Help moving from 3rd ed to 7th ed

[Truls]

Hello all!

 

I left 40k quite some years ago. First it was because I found 6th ed fantasy more fun, but then I stopped doing that as well, and I haven't played any GW game for in 5-6 years. I got the itch again this summer, dusted off my old Iron Warriors, ordered a bunch of Space Marines, the codex and the rule book. I'm back, baby!

 

But then I ran into some problems... I've read the rules and the SM codex, but some new rules and tweaks have left me puzzled and I can't for the life of me figure them out. So, I'm hoping you guys could help me understand some issues..

 

If there's any old-timers around, I left 40k some time after the introduction of the new assault rules in 3rd ed. I remember the introduction of the new vehicle rules, but I can't remember if I played with them. In any event, I didn't play a lot with them. So, that plus reading the new rulebook is basically where I stand. On to the specific questions!

 

1. Snipers

What's the deal with snipers now? It used to be hit on 2's, wound on 4's and full armour save before, which made them perfect for monster and wraithlord hunting. I am unsure of what they do now. Do they use ballistic skill now? I can't see it written anywhere that they increase your likelyhood of hitting, so what's the point of them now?

 

2. Wound allocation

This one is big and confusing... If a wound is allocated to a special/heavy weapon guy, is the special weapon lost now? It used to be that some other guy in the squad picked up the special weapon in the event that the guy carrying it got killed, is this rule gone now? And since you start allocating at the front, does this mean that I have to hide them in the middle of blobs now?

 

3. Wound allocation with different saves

I have a box of Vanguard vets, and I'm thinking it would be a good idea to give them some storm shields as they're bound to attract some fire. However, with the new wound allocation I am unsure of how many I would need to give them to in order to get a proper benefit. With the old rules I could give them to 50%+1 and everything would be fine. Now I'm not so sure. If I give it to just one guy, and then parade him in front of the squad, am I correct in thinking that the enemy would have to chew through his invulnerable save before he can whack my squishier ones?

 

4. Vehicle damage

Okay, all vehicles have hp you have to chew through before the vehicle is busted, typically 3. I am unsure of whether this makes them harder or easier to kill, since each glancing hit removes one hp, meaning 3 glances and it's dead. However, you can only stun and shake if you penetrate? Am I correct in thinking that vehicles last a bit longer, but shaking and stunning is rather rare now?

 

Further, am I correct in thinking that only AP1 and 2 weapons can make a tank explode?

 

5. Vehicle moving

Allright, I give up. There's just so many ways of moving a vehicle now my head is spinning. Flat out, combat speed, cruising, turbo, x number of weapons are snap shots, I give up. I get that(like most other stuff, a change I love) vehicles can move more and still fire to full effect. What I can't figure out is just how much. If I take my predator with sponsons, how much can I move while still blasting at full effect? How much can I move and still fire something? And taking my Iron Warriors Basilisk, I seem to understand that this one can also move and fire its big gun? AND fire the heavy bolter as well? How?

 

6. Transports

I've been reading through a bunch of forums and such, and they all seem to advocate putting a big squad in a transport and drive it around shooting stuff. What I can't understand is how it makes sense to put a big squad in a vehicle when you can only fire two guns? Is there a rule here I'm missing? It seems like people are missing out on 8/10's of the squads firepower...

 

7. Squadrons

So, some vehicles, like speeders, now operate in squadrons. Apart from using less slots on the FOC, is there any benefit in having them as one squadron? Say all the fast attack I'm going to take is 3 speeders. Is there any sense in having them in a squadron as opposed to 3 single speeders?

 

8. Assault

Apparently, assault is weak now. Why? I can't seem to find how assaulting is underpowered. Al I can see is the introduction of overwatch. Does that really make that much of a difference? Hitting on 6's, it's going to be basically only the standard firearms that stand a chance of hitting(plus the slightly improved ones, like a heavy bolter)... So, it's basically an extra attack for the defender, just like the attacker gets an extra attack. Why is this so weak? Also, am I correct in thinking that there are no restrictions on overwatch except for the no blast-thing? Ie. there's no "can't shoot if within half charge distance" like the stand and shoot reaction in fantasy?

