Best units in the new codex?

[Rift Blade]

Ok, finally got my codex & actually had a chance to read the unit entries & wargear & other stuff. I'm gonna have to reread it at least twice more before I can actually take even most of it in & process but off the top this is what stands out to me. Probably the best unit/unit that gained the most is TWC. Yes, their pts dropped as well as the pts for storm shields but the biggest thing that I noticed IMO is that ANY model may take from the Melee Weapons list. You can give every TW a PW if you so chose. And you can still give each one a PP. Together with their pack size now being 6 and like some of you have said, TWC are now very viable in an edition where assault is hard.

 

Skyclaws are also now very attractive with their pts drop as well as being able to upgrade  for the WGPL. As well I noticed that you can field 2 special weapons with them. All round counting the drop in pts for JP's for IC's, I think these guys are going to become more popular.

 

Wolf Guard PA---cheaper JP's & bikes-enough said.

 

Iron Priests-I saw some of the others post that maybe these guys did not make out all that great but I think they did great. THey got IC rule which actually makes them so much more useful on the table. AS well, with the TWM now granting a W, they are much more survivable on the table. More pts,? Sure, but in this instance, I'm OK with it. The general pts drop across our codex off sets it IMO.

 

And for those times when you want to be just jerky as your opponent I noticed we can field way more LR's with this codex. Pricey but the option is there. 

 

Rune Priests--these guys are a mixed bag IMO, at least till I play a few games. Our powers got toned down IMO but they dropped in price. Coupled with the change to Runic Armour, I think they will stay a staple of our armies, especially in Wolves Unleashed Detachments. For the same pts as the old dex, with the same gear the pts are a wash & he's ML2 & now has an Inv. save. Needs to play tested IMO but there is potential. My 2 cents anyways.

[Valerian]

Ok, finally got my codex & actually had a chance to read the unit entries & wargear & other stuff. I'm gonna have to reread it at least twice more before I can actually take even most of it in & process but off the top this is what stands out to me. Probably the best unit/unit that gained the most is TWC. Yes, their pts dropped as well as the pts for storm shields but the biggest thing that I noticed IMO is that ANY model may take from the Melee Weapons list. You can give every TW a PW if you so chose. And you can still give each one a PP. Together with their pack size now being 6 and like some of you have said, TWC are now very viable in an edition where assault is hard.

 

 

In addition to these points, you keep your Rending, even if you take a SCCW, and there are no restrictions on who can attach to TWC units either.

 

V

[Rift Blade]

I thought I saw in some of posts people talking about rending pw's but hadn't checked in the rules on it yet. I'm really looking forward to getting a game in even more now. Thanks Valerian.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

When I ran them yesterday I didn't buy special weapons with the exception of melta bombs, and the rending did all of the work I could ask for. With the high volume of attack the rending is quite likely and with Harold they had furious charge. Basically they were killing machines

[Rift Blade]

Great to hear jbickb. Thanks. The local tread head here is on block leave soon & hoping to maybe get my 1st game of 7th Ed with him. Expect to get my head handed to me but I'm not going down with out a fight. Gonna use my Contemptor as bait(he hates that thing & in his defence, it is unusually lucky against him) so my TWC can do the work. 

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Sounds like that should be a fun game.

 

A 3 melta pod sounds like it would be useful that game as well.

[Rift Blade]

With him it usually is. He's a Guard freak & loves his Armoured Co. list as well. He has pretty much everything for his Guard( we play 6-7 K Apoc games once or twice a yr.) to the extant that last time I was at his place I nearly died laughing seeing his collection of 31 Leman Russ's & 6 Bane Blades. I don't feel so bad about my collection of Wolves after seeing that. LOL!!!

 

Yeah, toying with something like that in my DP list. I'm struggling with converting my old 2000 pts all comers list. Part of is life keeps interfering. LOL!!! I'm hoping to have time tonight once I'm home to sit down & hash out an equivalent list for either my regular all comers or my Drop Pod list.

[SonOfThunder]

For me one of the best new units is the stormwolf, absolutely killy, specially loaded with cheap BCs and some IC to boost them (WP or ulrik). Ulrik is kind of a no brainer too if you plan to take a barebones wolf priest. For 35 points more the stats increase and the preferred enemy bubble alone are a steal. Then you have fear and a plasma pistol to round it up.

 

But what makes the stormwolf great is the wolves unleashed detachment. You know you'll get the flier turn 2 and the assault turn 3, and you can factor that in your strategy. The price is objective secure, so it's not cheap...but it can be worth it imo. Forces you to play more boldly maybe, more agressively, but that's the SW way, ain't it!

 

TWC got from decent to almost auto-include too, to the point of spamming them, specially if you want to go the cc route. I mean, honestly, same cost as a vanilla termi?

