Frater Cornelius Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Last time I played wolves was in 6ed. I played a Rhino Rush supported with TWC then because I preferred the tactical flexibility you get from Metal Bawkses as opposed to pods. It fits the concept of my army way better. I modelled my army after Viking Raiders in their longboats, masters of the sea and naval warfare. With the new flier I can expand on that idea better than before with Rhinos and Stormwolves in addition to either Swiftclaws or TWC. However, this is 7ed now and pure pod lists are dominating. I do not like pod lists but I do not mind having one or the other pod supporting my advance. So, what is your take, do you think a Rhino Rush can still work? They are less likely to harm the passengers with explosions now. Then maybe a few pods to get dreads to the front lines and 2 Stormwolves. Or is full pod the way to go now? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294595-rhino-rush-7ed/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadir Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Rhino rush is my favorite tactic. With additional flying vechicle with assault ramp now, it should work again. I do not like pods too much, because its always a little hazardous to use them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294595-rhino-rush-7ed/#findComment-3764500 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nrthstar Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 I've been playing a mixed bag in 7th, and haven't lost yet, even to some of our best local players. two pods, two razorbacks, but with everything about to come out, I'm back to the drawing board, and I couldn't be happier! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294595-rhino-rush-7ed/#findComment-3764599 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squark Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Rhino rush's should be reasonably effective, but you have to commit. Killing small quantities of light armor is child's play in the current competitive metagame (Grey Knights have Psycannons, Eldar have the Rage-inducing Wave Serpent, and 'Crons have Gauss and Tesla Destructors), so if you're going to run rhinos, you need 4-5 hulls, as well as something heavier to take the pressure off them (Vindicators are the cheap option. Land raiders, well... Look, land raiders are already a huge part of the meta, so if you run one, run 2 or more, and now you've got raider rush, not rhino rush). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294595-rhino-rush-7ed/#findComment-3764630 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted August 3, 2014 Author Share Posted August 3, 2014 Well, how about alternative targets like say 3 rhinos with GH, TWC and 1-2 pods coming down turn 1 with dreads or something, effectively encircling the enemy and then Stormwolves coming out of reserve. When it comes to SW I am a fan of reasonably fast transports as opposed to actual tanks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294595-rhino-rush-7ed/#findComment-3764641 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvih Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Well, if you want Land Raiders in the mix, at 1850 you can run for example two Land Raiders and 4 Rhinos stuffed full of marines. Not really going to fit much else in it, but it sure is a decent amount of models. At 2000 points there's a bit more space to add something else as well. That said, the only time I've really seen a Rhino rush on the tabletop was in a tournament back in April. It was still 6th of course, and I was on the receiving end... but since I didn't have that many models of my own at 1850, I really got overwhelmed faster than you can say "bugger!". Of course there are lists that can be a good Rhino rush, but it can also be quite effective. And at least around here it's not a common tactic, so it can take many opponents by surprise. With Space Wolves still having the option for adding the CCW as well, I can imagine 60+ BP+CCW+Bolter troops in your face is not something to be taken lightly. A lot of shooting on disembark, with the option to charge into the fray the next turn (more efficiently than tacticals). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294595-rhino-rush-7ed/#findComment-3764642 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Bleak Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 In my local shop one of our competitive Space Marine players has been using Rhino Rush codex marines, supported by Devestators and Storm Talons. He field 5 full tac squads (combat squared) at 1850 in 5 Rhinos. He's been doing incredibly well. In fact, he hasn't lost yet, playing against nasty Tau, Space Marine, Eldar, and Ork lists in the shop. The way I see it, Wolves can do anything that Codex Marines can but just that little bit better due to our extra weapons. For example, you could run: 10 GH, 2x Plasma, Wulfen, Banner, Rhino 10 GH, 2x Melta, Wulfen, Banner, Rhino 10 GH, 2x Flamer, Wulfen, Banner, Rhino 6 GH, Melta, Rhino 6 GH, Plasma, Rhino And that's just about 890 points, leaving lots of space for Divination Rune Priests and one or two Imperial Knights or the new Storm-Flyer or whatever heavy firepower you want to take. This is even viable at 1500. Dropping the Banner and Wulfen and going full basic with special weapons will net you enough points for 5 more Grey Hunters too. With troops this cheap, and this well equipped at the lowest level, Rhino Rush is still an excellent build. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294595-rhino-rush-7ed/#findComment-3766274 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squark Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Well, how about alternative targets like say 3 rhinos with GH, TWC and 1-2 pods coming down turn 1 with dreads or something, effectively encircling the enemy and then Stormwolves coming out of reserve. When it comes to SW I am a fan of reasonably fast transports as opposed to actual tanks. It seems like you're falling into the little bit of everything army, which... Generally? Loses the one thing your opponent's list needed to fear turn 1 and them flounders the rest of the match. Redundancy is vital. If you want TWC, take two packs. If you want rhinos, take four or more (and something to take the heat off them, because rhinos Annihilation Barges and Wave serpents will chew them to bits, and you can bet you'll see 2-4 of them very frequently). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294595-rhino-rush-7ed/#findComment-3766302 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfsbane Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Pod support for a mecha list is never a bad thing. I usually have 1-3 drop dreads (I really like dreadnoughts), with 2-4 boxes zooming around with TWC support. The list is very flexible and does not leave you having to look for a dozen missile launchers for Long Fangs. For my drop dreads I like a double heavy flamer (one twin-linked, one on the weapon), assault cannon/dread CCW, and a multi-melta/dread CCW. So naturally I am very much excited to start playing with Murderfang and Stormshield dreads that just scream, "Kill me or your line is broken!" Your dreads will get blown to pieces, but they give you that one round you need to advance all the TWC and boxes into positions to crush your enemy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294595-rhino-rush-7ed/#findComment-3766313 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spazmonkey Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 You can run x2 dreads in drop pods with some upgrades. x2 10 man Grey hunters in Rhinos with upgrades. x1 Stormwolf with x15 bloodclaws and wolf priest. with some upgrades. x1 whirlwind x2 6 man long fangs x3 rkt x2 las All well under 1850 infact youd have about 50 - 80 points spare.... Could even replace the dreads with more grey hunters and have over 40 grey hunters on the board, Pretty rounded list. The drop pods and stormwolf are also objective secured as they are troop dedicated transports. Rhino rush to support the drop pods. I would take a third empty drop pod so your 2 full ones come in first turn. drop pod onto objectives to hold them from turn 1, or pop some armour. 3 units of heavy support to cover your rush, then wait for the storm wolf to come in... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294595-rhino-rush-7ed/#findComment-3766415 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted August 5, 2014 Author Share Posted August 5, 2014 I have also been eying the Murderfang and Vendread (got myself the 3 dread set right when preorders came up, love 'em) in pods while Rhinos move upfield. Since the theme for my army is viking raiding party, I am thinking of moving the TWC into the 'land force' and make a separate list for them while in this one I focus on delivery methods. 3-5 Rhinos with GH, 1-2 Stormwolves/fangs (still split about it), some Wolf Scouts with Plasmas if they still have the Behind Enemy Lines rule and dreads in pods. Will be modelling my Rhinos and Flyers after the style of Longships/Dragonboats. The TWC list would probably be something like Fenrisian Wolves, TWC, Santa Grimnar, basically a fast assault force as opposed to close ranged dakka with option to assault. Or hell, I might even mix the two like I did before if the point costs are reasonably dropped, though I have to give this one to Squark.. if aiming for competitive lists it's better to focus on one thing because contrary to popular believe, TAC lists lose more often than not. Best focus on one thing because you are bound to counter another list perfectly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294595-rhino-rush-7ed/#findComment-3766433 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sohail187 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I wish i had trust in GH :( i just find them to be such a waste of points in full 10 man squads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294595-rhino-rush-7ed/#findComment-3766441 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted August 5, 2014 Author Share Posted August 5, 2014 I wish i had trust in GH i just find them to be such a waste of points in full 10 man squads. Feel free to elaborate, bud ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294595-rhino-rush-7ed/#findComment-3766455 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sohail187 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 No space for my dissapointment of GH in this thread. back on topic you guys ever thought about using defencive drop pods. So instead of dropping 10 guys other side of the table facing 1500 points of fire power, drop a 5 man squad ontop of an objective on your own side of the table. This gives you a 12 AV 3 Hp objective secure unit on one of your objectives which means you can now ignore it and more on, and the 5 man squad runs to another. This is how i tend to play my GH, x2 5 man naked sqauds in pods or rhinos sitting back, whilst i take an offencive army with elites fast attack and heavy support. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294595-rhino-rush-7ed/#findComment-3766482 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted August 5, 2014 Author Share Posted August 5, 2014 You also deny the enemy an objective by dropping an empty pod. By the way, lets take the rhino rush further and say MSU Razorspam. How about that? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294595-rhino-rush-7ed/#findComment-3766511 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvih Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I'd like to do something liked mixed Razor/Rhino spam. Not with SW specifically, since I don't and won't have enough Wolves for that (though of course there's always proxying other marines to be Wolves, and in fact I don't have enough marines of ANY chapter to make a proper single-chapter rush), but the concept's pretty much the same with any marines, of course. The upside to adding some Razorbacks is of course being able to take some heavier weapons on the vehicle itself. To do it though, I'd need to paint some more Rhino hulls. I have plenty of them, just not painted, and many not even assembled. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294595-rhino-rush-7ed/#findComment-3766560 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sohail187 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 i been playing razorspam A LOT in tournaments over the last few months and local club nights. Unless i get first turn they die :( its just sad, arm 11.... is just meh. Played in a 1500 tournament over the weekend, and in 2 games i lost all 3 raorbacks first turn which is very very stressful when you have paid for assault cannons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294595-rhino-rush-7ed/#findComment-3766569 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted August 5, 2014 Author Share Posted August 5, 2014 So you do not like 10man GH and you say Razorspam does not work. Whats left? Bloodclaws, Logan or Canis Wolfporn. Dunno, personally, I like GH well enough to try running 10 ultragrit dudes in either pods or METAL BAWKSES. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294595-rhino-rush-7ed/#findComment-3766665 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sohail187 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Dont get me wrong Gh are good sitting back on my 6 inch line with the objective but that's as far as they go ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294595-rhino-rush-7ed/#findComment-3766669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted August 5, 2014 Author Share Posted August 5, 2014 Where's the glory in that. I dislike reactionary and passive lists. High pressure is more to my tastes and quickly covering ground is part of it. Besides, sitting back in Maelstrom won't get you anywhere. You must either be able to grab at will of keep the enemy from scoring. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294595-rhino-rush-7ed/#findComment-3766688 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead01 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Dont get me wrong Gh are good sitting back on my 6 inch line with the objective but that's as far as they go Really? I find that...uncomfortable to imagine. Until the new codex is out they will be among the beastly best troop in 40K. Bet to each their own I guess. I haven't rhino rushed in a few years. Not because of rhino or vehicle stats as much as my lack of rhinos. I went full on droppod for a while and just dropped the pods.. This has me wondering how many I should collect. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294595-rhino-rush-7ed/#findComment-3766690 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted August 5, 2014 Author Share Posted August 5, 2014 I just got some more dudes to bolster the ranks and have a few special weapons to spare as well as a Stormwolf. Given as I do not have any finished TWC and the Lord still need some work, I will first attempt a few 1500 lists which 3 full ultragrit GH squads (which should clock on around 200-250 per unit with the appropriate delivery method), my special dreads in pods, a Stormwolf and possibly some scouts. Dont get me wrong Gh are good sitting back on my 6 inch line with the objective but that's as far as they go Really? I find that...uncomfortable to imagine. Until the new codex is out they will be among the beastly best troop in 40K. Bet to each their own I guess. I haven't rhino rushed in a few years. Not because of rhino or vehicle stats as much as my lack of rhinos. I went full on droppod for a while and just dropped the pods.. This has me wondering how many I should collect. I imagine them still staying one of the best troops in the game given their melee and ranged power, ability to take 2 specials, different deployment methods and wolf specific upgrades, despite the inevitable Wolf Standard nerf. By the way, I had a chat with the owner of my FLGS and a buddy of mine on how to make the Stormwolf look more like a Dragonboat and we came to the most awesome conlcusion. All I need is a Snake/Dragon head to replicate Jormungandr. I am so giddy about it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294595-rhino-rush-7ed/#findComment-3766711 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Dunno why its called Rhino rush, it has hardly any of the aspects of the original Rhino rush tactic, if its should be anything called than RHino Drive by is more acurate. Eg Rhino rush being 12" move and than charging out of it same turn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294595-rhino-rush-7ed/#findComment-3767014 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted August 5, 2014 Author Share Posted August 5, 2014 Well I basically meant full GH in rhino going for the front lines real fast. We're in 7th here, not the 3rd or whenever the original one took place :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294595-rhino-rush-7ed/#findComment-3767025 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiltedMarine Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Rush or drive by, it's still a powerful tactic. Now it just involves shooting before delivering the chainsword-to-the-face part. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294595-rhino-rush-7ed/#findComment-3768682 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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