Prot's Belial-icious BatRep vs Nids

[Prot]

Hey guys,

Sorry but not much pics this time because I'll be honest, this game started out so brutally, I kind of went through the motions but thought this isn't fair to my opponent and tried to make a game of it. But I started out in a big hole plus an act of stupidity I still can't believe I committed. Anyway, on to the batrep:

So my list was something like:

Belial

Libby in Termie Armour w/Lion's Roar (great piece o' Wargear thanks Lucifer)

5 DWT, Hammer/Shield, Cyclone

5 DWT, Hammer/Shield, Cyclone

5 DWT, Hammer/Shield, Assault Cannon

5 DWK

5 Tactical Marines, 1 Plasma Gun

3 RWB, 2 x melta

1 MM Attack Bike

1 Typhoon Speeder

5 x Black Knights 1 grenade launcher

The Nid List was something like:

HQ 1 of those dudes with all the insta-killy blades. Sorry name escapes me. He has two body guards that suck up his wounds. NASTY

Broodlord and 10ish Genestealers

15-20 little gaunts armed with pooflingers.

2 of those tentacle dudes who give a 5+ cover to everything

3 Zoanthropes (Warp charges galore)

Mid sized unit of shooty warriors

2 Flyers. Can't remember the names, but they looked like flying devil ray's. They pooped flames and shots, as well as vector strike of course.

Tervigon

2 Lictors and the boss Lictor dude: Deathleaper?. (He likes lictors it was a fun, experimental list.)

This Nid player had been on a huge run in maelstrom with quite a string of victories and I was bringing a fairly low model count to a big model count opponent....

You ever see one of those movies where it starts with the ending, and you have to figure out how things went so sideways to end up in that situation? Well in homage to that, I present to you an end game scene of dire circumstances:

Well here it is. You could be asking yourself, how on holy terra did this happen? Or, where is Belial's command squad? Why is this fight so lopsided? Or more importantly, where in Caliban's great halls are Belial's friggin arms? The answer to these questions and more, are below.....

The Game / Setup:

+++ The game was Maelstrom. I enjoy sharing my Tactical Objectives but this time we rolled the mission where you have to hide your tactical objectives until they are complete. The table deployment ended up being lengthwise which is great, unless you're a moron like me and make massive tactical error in the beginning (more on that later).

+++ My opponent got to pick sides, but I got first turn deployment.... so here's where I did something fantastically stupid. For some reason in the back of my mind I thought I could ASSAULT in TURN ONE! I have no idea why I had this brain fart. But as he set up he hid his Tervigon in a large ruin and surrounded him with poo-flingers. I got fixated on this and Belial with his precision Deep Strike could gank the fat momma and take her our before too much birthing occured.

The biggest error in this is I like to support my squads in 'layers'. That meant in this game that I was hanging Belial's Termie squad out to dry, because I put my Black Knights WAY too high (to support Belial) and same goes for 3 man bikers, and Attack Bike.

VERY STUPID. But what's done is done, and I'm a big enough man (/idiot) to admit I had this totally stupid moment.

Early Game Key Moments:

+++ So I do my scout moves... realize how I messed up (mentioned above), but we go on. I am horribly spread out and the thing is my opponent's nids actually shoot a fair amount! I do a lot of shooting myself, and the best results come from the Typhoon Speeder who out right wacks a few multiwound baddies but we are in Night Fight, so he is getting good saves. Not much happens aside from me conceding I messed up and am far too close to him as a result. Oh, but not to forget, all my termies come in. Deviations (aside from Belial) are bad, but not fatal.

+++ The Nids are ready for my piecemeal deployment. I take a lot of firepower, and as usual the Black Knights take the brunt of it but I only lose one so far. He tries suckering me with puny psyker powers, but I let them go (He has FAR more dice than I), then I wait for the Warp Blasts, and he takes one test for the entire squad! (I did not know it worked like this for Zoanthropes). I only take one casualty on the bikers (JINK!)

