Wut r u doing? Plz stahp. U r drunk. Isn't that the same Malcador that wanted Russ to destroy Cthonia just to piss of Horus? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294301-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3787023 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Malcador put a Wolf watchpack on Rogal Dorn. Rogal. Dorn. Rogal Dorn. ROGAL DORN! Sigilite. Stahp. Wut r u doing? Plz stahp. U r drunk. I really want this piece of work now to be The Best Thing Ever and want to watch you eat your words :P I Looooove irony. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294301-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3787025 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterofMankind Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 @depthcharge12 I think what Wade was saying was that it's stupid to put a wolf pack on the guy in charge of your defences because if he goes traitor you're already screwed Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294301-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3787028 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 It's an A DB story and you guys are worried he's gonna :cuss it up? Where have you been since 2009? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294301-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3787031 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterofMankind Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 It's an A DB story and you guys are worried he's gonna it up? Where have you been since 2009? I have no doubt that ADB will nail it. I just think the wolf pack bit has been overdone Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294301-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3787032 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I just hope the story ends with Rogal picking up Malcador by the scruff of his neck, and telling him "The next time you sic your dogs on me, I'm gonna finish what Lorgar started." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294301-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3787033 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 And what Depthcharge is saying is that he wants the story to be so good as to make that "problem" a non-issue. And hey, it's got one of the few authors I would trust to do just that as a matter of course. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294301-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3787034 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I just hope the story ends with Rogal picking up Malcador by the scruff of his neck, and telling him "The next time you sic your dogs on me, I'm gonna finish what Lorgar started." While holding him over the edge of the battlements. I'd put money on a Sigismund v Space Wolf argument too. That'll be awesome. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294301-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3787035 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I just hope the story ends with Rogal picking up Malcador by the scruff of his neck, and telling him "The next time you sic your dogs on me, I'm gonna finish what Lorgar started."While holding him over the edge of the battlements. I'd put money on a Sigismund v Space Wolf argument too. That'll be awesome. Hngh. Damn you for revealing something I need. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294301-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3787037 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 And what Depthcharge is saying is that he wants the story to be so good as to make that "problem" a non-issue. And hey, it's got one of the few authors I would trust to do just that as a matter of course. Indeed. ADB has that rare talent of turning thoughts around on certain factions. I bet you it will be *so* cool that you all make a Space Wolf Legion army :P (I admit my distaste for them, but that my be my bias for liking Dark Angels, World Eaters, and Thousand Sons) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294301-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3787068 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I will never make a Space Wolf army. Mostly because I don't like Loyalists as a matter of pride. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294301-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3787076 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrafficCustodes Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 So black library revealed what the 5 stories are about. > Imperfect. by Nick Kyme. A simple game of Regicide between Fulgrim and Ferrus Manus is far more than it seems Since the cover has a daemonic fulgrim I'm guessing it isn't an actual chess game but just fulgrim going crazy even more crazy than he was before. Nick Kyme writing it doesn't excite me very much >Howl of theHearthworld. by Aaron Dembski-Bowden. A Space Wolves pack rails at being sent back to Terra to watch over Rogal Dorn. Another watch pack story. Joy. I am interested however in how ADB tackles heresy era SW >A Safe and Shadowed Place. by Guy Haley. Seeking refuge, the remnants of the Night Lords fleet stumble across Imperium Secundus. Likely one of the six great companies that sevatar split the NL into. I've never read a guy Haley story before so it should be interesting >Virtues of the Sons. by Andy Smillie · Amit duels Khârn and Azkaellon faces Lucius as Sanguinius's chosen sons explore the twin aspects of their nature. Is this story set during the battle of terra? Because the only remaining theory I have is that it's some honor duel BEFORE the heresy >Gunsight. by James Swallow. An Assassin lurks on board the Vengeful Spirit. His target? Warmaster Horus himself. Just no. We've already had an assassin story, and it wasn't interesting because spoilers, Horus doesn't die till terra,and he won't die this time I'm looking forward to this a lot. This has some really good authors (well, I haven't read any Andy Smilie before, but on Flesh Tearers, I understand he knows what he's talking about...) Just a thought, maybe Nick Kyme is better at these shorter stories than people give him credit for? While I am not crazy about 'Vulkan Lives', I liked 'Censure' a lot, and the short story 'Phoenician' (also about Manus and Fulgrim) was really good. I am optimistic about this 'regicide' game. It may be a crazy hallucination... but it also might have some pre-Heresy flashbacks to Ferrus and Fulgrim larking about. When you think about it, we haven't had that much about Fulgrim and Ferrus' relationship, considering they supposedly had one of the closest friendships in the entire brotherhood of Primarchs. Even the five billion pages of 'Fulgrim' don't dwell on it that long... With 'Phoenician' and now this, could it be that Nick's taking over the Emperor's Children from Graham? Seems unlikely, but not impossible. MasterofMankind, Aaron kind of did tackle HH era Wolves, in 'Betrayer'. That was "only" a battle scene (well, it was a pretty significant one, with a fair amount of talking as well), but I thought it was a great portrayal of them. Will be interesting to see how they interact with the Fists (and Malcador?). The Guy Haley story, I don't have much to say about. That's a strand of the story I've wanted to see more on for a while, and Guy seems to be exactly the kind of writer they should be adding to the HH team. Could possibly tie in to Kurze's situation at the end of 'Unremembered Empire'? I like Jim Swallow's writing, especially his short stories, and I think they've been getting better and better. Assume this'll be Kell, considering the ending of 'Nemesis'. I agree with Cormac Airt, it's not always the destination that matters, it's how we get there. We know the assassin won't take down Horus, but we might learn something new about the Sons Of Horus, or even the Primarch himself. And hey, anyone can get got in the HH universe (with some notable exceptions). Who's to say a few high-ranking SoH won't get knocked off? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294301-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3787187 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 See, on the one hand, I get the in-universe logic behind it, if Horus and the XVI could go bad, anyone can. So you watch everyone. Except the Space Wolves. Who are apparently loyal beyond reproach and to be trusted above every Legion, even though their last major action was crushing a loyal Legion on Horus's orders. ;) Secondly...I can understand sending Wolves to the Legions way out at the edge of the Imperium...but the Fists are ON TERRA. What are the Wolves going to catch that the Custodes, Sisters of Silence, Black Sentinels, etc would have missed? It's only because this an ADB project that I have not already climbed atop my Wailing Rock and already begun declaring that this is THE END OF 40K 30K, REPENT! while beating my breast and wearing sackcloth and ashes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294301-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3787541 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Black Sentinels? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294301-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3787565 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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