 

9. Force organization

I get that Unbound armies allow you to field whatever. I'm an oldschool guy, so I won't be bothering with that. Also, I really really like restrictions.. Is the force organization chart the same as it was? The rulebook keeps going on about "battle-forged", but I can't see how it's any different to the old way. Is there a difference?

 

10. Formations

This seems to be apocalypse related stuff. I'm going to be playing standard size stuff, so I'm wondering if the formations are something I have to bother with? Can I just skip the entire thing?

 

Phew, that was a lot! Allright, enough from me for now. Thanks in advance to everyone who responds! I'll appreciate any answers from thorough explanations, to simple yes/no's to "go back to fantasy, ya idiot".

[DobbyKroket]

1 hitting on BS, wounding on fours rending on sixes (no armour save)

 

2 flamer guy killed? ===> flamer is lost

 

3 if there is 1 storm shield you roll 3++ until he dies, then you roll the other saves

 

4 I don't know (explode does need ap1/2)

 

5 just read and reread

 

6 don't know either

 

7 if it's your only FA choice there is no point but now you can have max 9 instead of 3

 

8 don't know why its concidered weak, it's easier to destroy whole squads (overrun) and no, no restrictions exept for blast

 

9 battle-forged is the FOC it's called so becouse they can't really use FOC in the rulebook

 

10 it used to be, if I understand it correctly you can now use it in "vanilla 40K" as well

 

rps

[Dam13n]

1. Snipers

They now hit on BS with 6s being placed by the firer, they wound on 4s with 6s ignoring armour.

 

2. Wound allocation

Essentially, yes. Once a Specialist / Heavy Weapon Trooper is dead, his weapon goes with him. You now allocate to the model closest to the enemy unit that is firing at you, so it is advisable to hide the good stuff in the middle, or at the back, depending on the army you are facing.

 

3. Wound allocation with different saves

You are right, in that a single model with a Storm Shield at the front can "tank" for his squad until he is dead. However, any sensible player will fire their poor-AP weapons at such a target first (his 3++ is no better than a 3+ against such weapons), thus killing him and allowing their better weapons to kill your remaining men with impunity.

 

4. Vehicle damage

With the changes to the damage chart as well, vehicles tend to last longer in 7th than they did in 6th. The changes to the way Glances work does mean that vehicles tend to be more likely to stay functional until they die, as opposed to spending much of the game shaken or stunned, and thus largely useless.

 

Further, am I correct in thinking that only AP1 and 2 weapons can make a tank explode?

Open-topped vehicles also suffer a +1 on the damage chart, so they can be killed by any AP.

 

5. Vehicle moving

There is a nice table in the summary at the back that explains this succinctly (on page 201 of the BWB)

 

6. Transports

Those that advocate such tactics are usually people who run armies with open-topped transports (like Orks and Dark Eldar) as all passengers can fire from such a vehicle.

 

7. Squadrons

Certain missions over victory points for complete units killed. A squadron of 3 speeders will offer 1VP, while 3 individual speeders would offer 3VPs.

 

8. Assault

This is one of the "interwebz" favourite little hobby-horses. Assault isn't inherently weak, however with the way shooting works in the new edition, as well as the random charge distances, and inability to assault out of most transports. It is more difficult to get into combat.

 

9. Force organization

The "Combined Arms" detachment is pretty much the same as the one from back in 3rd edition. Battle-forged is a bonus granted by your army not being unbound (keeping to Detachment / Formation restrictions). What that bonus is will depend on which detachment / formation you are using.

 

10. Formations

Formations are now everywhere, even in normal games of 40k. But of course you can skip them. There is nothing saying you have to use them. Your opponent however may want to use them, so it's worth knowing a little about them and how they work.