+++ He largely advances, and wants Belial dead. The big bad HQ; Swarmlord is back/mid field. Don't forge this is a length-wise deployment so although the Nid player is protectiing him from my Black Knights (He only gets a 4+ invuln in close combat and his guards are 3+ saves), BUT the bad of that is he's too far back to get around all his poo-flingers. Belial is targeted heavily. I lose Hammer/Shiield dude! D'oh!!!

Belial, Librarian, and Deathwing Squad precision strike DEEP on the Western Flank of Nid Town. In the distance, a million poo-flingers scurry over the rubble in search of prey. They are too fixated on what lays ahead to notice the crackling of a Deep Strike energy signature. Just beyond the squad lays the ruins which hide the precious Tervigon nursery. Belial's men stand largely alone, against incredible odds. Too bad Belial forgot his arms!

Mid Game / Key Moments:

+++ The Nid flyers come in. The Dark Angels have largely camped mid-field while the 5 man tacticals hold home field and sit on an objective.

+++ Both of us are drawing horrible cards. My opponent admits he has a couple he can do, however the objective "x" ones appear to be in my zone. I am drawing 'challenge' cards against an army with few characters and 'destroy weapon mounts'. Ugh. Finally I draw some things I can do.... at mid game.

+++ The Tervigon senses doom in the form of Belial's squad. The Librarian tries casting stuff but it is a bad time to tap the warp. His leadership is reduced, and he is down to one wound. The army on the Western flanks try to assist Belial and put about 2-3 wounds on the Tervigon (Cyclones, multimelta, and one shot from the Lion's Roar - meow!)

+++ The Tervigon tried to defend itself by spawning more poo-flingers. But I get off a Pyro power in the form of a heavy flamer... Perfect! The Librarian kills 7 of 9 gaunts. Using split fire I manage to reduce the Gaunts and assault the Tervigon.

+++ Although the Tervigon was reachable, it was still surrounded by poo-flingers and a flyer coming in for support... not to mention the Swarmlord seeing a deep field target he could sink his blades into... The Deathwing manage to smash a fist right through the cranium of the Tervigon and a psychic deathscream is heard by all the gaunts around it.... I roll triple 1's for the result, concluding with a fantastically underwhelming death of 1 gaunt!!!!

+++ Belial is shot up more, the Librarian down to one wound tries to fulfill a simple psychic task to get me a Tactical Objective point! He passes the test, but Perils! I am reduced leadership, plus Shadow in the Warp is in effect (I hate this in 7th edition!) and of course he blows his own head off! I get one tactical point, and lose the Librarian, but you want to hear about stubborn acts? My opponent starts laughing as he picks up a new card that says 'kill enemy psyker' for a point! hahahaah... no chance, I'd rather blow my own head off than give up a point.

+++ Belials squad is attacked by a flyer, but it is pounded into steak dinner by the depleted Deathwing. Belial retreats with one remaining Squad Member into the far western corner of the board. He knows the Swarmlord is coming for him. He will make his last stand here.

Mid game shot of Nid Town. The Deathwing Knights have no real target for 80% of the game. The Deathwing (grey squad) is at least able to shoot. Stormbolters are huge in this game dwindling down the pooflingers, and even some support models. Outside these walls is 'no man's land'. Although the nids have suffered heavy casualties, so too have the Dark Angels losing Black Knights, and a bike squad. The Broodlord and an remnant Genestealer are rushing the ruins trying to crack the defense line.

End Game / Key Moments:

+++ The ruins (above) are threatened and some Deathwing die, but hold the line perserving some of my objective markers.

+++ The Nid Flyer(s) have been flying around without recourse, slowly but surely killing my forces, and adding in the odd Vector strike, killing a terminator every turn.

+++ The Nids score some objective points as well. The game is actually VERY close. Much closer than I thought as originally I was going to just concede the game.

+++ The Swarmlord catches up to Belial who is the last man standing, deep in Nid-Town.....

Poo-flingers come from the West in a last ditch attempt at breaking the Deathwing Stronghold. (he's been trying for this objective for a while, and a flyer has been shooting these termies alll game including a vector strike fatality). The poo-flingers would die, to multiple shots. Just off screen: their deaths leave me a rare opportunity to get an objective I've had since turn 1 ! The multi-melta attack bike sits on an Objective marker for a point late in the game!

