Struggling with white

[minigun762]

Specifically on vehicles.

 

Black primer, 2-3 coats of Vallejo"cold grey" then I start with the white (ivory actually).

The first 2-3 coats are thinned down but come out streaky. The next 2-3 coats are not thinned and the whole thing loses detail and becomes a block. Can't seem to find the balance I need

 

(Note, this is paint brush not air brush)

[Subtle Discord]

I'd call shenanigans on the Black primer to start; you're putting so many layers on just to turn the Black to a pale starting colour that you're already several layers up before you're even putting actual final paint on the model. Try starting with a light Grey or a White primer and you've removed the need for at least half of those layers.

 

Unfortunately, pale colours on large uniform pieces really befit from the even coverage of an air brush. They are going to be tricky to do with a brush. Not impossible, but you must use a broad, good quality, brush and work in nothing but thin layers. The paint will be splochy and mottled for many layers as you build up, but as it comes together you can concentrate thin layers on the uneven spots until the coverage is smooth. Thicker layers may speed the process, but as you've seen they build up faster then you might think, and detail starts to suffer. It can/will be grueling for larger vehicles, but there's little choice.

 

Edit: P.S. When you're building up thin layers, let them try completely before adding additional layers. It can be tempting to go in and 'tweak that spot that looks like crap now that the paint is drying', but don't do it. Let the uneven spot dry totally and then add a layer to deal with the problem. Slow and steady wins the race.

[Chaeron]

Can't see the logic in a black primer, unless it's a really specific white you're going for. Just seems as though it's several redundant layers or steps! What white are you looking to achieve?

[Grand Master Laertes]

Subtle Discord said pretty much anything on the subject, but there's another tip that could help you: when painting large flat surfaces, do not apply every layer going in the same direction. I mean, if you paint the first layer brushing from the front to the rear of the veichle, apply the second one with a perpendicular motion, and so on. This way you should be able to avoid the direction of the brush strokes showing up if anything goes wrong.

[sockwithaticket]

Yep, Subtle Dsicord has covered most of what you need to know. As someone who uses white as a secondary colour on largely black marines here's what I do (now) :

Vallejo Game Colour Ghost Grey 2-3 layers (surprisingly good coverage over black)

Ceramite White 2 -3 layers

Vallejo Model Colour White 2 - 3 layers.

Done.

[SvenONE]

The issue I see with most white (mine included) is a matter of contrast and highlights. If you think about it, pure white doesn't really exist in the real world, everything is taking on a color temperature of whatever is lighting it. Sunlight, Fluorescent, Tungsten, LED etc. Painting white is about being able to leave enough of a color range so you can still have a shadow/base/highlight object. To me, when you base with an ivory, you have a "warm" white. Whereas something like Celestra Grey or Ulthuan Grey are "cool" I think it's hard to highlight a warm white without really making it stand out as warm. After all if you highlight a warm color with pure white, it's going to increase the contrast and make that warm color appear warmer. Consider this as an example:

http://i.imgur.com/Au6vjZM.png

That's the same "ivory" that I found, it may not be the same pigment that you have, but for the purpose of the example you see how the contrast of black/20% black/white changes the way the Ivory is perceived. So if your white isn't feeling "white" enough, I'd say try priming white, using a dark grey as a basecoat, lay down a cooler/lighter white just shy of the edges of a model, and then mix that color with pure white for highlights, leaving pure white for corners where specularity would be the most extrme. White is not easy, that's why I don't paint it

Unfortunately, pale colours on large uniform pieces really befit from the even coverage of an air brush. They are going to be tricky to do with a brush. Not impossible, but you must use a broad, good quality, brush and work in nothing but thin layers. The paint will be splochy and mottled for many layers as you build up, but as it comes together you can concentrate thin layers on the uneven spots until the coverage is smooth. Thicker layers may speed the process, but as you've seen they build up faster then you might think, and detail starts to suffer. It can/will be grueling for larger vehicles, but there's little choice.

Edit: P.S. When you're building up thin layers, let them try completely before adding additional layers. It can be tempting to go in and 'tweak that spot that looks like crap now that the paint is drying', but don't do it. Let the uneven spot dry totally and then add a layer to deal with the problem. Slow and steady wins the race.