[Truls]

Thanks both of you, that cleared up a lot! Especially that nifty table; I assumed it was as useless as it used to be(ie. barely more than the to hit/wound tables of 3rd ed...), so I just skipped over it. That was a mistake! I do wonder about one more thing though... The rulebook says the following, under "Vehicles in the shooting phase":

 

"Vehicles can move and fire with Ordnance weapons. However, a vehicle that fires an Ordnance weapon can only make Snap Shots with its other weapons that turn."

 

So, my basilisk(yeah, I know it's probably removed from the CSM list by now...) can move and fire its Earthshaker, fine. But does this mean that whenever it fires its earthshaker gun, whether it moved or not, it can only snap shoot its heavy bolter? Or does it mean that it can only fire snap shots whenever it moves and fires the Earthshaker?

 

EDIT: the super-heavy shooting entry seems to imply that firing an ordnance weapon forces all other weapons to make snap shots, regardless of moving... Oh well, I guess it's better than 3rd ed "Ordnance and nothing else"...

 

It seems to imply that other weapons can only ever fire snap shots if an Ordnance is fired, but the positioning of the rule just under the move and fire rules is a bit confusing...

 

Also, the only difference between a fast vehicle and a normal one seems to be its flat-out move. If it wishes to fire in the shooting phase, it can only move at the same speed as any other vehicle(except heavy). It can just fire more weapons when moving those 12". Correct?

 

Finally, the rules for moving flat out says that "you take dangerous terrain tests as normal". Does this mean that you take a test whenever you move flat out, or just if you move flat out into something sticky?

[Grey Mage]

Just if you move flat out into something sticky. As opposed to say running, which ignores difficult terrain.

And yes, sadly, if you fire any ordnance weapons moving or not it seems you snap fire all other weapons- making plasma cannon sponsons a bit of a problem for some leman russ, etc etc.

Theres alot of 2nd ed elements back in the game.

[Dam13n]

You seem to have answered your own first question there...

 

Fast vehicles are also able to fire more weapons (at full BS) than a "normal" vehicle whilst on the move.  Equating to all weapons at combat speed and 2 weapons at cruising speed (as opposed to 1 and 0 respectively with a "normal" vehicle).

 

You would only take the Dangerous Terrain test if you went into "something sticky" as you put it.

[Quixus]

Also, the only difference between a fast vehicle and a normal one seems to be its flat-out move. If it wishes to fire in the shooting phase, it can only move at the same speed as any other vehicle(except heavy). It can just fire more weapons when moving those 12". Correct?

Fast vehicles can fire all weapons if they remained stationary or if they moved at combat speed. If they moved at cruising speed they can fire two weapons at full BS and the rest as Snap Shots.

 

Finally, the rules for moving flat out says that "you take dangerous terrain tests as normal". Does this mean that you take a test whenever you move flat out, or just if you move flat out into something sticky?

The latter.

[Truls]

Theres alot of 2nd ed elements back in the game.

 

I have noticed that, and I give it a big thumbs up. In fact, I heard about it before I made the decision to start up again - and it was a major factor in my decision to do so... Even psykers look fun now! Powers you can actually use, not just something you take for the force weapon!

 

I think I've cleared up all of my puzzles now, thanks a lot to all of you!

 

I have to say though, that this edition seems to label a lot of things. For example, move 6" is called "combat speed", hitting on 6's is called "snap shots", "witchfire", "focused witchfire", and so on... I'm sure it makes stuff a whole lot easier to navigate once you've learned all the terms, but boy does it cause a lot of flipping back and forth first time you're trying to learn the rules!

[Teetengee]

As I have been on a Khorne kick for a while here I figured I would talk about assaults. You can no longer assault out of vehicles*, out of infiltrate, or out of any form of reserves. Fleet doesn't increase your maximum assault range any more. You can't consolidate from one combat into another. Charging flame weapons can be dangerous. Charge distance is greater, but less reliable. Terrain decreases your max assault range. The vast majority of methods for moving your opponents around are gone.

 

*Assault Vehicles allow you to assault out of them, but most can't move full speed and do so.

 

Winning assaults is not the issue. Getting to assaults is now hugely more difficult.