Do you think the Swarmlord could spare a couple of arms for Belial? I think he looks too greedy to me.

Here we are with the opening picture. Belial is at 2 wounds remaining at the beginning of this fight. He and his squad have inflicted a great gash into the Hive Mind, and now he stands alone... disarmed.... quite literally.

+++ Belial stands alone against a squad of the Swarmlord, and 2 guards with only one wound. Remember that EVERY attack the Swarmlord does is Instant Death.

+++ The reason that Belial has no arms is I refuse to glue them on until I know what would be the best configuration! I usually play SoS and Storm bolter, but this game I went Hammer Shield because recently I have had trouble wounding peons and he's been getting stuck in against garbage units.

+++ The Swarmlord goes first. I don't bother worrying about this fight as Belial and his squad have done more than enough this game with no real support. (BTW: in this round of combat the Swarmlord is mega pumped up. He perils once and rolled a 6 so he has all these bonus powers for this turn in assault) The swarmlord winds up and puts 4 insta-death wounds on Belial. The sheer weight of monstrous attacks puts Belial on his back foot. But raising his shield, and tapping into his last inner strength, he deflects all four death-strikes!!!! Racing back to his feet, Belial puts two expertly placed hammer strike wounds onto the beast.

+++ The Swarmlord (and his owner) are enraged! How could a mere mortal still stand? With the advantages of the perils' powers faded, the lumbering beast only manages one, potentially fatal, wound on Belial. But he is up to the task, deflecting the blow once again, and putting another wound on the Swarmlord's brood!

+++ Belial, beyond exhaustion, stands to face another massive assault. The Swarmlord batters away, enraged, and wounds Belial 4 more times! Belial spins the hacked shield to his defense, but one fatal wound gets through, killing Belial. An amazing battle, lasting two full turns finally ends. Belial holds the beast in a far corner to preserve his brothers, letting them accomplish what they must.

Conclusion:

+++ The Nids manage to get bonuses in the game: First Blood, and of course, Slay the Warlord.

+++ The Dark Angels manage to squeak through 2 points in the last two turns to win by a score of 8 to 7 !!! A crazy close game that I had no business winning, but I'll take it.

+++ My opponent reminded me at the end of the game that the Sword of Silence actually always wounds on a 2+ so I actually would have been better off with it! Here I was thinking this game convinced me to stick out hammer/shield and actually the opposite is true!!!

+++ My opponent was perhaps as stunned as I was. He knew full well he should have won. I was in a bad spot on paper to begin with because of a hordish style army, vs. my low model count, but to compound things I had a terribly stupid deployment.

+++ My key players: The Speeder. I skipped a lot of it because it was rather uneventfulll, but to have a back field unit that can still participate and dodge was nice. At one point the Deathleaeper popped out of nowhere to threaten my Tacticals, and I could only Snap Fire at it. The Speeder popped off a 6 with a Krak Missile and insta-gibbed the would be killer.

+++ Although far too risky, the damage that Belial and squad did deep in the zone was incredible. I lost far too many termies to just sheer weight of junkfire.

+++ I threw away the Black Knights. Stupidly. I saw the Zoanthropes as a massive threat. I shot them (they have a 3++) then rushed them in assault figuring I'd hit and run before they got back up. I rolled a 6 and got stuck in and killed by support.

+++ My opponent's flyers weren't massively strong, but I couldn't do anything about them. They had free reign until one landed to 'slow' belial and he killed it. But they were very annoying. (But it was nice not playing against Mawloc's for once!)

I hope you enjoyed the batrep. If you read this far... thank you!

[helterskelter]

Really nice style you reported in, I enjoyed that

[JeffJedi]

Haha, crazy battle, great read. The Tervigons are always so annoying and I know how you feel the Swarm Lord is a raging monster, he killed my Belial once too.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Crazy battle and profoundly entertaining. Thanks for sharing mate. LOL, you're Belial was truly awesome to get stuck in with a Swarmlord for nearly 3 rounds.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Once again you snatch victory from the jaws of defeat. I'm impressed. Doubly impressed because of the deployment mistake.

