Brother Captain Anonymous Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Hi, I'm a new user here. I'm just starting 40k, and I've chosen Grey Knights as my first army. Besides the codex, can anyone suggest some good first purchases? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294349-starting-grey-knightshelp-needed/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoJack Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 I'd start with whatever you think is cool (be it models or rules). Work those units into a 750pt list and start getting some games in. As you play larger and larger games, look at units that you think are under performing and remove them. Then, add new units to shore up weaknesses you've encountered (anti-heavy tank, anti-infantry, anti-air, etc). There are a lot of ways to play Grey Knights and the best way to find the play style that suits you is to just throw yourself into it and find out what works and what doesn't. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294349-starting-grey-knightshelp-needed/#findComment-3758689 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dread Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Welcome Brother Captain Anonymous. Like what IndigoJack said and with my add, chose a warlord you like and 2 troop choices and go from there. As he said, lots of choices even tho the model selection is small, i.e. regular box sets make 7-8 different choices to build as well as the termies for paladins. My main heavy support choice is a Dread Knight, just the right feel for me in my GK. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294349-starting-grey-knightshelp-needed/#findComment-3758749 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Hi, I'm a new user here. I'm just starting 40k, and I've chosen Grey Knights as my first army. Besides the codex, can anyone suggest some good first purchases? - Coteaz (no seriously) - Dreadknight (two if you can, but at least 1) - 2x Terminator boxes (this gives you extras for modelling HQ's choices like Grandmasters and Librarians as well) - 4x Power-armoured boxes (preferably more, although it will depend on how many actual Knights you need) That should give you a solid core of models to work with, and experiment with different squads and lists. Beyond that; - 2x Dreads (very much a personal choice these days, but they still do good work) - Stormraven (again, your call, but it is still one of the strongest Flyers around and does a lot of work) - Henchmen (which basically is Guardsmen boxes, maybe Cultists if you're up for a bit of kitbashing) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294349-starting-grey-knightshelp-needed/#findComment-3758849 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 I'd keep it simple. 1 squad power armoured knights. 1 squad terminators. And a HQ you think is cool. That way, you can get a taste of both troops, and that way you could easily upgrade them to purifiers/interceptors/paladins without having to buy new stuffs because you already have the models (as all grey knights are the same 2 models, Terminators or power armour) You don't want to commit and buy loads if it turns out you don't actually like how they play. Might even be better off proxying whole armies and trying everything with friends before you buy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294349-starting-grey-knightshelp-needed/#findComment-3758916 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Anonymous Posted July 29, 2014 Author Share Posted July 29, 2014 Since the new codex is supposed to come out after Space Wolves, would it be better just to wait? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294349-starting-grey-knightshelp-needed/#findComment-3759000 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Since the new codex is supposed to come out after Space Wolves, would it be better just to wait? No, and here is why; Our Terminators won't get magically better, because Riptides still exist (and thus you'll never need more than 10 normally) Our power-armoured specialists are probably going to remain largely the same, and thus form the core strength of your list (hence the need for 20-30, 40 ideally) Henchmen will probably get removed, but you can still Ally them, and they're still amazing cheap utility to bolster your forces Dreads will still be only okay, due to Hull Points still existing Dreadknights, even if they get nerfed, will remain our only real Heavy Support option that still scares people Coteaz will probably go (as will all the Inquisitors), but he's still exactly the same in the Inq codex and still awesome, as are normal Inquisitors, so just Ally them The shopping list I mentioned earlier will still cover all our power units, and provide you with the models necessary to construct a few different builds. I'd keep it simple. 1 squad power armoured knights. 1 squad terminators. And a HQ you think is cool. Except even at 1000 points, that lineup doesn't do jack. You need your support units, namely Dreadknight and either Dreads or Henchmen for long-range firepower (ie over 24" shooting). Our good HQ's have largely improved overall, but our duds are even more deadweight than before (Crowe is literally useless, Bro Champs do nothing worthwhile now, Bro Captains remain pointless, Stern is still worthless etc). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294349-starting-grey-knightshelp-needed/#findComment-3759045 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Anonymous Posted July 29, 2014 Author Share Posted July 29, 2014 Should I give strike squads one pyscannon per 5 man? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294349-starting-grey-knightshelp-needed/#findComment-3759066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshman Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 I believe you want at least 1 per squad, regardless of size. Having the option to take 2 at 10man is just even better. With the exception of henchmen / monkeys, we lack real anti-armor, pyscannons increase our chances of popping armor, and improves our anti-infantry also. Others can feel free to expand / correct what I have said, as I am no expert. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294349-starting-grey-knightshelp-needed/#findComment-3759258 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Anonymous Posted July 29, 2014 Author Share Posted July 29, 2014 I'm trying to make a lists of first purchases that would still be safe after the new codex. Maybe a Brother Captain, a librarian, Coteaz, and a few Strike Squads? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294349-starting-grey-knightshelp-needed/#findComment-3759331 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrick Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Hi, my name is Landrick, and I am an Inteceptor addict. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294349-starting-grey-knightshelp-needed/#findComment-3759578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Should I give strike squads one pyscannon per 5 man? Yep. On every squad bar Interceptors, psycannon is your go-to weapon choice. Incinerators generally shine on Dreadknights and Interceptors only, as they're our only units fast enough to quickly close and burninate. Everyone else is better off camping at 24" and gunning down the enemy with massed fire. I'm trying to make a lists of first purchases that would still be safe after the new codex. Maybe a Brother Captain, a librarian, Coteaz, and a few Strike Squads? There are no official models for our generic HQ's, except for the Terminator Libby (which is just a normal Marine one painted out colours). You'll want a Grandmaster (just mod a Grey Knight Terminator model), a Terminator Librarian and Coteaz for HQ. They'll still be around in the new codex (Coteaz as an Ally but whatever), and they will remain our most powerful HQ options. Strikes have lost a lot of value due to 7th changes, losing 'Warp Quake' has robbed them of a lot of their former strength. Purifiers are a better investment, but we shall see if price increases change that picture. I'd get 30 power armoured models as a minimum, so you can make either unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294349-starting-grey-knightshelp-needed/#findComment-3759657 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Anonymous Posted July 30, 2014 Author Share Posted July 30, 2014 I saw on the Grey Knights 7th ed. primer that Strike Squads really aren't worth taking as troops. Do you agree with this? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294349-starting-grey-knightshelp-needed/#findComment-3760251 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 I saw on the Grey Knights 7th ed. primer that Strike Squads really aren't worth taking as troops. Do you agree with this? I wrote it, so yes :P . In more detail; - Force Org is kinda irrelevant these days, now that everything can score - Strikes lost 'Warp Quake' - Purifiers bring more psycannon and melee ability for less points (overall), as well as having 'Cleansing Flame' still available - Fearless > ATSKNF - Henchmen and Terminators each offer distinct advantages over Strikes as 'Objective Secured' units. Henchmen have better firepower and much lower cost, Terminators are much more durable to non-AP2 and can take on most things in melee just fine, plus Relentless psycannon. Strikes are by no means 'bad', they're just eclipsed by better stuff we already have. Points are always at a premium for Knights, so getting the most out of our limited manpower is always crucial. Pound for pound, Purifiers deliver far more as an investment than Strikes can ever hope to match. When the new codex drops and Purifiers go up in price, that may change, but for now 4pts to upgrade to a Purifier is a complete no brainer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294349-starting-grey-knightshelp-needed/#findComment-3760291 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Anonymous Posted July 30, 2014 Author Share Posted July 30, 2014 I saw on the Grey Knights 7th ed. primer that Strike Squads really aren't worth taking as troops. Do you agree with this? I wrote it, so yes . In more detail; - Force Org is kinda irrelevant these days, now that everything can score - Strikes lost 'Warp Quake' - Purifiers bring more psycannon and melee ability for less points (overall), as well as having 'Cleansing Flame' still available - Fearless > ATSKNF - Henchmen and Terminators each offer distinct advantages over Strikes as 'Objective Secured' units. Henchmen have better firepower and much lower cost, Terminators are much more durable to non-AP2 and can take on most things in melee just fine, plus Relentless psycannon. Strikes are by no means 'bad', they're just eclipsed by better stuff we already have. Points are always at a premium for Knights, so getting the most out of our limited manpower is always crucial. Pound for pound, Purifiers deliver far more as an investment than Strikes can ever hope to match. When the new codex drops and Purifiers go up in price, that may change, but for now 4pts to upgrade to a Purifier is a complete no brainer. A theme with the newer codices is a reduction in points cost for troops, so they might go down in points. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294349-starting-grey-knightshelp-needed/#findComment-3760391 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deamon Wolf Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 i have never been a strike squad fan but with 7th ed i have relooked at them and feel that even though they are squishy compaired to my termi army they are cheep and faster than termis if you put them in a rhino so if i were you 1 look at a decent HQ , Libby or BH Cap 2 look at your prefered type of play noting that with malstrom fast manuvering units are better so you can capture objectives 3 as stated previously go with what looks and feels cool you can work the rest around it good luck and keep asking questions Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294349-starting-grey-knightshelp-needed/#findComment-3760448 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 A theme with the newer codices is a reduction in points cost for troops, so they might go down in points. Purifiers will be bumped up to 25ppm, I can practically guarantee it. GW reduce the price of terrible infantry so people will buy them, they won't reduce Knights (as our infantry is overall quite strong and cost-efficient, barring certain overpriced or useless wargear options). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294349-starting-grey-knightshelp-needed/#findComment-3760795 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I agree that purifiers will be bumped up in cost. But I think they'll get bumped up more, maybe 30pts to emphasise how rare they are. Plus they are our only power armoured elites that have extra attacks, fearless and a kick ass power. Unless they decrease the price of strike squads, because purifiers would probably stay around 25pts then. But as of now, strike squads aren't that bad, the lack of low ap shooting is sucky, but we get 2 shots per model at 24".and as tau have proven, spamming strength 5 shots is far better than having a few low ap shots lol. Plus if they do end up in combat, hammerhand plus ap3 swords is awesome (unless you're fighting against similar ws enemies because you'll miss most of the time....) But as of now, purifiers do that + extra cc damage. So use them as much as you can haha. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294349-starting-grey-knightshelp-needed/#findComment-3761177 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I agree that purifiers will be bumped up in cost. But I think they'll get bumped up more, maybe 30pts to emphasise how rare they are. Plus they are our only power armoured elites that have extra attacks, fearless and a kick ass power. Unless they decrease the price of strike squads, because purifiers would probably stay around 25pts then. 30 points would make them unplayable. They are exactly as tough as a 14pt Tactical Marine to ranged attacks (melee a different story). Terminators are unplayable at 40ppm, which speaks volumes about how GW continually overprices Marines. 25 is what I'm guessing. No idea what they'll do with nemesis upgrade prices though. Psycannons will probably go up to 20pts But as of now, strike squads aren't that bad, the lack of low ap shooting is sucky, but we get 2 shots per model at 24".and as tau have proven, spamming strength 5 shots is far better than having a few low ap shots lol. Plus if they do end up in combat, hammerhand plus ap3 swords is awesome (unless you're fighting against similar ws enemies because you'll miss most of the time....) Lacking low AP isn't why Strikes are collecting dust. They're on the shelf because Purifiers do everything they do better for the same points investment. 24" is nothing, any decent list will outrange you easily, on mobile platforms commonly as well. Tau are not winning tournaments and dominating local games with Fire Warrior spam. They're dominating with Riptides, their tanks, Broadsides and Crisis. S5 spam is how they keep horde lists in check, and how they break Marines. But its not even their strongest asset. Knights have to advance into the teeth of those guns, if they wanna get in range with their own. Fearless is a definite asset, as is having four specials (ie the Tau have to kill the whole unit if they wanna avoid getting dakka'd to death once you set up at 24" in Heavy mode). Purifiers will also easily clean up Kroot or any melee Allies the Tau use to try and jam you up. It's not like we can even amass the same amount of dudes as a Fire Warrior-heavy list anyway. Strikes are not cheap, and even in our own codex (for now), Acolytes with storm bolters beat them on bolter ouput (plus having better range of special and heavy options, with only the Jokaero being overpriced). Which is not to say Strikes are bad, they're just eclipsed by the meta and by other options in our own dex. Maybe the update coming soon will change all that, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294349-starting-grey-knightshelp-needed/#findComment-3761390 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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