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Has anyone run Bjorn yet? I think he could do really well. 

The Stormwolf and Stormfang look tempting...

 

Best Units:

TWC 

 

Heavy Bolter Razorbacks as fire support for Grey Hunters and mobile platforms for grabbing objectives

Grey Hunters

Long Fangs

Rune Priests

Vindicators!

I haven't play tested him yet but I'm really curious to see how Herald Deathwolf does

Lastly... though I haven't used him and don't own the model yet, Murderfang is supposed to be Ridunkuless

[Squark]

Murderfang is a terror if your opponent isn't familiar with anti-dred tactics. If he is, he loses a lot of punch.

[Drunken Angel]

Congrats on a new codex guys, it looks good and the points are aligned with 7th ed.  Some cool stuff there and I hope the shiny stuff does well

I think your strengths will still be in the humble grey hunters and drop pods.

 

 

TWC sound really cool but I thought I would be devils advocate here.

 

Three eldar hornets (with divination) will kill 2-3 TWC per turn of shooting and do it from 48 inches

Grav guns will wound at AP2 on 3's

Hell turkeys will still wound on 3's

Tau Missilesides .. well we know what they do.

Grey Knights can ruin anyones day with the Invisible stuff, all the re-rolls, HH and force weapons.

 

Shooting is still king of 7th.  Dropods and TWC look very competitive now though.  No- single main stream 7th ed army can deal with something like TWC easily in combat thats for sure.

 

If you could get Telepathy from an Alllied battle brother psyker with a bike or a jump pack to keep up and to cast on your TWC to make them invisible .... now that would be as bad as it gets.  Damn near a murderstar right there.   Good luck guys

[Spazmonkey]

I really think grey hunters will still shine. they are 1 point more expensive to get the extra attack, with a 25 point upgrade for the banner thats 3 attacks or 4 on the charge. plus 2 special weapons. that also means a power fist grey hunter is getting 2 attacks now or 3 on the charge. chuck in a wolf priest and you have one hell of a cc unit.

 

with headstrong gone now and special weapons available and skyclwas only being 15 points i think they will be a great option now to. 

 

but i think the big winner is thunder wolves.

unit of 3-6, all able to have thunder shields

 

I really dont think long fangs toook a hit big. some item got pricier, but las and plasma got cheaper. in no to fussed to be honest i think they and still on par with what they were.

 

over all i thin this dex will be our best one yet.

you can fit more units as over all prices dropped. we have not lost our shootieness, infact it got better with flak rockets, hellfrost, and the flyers.

we are alto more assault orientated with canis / thunder wolves getting a boost as well as greyhunters being cc monsters =, and blood claws and skyclaws being really viable. 

 

 

Honestly I think non wolves will look at this and think its an ok dex, but i think all the little upgrades = an amazing dex and people will soome learn to fear the wolves again.

 

we got better at everything we were good at, and lost very little that effects the over all unit....

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Congrats on a new codex guys, it looks good and the points are aligned with 7th ed. Some cool stuff there and I hope the shiny stuff does well

I think your strengths will still be in the humble grey hunters and drop pods.

 

 

TWC sound really cool but I thought I would be devils advocate here.

 

Three eldar hornets (with divination) will kill 2-3 TWC per turn of shooting and do it from 48 inches

Grav guns will wound at AP2 on 3's

Hell turkeys will still wound on 3's

Tau Missilesides .. well we know what they do.

Grey Knights can ruin anyones day with the Invisible stuff, all the re-rolls, HH and force weapons.

 

Shooting is still king of 7th. Dropods and TWC look very competitive now though. No- single main stream 7th ed army can deal with something like TWC easily in combat thats for sure.

 

If you could get Telepathy from an Alllied battle brother psyker with a bike or a jump pack to keep up and to cast on your TWC to make them invisible .... now that would be as bad as it gets. Damn near a murderstar right there. Good luck guys

Your point is valid, but none of the shooting you mentioned ignores invulnerable saves and with stormshields 15 points of awesome I think most of us will be taking them for the extra durability. I had no problems getting them into cc, though in all fairness chaos marines are not super shooty

[skeletoro]

Yeah, AP makes no difference when your save and invuln are both the same. Though ID from s10 or force weapons will be a legitimate threat, at 55 points per SS model (and t5/3++), even then it's not unbelievably horrible.

[Drunken Angel]

 

Congrats on a new codex guys, it looks good and the points are aligned with 7th ed. Some cool stuff there and I hope the shiny stuff does well

I think your strengths will still be in the humble grey hunters and drop pods.

 

 

TWC sound really cool but I thought I would be devils advocate here.

 

Three eldar hornets (with divination) will kill 2-3 TWC per turn of shooting and do it from 48 inches

Grav guns will wound at AP2 on 3's

Hell turkeys will still wound on 3's

Tau Missilesides .. well we know what they do.