About the SoS/TH conundrum... Altough SoS wounds always in 2+ the AP of the TH is better and the SS has better inv (you could fight the SWarmmoord to a stand still) Did you remember the concussive rule from the TH?

 

I share the same opinion about speeders. In the backfield tehy do a good job. They avoid small arms fir that can harm them and tehy can always jink the odd anti-tank that comes their way. They actually work in this army because the enemy also has to throw AT rounds at the terminators that are built like tanks!

 

I think in this scenario, since you were going for the enemy's guts it could have probably payed off to DS with the DWK. You would get T5 on the squad which is golden against the poo flingers and despite the lack of shooting they could have made a difference in CC. But hindsight is always the best thing huh?

 

I saw the libbie getting a shot with the psychic heavy flamer. Against nids, it's well worth to have Pyromancy just because of that.

 

I'm happy to see that you found a way to play DW. I recall they were the ones you couldn't get them to work... :D

[Pigshead]

I love close games, the fact that you admittedly screwed your deployment, and then still won, is great. I've yet to play nids in 7th. Would you recommend DW over a mixed wing approach?

[EE_Knight]

Beautiful comeback.

 

I love Nids, they were my first army, and have a ridiculous amount of points invested in them.  He had a solid list with plenty of synapse (I take it you were playing 1850?).  Psyk wise, he should have had three dice for the Swarmlord, one of the Broodlord, and two for the chorus of Zoanthropes (you don't get two per zoan when they're in a brood, you only get two for the whole brood), two for the Terv plus his roll.

 

While the tervigon looks juicy, you fell for a trap there, as they're not really an offensive threat (not much shooting and pretty poor at cc for a MC unless you spend a lot on upgrades), they're really more of a synapse support link unless they get lucky with the psyk powers.

 

The Swarmlord is terrifying, but since he's up there with a Deathwing Landraider points-wise, he ought to be.  The trick to handling him is to not let him get into CC with anything important. Drown him in a lot of plasma, or massive amounts of bolter fire.  His tyrant guard are T6 but only have two wounds each and a 3+ armor.

 

Nids can be quite shooty with the right build, but they don't have much high AP shooting stuff outside of warp blasts and warp lance, plus the new plasma-spewing MC.  The only invulnerable saves in the army against shooting are on the Zoanthropes.  They have a tough time handling high-firepower high-mobility armies, so speeders are great. Krak missiles are deadly, they insta-kill those warriors. TH SS termies are terrifying to me when I'm running Nids as they're quite the beat-stick against my MCs, force weapons are the only thing I fear more.  Usually I just try and bog those units down in cheap gaunts.  If you get in terrain, there are limited options for nids to avoid an initiative reduction, only a few models have the ability to take flesh hooks that have an assault-grenade like effect of letting you get into CC at initiative -- genestealers, for such CC monstrosities, are seriously handicapped by this, being a bit squishy for specialized CC troops.

 

He had a good list for synapse (genestealers and lictors don't have to worry about it at all), but I've seen Tyranid players show up with much less.  Just get the synapse guys, and the wheels pretty much come off the whole army, unless it's MC-heavy.

 

Right now the toughest Tyranid build is the skyblight formation from Leviathan Rising.  Something like 5 flying MCs, which are much more survivable in 7th if less of a CC threat as they have to spend a turn gliding and being vulnerable to normal firepower.  It's highly mobile and the cheap gargoyles can deep strike and are super-scoring.  Personally I don't use it, my lists tend to be fast CC, which to me is what Tyranids should be all about though GW and the codex-writing committee disagrees, it seems.

 

There are really three ways to reliably beat Nids.  In a small-point game, just keep kiting around in your transports, dropping pie plates or templates on the little guys and zapping the big ones with high-strength fire.  In larger games, a gunline can do the job but you'll need a lot of AA to kill the Flying Hive Tyrants and other winged MC.  Going very offensive on them can screw with them too; if you drop-pod in, say, veterans with Combi-plasma you can take out mid-strength groups and MCs pretty reliably.  A Standard of Devastation will really put a hurting on them.