This is pretty much why I'm taking a X amount of years hiatus from painting anymore Deathwing/Bone colored models without use of an airbrush or spray on base coat. The pale colors are so unforgiving (wordplay!) if applied too thickly. The sheer amount of thin coats required to cover, and evenly cover at that, a black basecoat/primer with a brush will significantly increase the time spent simply base coating. Not to mention that black by virtue of being black will darken your white that you're putting over it, let the washes in the corners create the contrast.

The part about the uneven/touch up spot is true, whatever you do don't run a brush over the area you'll pull the paint off and end up with a blank spot. AHHHH FLASHBACKS.

[tvih]

White... such a pain in the butt. All the white sprays I manage to find suck, and at least GW's white paint pots suck too. While I love the tabards on my BT models and like the black & white shoulders, I do NOT love painting the white in them. Compared to all other painting, it's an annoying chore, sadly! I guess I ought to paint more Crimson Fists instead

[Lawgiver 67]

Try Light grey primer by Floquil.  It goes on very clean and dries to a smooth satin finish that accepts paint really well. Then just build up thined layers of white until you have a smooth finish.

[minigun762]

I should've been more clear.

It's Black Templars vehicles so they're predominantly black (hence the primer choice)

[Theis]

Prime white then mask off the areas you want to keep white before spraying on the black base coat with an airbrush or can? Alternately, then using some greys as an intermediate layer over the black, before white layers, is probably the easiest approach. 

 

A number of folks have gone over their recipe for that. So, I won't bore you with mine, as it's largely identical to theirs.

 

I will say that an airbrush was the best investment I've made in the hobby. My first airbrush and compressor were about 200 dollars combined, and they still work, several years later, though I've since upgraded both. For vehicles in particular it should make the white areas much easier. Do the black as normal, then mask off what you don't want to be white, grey primer, then white layers 'til you're satisfied.

 

I wouldn't have ever started my pre-heresy World Eaters without access to one. Even with an airbrush, all the layers of white make the figs take about twice as long as a "normal" color scheme does.

[minigun762]

I don't forsee the budget for an air brush in the future but I'll try the idea of separate primers.

 

As far as painting, I'll try the combination of 1) painting only with thin coats 2) painting in all directions and 3) letting each coat fully dry

[Subtle Discord]

If you're impatient, an old/cheap hair drier can be worth its weight in gold. Great for speeding paint dry time, not so good for washes, which will be more prone to getting 'drying rings' if you use warm air. Even a small fan blowing air over the model speeds drying time considerably.

 

Get a high pigment foundation colour that fits with the white you're going for and you should be able to block out black in just 2 coats and a bit of touch-up. High pigment paints really do cover surprisingly well, but they tend to settle and need vigorous mixing if they've been sitting. Use the right colour and just move to white or near-white once the back is blocked and the pale base can be your shadowing colour for the white.

[SW1]

As far as painting, I'll try the combination of 1) painting only with thin coats 2) painting in all directions and 3) letting each coat fully dry

This should see some positive results. ;)

[minigun762]

I very much appreciate the advice. Painting is still an intimidating thing for me and I'm happy to have any and all of the advice I can get.

[Forté]

My way uses Astronomican grey. Shade with very thin Fang but only the deepest areas. Highlight Vallejo sky grey. Final extreme highlight of white.

 

Basically, white is only ever really white where light catches it. Look at white cars next time you're out ;)

 

And make sure your water is completely clean, thin your paint with medium on a pallet, and use a clean brush :tu:

[Kriegsmacht]

I just painted my Wight kings cloak white. I basecoated him with Army Painters Uniform Grey spray then when it came time to paint the cloak I just used thinned ceramite white a few times. Only thing is the grey is still showing a bit through the white but I'm fine with that because he's an undead lord and I'm gonna paint either soft tone or strong tone ink(again army painter) on it to dirty it up a bit.

 

For skulls I paint bleach bone first then white. Both Works well for my in my situation so hopefully works for you as well.