Grey Knights can ruin anyones day with the Invisible stuff, all the re-rolls, HH and force weapons.

 

Shooting is still king of 7th. Dropods and TWC look very competitive now though. No- single main stream 7th ed army can deal with something like TWC easily in combat thats for sure.

 

If you could get Telepathy from an Alllied battle brother psyker with a bike or a jump pack to keep up and to cast on your TWC to make them invisible .... now that would be as bad as it gets. Damn near a murderstar right there. Good luck guys

Your point is valid, but none of the shooting you mentioned ignores invulnerable saves and with stormshields 15 points of awesome I think most of us will be taking them for the extra durability. I had no problems getting them into cc, though in all fairness chaos marines are not super shooty

 

 

 

Uhh guys I factored in a 3++ invun save into the rough figures on a multiwound model, at least on the Hornet shooting but you can do the math or dice it out, 12 twin linked S8 AP2 shots.  7 Warp spiders put out 14 S6 shots Those were just examples off the top of my head.  The shield is a 3++ invun right? even with toughness 5 on a TWC any S6 or higher shooting wounds on a 3, your taking a 3+ or a 3++.  On average a Serpent fires 10-12 twin linked S6-S7 shots.

Not talking down the quality of the TWC just saying they need care to run.  With the amount of high strength shooting around in 7th they are not a point, click, laugh, unit to send across the board.  Dreads in pods or anything in a pod will be TWC's best friend for early pressure.

[skeletoro]

Yes, high strength weapons can kill them, of course.

 

But those warp spider shots. They're BS4 (hit on a 3+), wound on a 3+ and don't ignore invulnerable saves or cause instant death. 14 * 2/3 * 2/3 * 1/3 = expect to cause maybe 2 wounds. So yeah, you might kill 1 55 point Thunder wolf? It's not that scary, really, as far as I can tell.

 

I don't think they're unkillable, but for the point cost they're pretty rock'n.

[Emperors Immortals]

For the point cost there just nasty. I'm thinking roughly 9 autocannons in an AM army, a full NoiseMarine blasted squad or a decvked out warp spider unit to remove about one TW per round. Very durable.

 

Note ; rough numbers only.

[skeletoro]

Are AM autocannons typically BS3? That would be 1/2 * 5/6 * 1/3 = 5/36 expected wounds per shot, so roughly 7 shots (3.5 autocannons) per wound, so 7 autocannons to kill about 1 TWC (and no invuln needed for this one).

[SonOfThunder]

If it's 7 shots per wound, that's 14 shots per TWC

Edit: Doh!

[skeletoro]

Yeah so 7 autocannons as they fire twice

[Grimtooth]

With regards to wolf guard in power armor, take a page from vanguard veterans- keep the expensive wargear spread out, and you don't need too many of each weapon. Say, 2 storm shields, 2 power axes.

The same could be said of TWC. Especially with all attacks having Rending, the need for over-equipping is not needed.

[skeletoro]

Though rending does muddy the waters a little, it's really not the same thing at all.

 

15 points for a storm shield gives a 3++ save to two T5 wounds. A TWC is more like 2 wolf guard in terms of survivability. 36 points gets you two wounds worth of wolf guard but to protect those two wounds costs 30 points because you have to buy 2 shields.

 

20 points for a frost sword boosts a wolf guard's 4 (charging) attacks to make them strength 5 and AP3. Each hit will cause 1/6th of a wound extra against toughness 3, 4, 5 or 6. Against a marine, the attack will deny a 3+ save due to AP, so instead of causing 4*1/2*1/2*1/3 = 1/3 of a wound, that same wolf guard will cause 4*1/2*2/3 = 4/3 of a wound. 20 points for an extra MEQ wound caused.

 

That same frost sword boosts a TWC's 6 attacks similarly. A to wound result of 6 is unchanged because of rending. (6*1/2*1/6 = 1/2 of a wound) No change to the hammer of wrath attack either. (2/3*1/3 = 2/9 of a wound). However, the rest of the damage (not counting rending wounds) is affected by the frost sword. Without: 6*1/2*1/2*1/3= 1/2 of a wound. With: 6*1/2*2/3= 2 wounds. 20 points for an extra 1.5 MEQ wounds caused.

 

So you get about 50% more benefit giving a frost sword to a thunder wolf.

[Teetengee]

Does a thunderwolf's rending apply to meltabombs?

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

It seems like it to me as a melta bombs are a close combat attack and all of the close combat attacks get rending.

[Squark]

Rending on a meltabomb is pointless, though. Armored Ceramite doesn't seem work on armorbane, and a roll of six to penetrate with a meltabomb guarantees a penetrating hit.