Storm Raven counts as Dark Shroud

[Paulochromis]

Hi there,

 

How do the Storm Raven and Dark Shrouds compare for size?

I know that the SR flight stand is quite a bit taller than the DS skimmer stand.

 

Got an SM biker army that I want to try as Ravenwing + Black Knights, but don't have a Dark Shroud.

Would the Storm Raven be an acceptable stand-in?

[SvenONE]

I found this picture comparing the size of the Darkshroud/LSV to the regular speeder. This shot, shows it relative to a dreadnought and a tactical squad.  Needless to say a Stormraven will be considerably bigger and function differently as it will be pretty easy to block line of sight.  I think as long as your opponent is ok with it it should be fine.  But I would say it's safe to user a regular landspeeder as a stand in over a stormraven.

[Polythemus]

Just use a regular speeder. The storm raven is way to big. I agree with Sven.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ygvdSsyXdq4/U1SRCv1NWfI/AAAAAAAABSw/zyU7aYeOB38/s1600/fast-attack-3.gif

The plane in green is the storm eagle, the dark shroud is just in front/ below it.

[Paulochromis]

Thanks guys.

From the picture, the Dark Shrouds looks at least 1.5 times as long, and 1.5 times as wide as a regular Land Speeder, so nearer in footprint to the Storm Eagle (which is pretty similar to the Storm Raven, right?). 

 

I'd read about combos related to moving units in sequence to provide the magic cover, but it seems like it would be too easy to do that with a physically smaller (shorter/narrower) model, and I don't want any unfair advantage.

 

It appears to me that the only reason to go a Land Speeder would be for height.

 

Dark Shroud doesn't really shoot, so the advantage a Storm Raven would get from being higher up (better LOS) is irrelevant. I'd probably live with being easier to be shot at, but worst case would say the floor of the Storm Raven would be the top of the Dark Shroud so if you can see the space under it, you can hit it.

[SvenONE]

The irony of the Darkshroud is that it's anything but subtle, it's size and appearance makes it quite the attention grabber on the tabletop, as I'm sure it would in the heat of the battle.  I still think that the 1.5x bigger than the landspeeder is still better than the boxy vision obscuring stormraven/stormeagle.  Again, as long as your opponent is ok with allowing it it should be ok.

 

The 7th edition kind of changed the sequence of moving units a little.  Now that Jink can just be declared you no longer need to flat-out your Darkshroud to get a 2+ cover save, and you at least get the bonus of firing the snap shots (better than no shots).  That said however, flatting-out the DS in front of units that have already fired is still a pretty tried and true tactic from last edition.  Move it in front of something you need to stay alive after that unit has fired in it's movement phase and you'll be giving it a 5+ for obscuring model cover, and +1 for Stealth for a total of a 4+ cover save (in open terrain!).

 

Taking the Assault Cannon on the Darkshroud was a big no-no in 6th edition but in this edition if you truly can't find somewhere to spend 20 points you may as well take it, the unit's gone from basically never shooting to shooting sometimes...

[Polythemus]

Here's the question you should ask yourself. If I use this _____ (stormraven/ Landspeeder) proxy which one is actually giving me the bigger advantage?

I would argue that the speeder is a smaller target but as a result is not spreading the stealth bubble and +1 combat resolution bubble as far, which is the whole reason you take the darkshroud in the first place.

The stormraven, A.)blocks LOS if you keep it on the ground 2.) got a much larger footprint when you consider the wings. of course if your keeping it in the air it still has a big footprint, but wont block LOS. I feel like the storm raven gives you the bigger advantage, which is why you should go with the speeder. Best advice would actually be to make a cardboard cutout of the shape and stick it on a skimmer base, then your coming as close to the actual unit as possible.

[Paulochromis]

Thanks again guys.

@SvenONE thanks for clarifying the Jink thing.

 

I'm really a C:SM (White Scars) kind of guy. I've got 35+ bikes and wanted to try C:DA (Ravenwing) out.

I traded my typhoons away to my son, who plays C:DA (Deathwing).

I own a couple of Ravens, and thought a Darkshroud would be interesting.

But the truth is, whilst the Nephilim is probably the prettiest non-FW flyer out there, the Darkshroud is far and away the ugliest skimmer/flyer ever made.

Which, after seeing the recent C:SW flyers, is really saying something. I am NEVER going to be buying one.

I just like the idea of a flying/skimming ECM (Electronic Counter Measures) platform to help my bikes out.

Maybe a Storm Talon would make a better substitute. That model, at least, I can get behind. Some nice conversions out there too.

 

Always going to be a successor, not DA themselves (painted blue = Ultramarines/Dark Hunters) 

So planning to get a FW Scimitar for Sammael - what do you think?