[Prot]

Thanks for the advice EE.

I agree with lots of what you're saying. As far as his list he's been trying to get away from dakka flyrant, though I do face them regularly and didn't miss it one bit in this game!

The Tervigon is an interesting debate. Even though I screwed up deployment when I look back I was actually glad I went after the Tervigon. I'm not saying there would have been a viable, alternative for Belial and crew, however I have a lot of trouble with high numbers in armies that I face with this list. It was my intent to close the birthing momma up asap. She only got one turn of 14 Gaunts before I killed her. Again though I admit there could have been an alternative way of handling this... not too sure what though.

About the SoS/TH conundrum... Altough SoS wounds always in 2+ the AP of the TH is better and the SS has better inv (you could fight the SWarmmoord to a stand still) Did you remember the concussive rule from the TH?

I think in this scenario, since you were going for the enemy's guts it could have probably payed off to DS with the DWK. You would get T5 on the squad which is golden against the poo flingers and despite the lack of shooting they could have made a difference in CC. But hindsight is always the best thing huh?

I saw the libbie getting a shot with the psychic heavy flamer. Against nids, it's well worth to have Pyromancy just because of that.

I'm happy to see that you found a way to play DW. I recall they were the ones you couldn't get them to work...

Good thoughts about the Hammer/Shield. I don't know what to do. I feel the sword just allows a better shot at getting the quick kill, but you're right the AP2 is big, and better against a walker. I do think I can offset the need for a Hammer by keeping a Hammer Termie with him. Still, now I'm in the camp of keeping the hammer/shield. The 3++ was really nice.

Yes in hindsight it probably would have worked well to have Belial go to bugtown with the Knights. They Pyro powers actually worked very well here.

As far as winning with DW yes, I was having trouble with them, but only with the dual LR lists. I never got those working well. I just think they need multiwing (just like Ravenwing does now too). But yea, I'll admit I'm enjoying this list... almost as much as my Az-Zeke bomb lists!

I love close games, the fact that you admittedly screwed your deployment, and then still won, is great. I've yet to play nids in 7th. Would you recommend DW over a mixed wing approach?

Nope, not personally. Maelstrom makes the game so much funner to me, but the trick is keeping enough spots covered on the table while not spreading yourself too thin and having overlapping support... it's just so much easier in multiwing imho.

[eurieus]

I face nids quite often with my deathwing and so far i've only used SoS, it's nice against most low WS MCs or if Belial is with some DWK or Hammernators, but one on one it's not worth it in the end. I've magnetized allthree options for my Belial but i think from now on i will only use the TH/SS, the 3++ is just too good. 

[Chaplain Lucifer]

I yanked my TH and SS and replaced it with SoS and SB. I don't plan on going back... so I suck it up. I still have an unpainted Belial with LC's... ;)

[Raztalin]

Does the SwarmLord no longer force you to reroll sucessful Inv saves?  I onlyhave the 5th Ed codex; and always used to fear playing my mates Nids cos he'd always bring this beasty ... LasCannons were my stock answer for him, and then Kite him like a mofo :)

[Gillyfish]

Nice report (as usual) Prot. Sounds like a hard fought and quite lucky victory, but a fun game nonetheless.

I yanked my TH and SS and replaced it with SoS and SB. I don't plan on going back... so I suck it up. I still have an unpainted Belial with LC's...

Well the LC Belial is the only one I have painted up! :D

[Tanhausen]

Nice rep, congrats again for snatching the victory!

 

As for Belial...magnets for the win! hehe

 

Personally, now I run him with SoS/SB for the 2+ wounding...plus the halo is already 4++. I just try to no get him into CC with MC and he's good :P

[Prot]

Yea. It's a real difficult decision. I better see if I can magnetize this guy

[Flam]

Wow that was an intense battle!! Keep the reps coming please!