Noctus Cornix Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Good evening, brothers and sisters. So I have a bit of a question for you guys. I've playing around with the idea of creating a Blood Angels Successor Chapter and unlike most, I'm a huge advocate of making DIY Special Characters using pre-existing character rules. Now, an idea that struck me was for this particular Chapter is to have the very Chapter Master having fallen to the Black Rage, but is this very strange and disturbing version of it, quiet and lax, almost utterly silent as he slaughters across the battlefield like an avatar of death. Any time he's not in battle, he's likely left in solitude in his tower or chained up in warp transit. Now the idea is that, given the nature of the character and his purpose, I think he would make an excellent counts as for Sanguinor. That being said, I came across something I wanted opinions on. In the FAQ, the Glaive Encarmine has been registered as being able to be a sword or an axe and its up to the player to decide unless the listing states otherwise. Sanguinor is listed as having a Glaive Encarmine but no where have I seen it stating that it should be a sword. Now, rules of common sense would clearly dictate that if you are indeed using Sanguinor and his base model, you should use a sword, but what about if you converted an axe onto him? Essentially what I'd like to know is this. IF I create a completely custom made counts as Sanguinor model fitted with a Glaive Encarmine Axe, by the rules, do you guys think that would be acceptable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 It's a sword because the model comes with a sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grotsmasha Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 It's a sword because the model comes with a sword. Unless you convert it to have an axe. It would still be RAW, as it would still be a Glaive Encarmine. Does the codex specify that it *has* to be a sword though? Personally for me, I'd be no worries, I can however see people being a bit prickly in a Tournament environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsijben Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Acceptable by the rules? Definitely. But some opponents might complain about it because you've changed the model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 We had this discussion a while back and someone asked about it at Games Day. It's a sword because that's what he was designed with. Similarly, Dante is armed with a Power Weapon in the rules, but he has to have an axe for the above reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 I know a lot of us, especially when 6th broke, modelled the powerweapons differently. RAW you're "safe" - but check with your gaming group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Rules iffiness aside, why would you even want to give him an axe? The Sanguinor is a lot like vampire counts in warhammer fantasy, killy but super fragile and best suited to mulching rank and file that can't fight back properly. Don't be fooled by his duelist rules, the only place he'll ever do any good is going up against weak units with MEQ stats or worse. Strike first so you can reduce the number of return attacks and only get hit on 5+ with an almost automatic sweep if you win. Rinse - repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted August 9, 2014 Author Share Posted August 9, 2014 1. Because Axes are cool (its also sort of the weapon of choice for the Chapter) 2. Because I've done some play testing with him (both with a sword and an axe) and he just performed so much better for me with the Axe. He's tough as nails and I delighted in butchering my way though a Grey Knight Terminator squad like they were weeds. Every time I tried to put him up against any kind of MEQ unit, he'd just get mowed down by mass fire or softened up and then bogged by attacks and bodies. He performed much better, atleast for me, as an Elite Squad killer and HQ Hunter. 6 Str 7 attacks on the charge is nothing to snuff at. 3. Because Axes are cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Every time I tried to put him up against any kind of MEQ unit, he'd just get mowed down by mass fire or softened up and then bogged by attacks and bodies. Surivability is his big weakness, axe isn't going to change the fact he's as easy to kill as 3 terminators. Do you deploy him from a storm raven? You seem to have an odd local meta if the sanguinor can survive going after HQs and elites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaezus Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 He is very easy to wound but his 3++ and EW can make him surprisingly survivable. Personally it's cool to give him an axe, but then it gets me thinking why not just take a better character from another chapter and have him counts as ragee BA. Asterion Moloch would be my choice as he's high S and AP2 but still hits at I6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Commander Scrymgeour Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 You could use astorath? Really, I'm sure the worst that would ever happen is this "So this is my counts as sanquinor, he has an axe" " that's a cool model, but officially he's supposed to have a sword right?" " cool, for this game my counts as sanquinor has a counts as sword, you dig?" " cool" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marine7312000 Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Friendly games the axe shouldn't be a problem. This is part of the reason I've held off so long on equipping my assault squads with the chainaxes I picked up a while back. Red guys with chainaxes? Must be Chaos 'zerkers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 I belive Dante has to be Axe due to FAQ, but for Sanguinor 'look at the model, what does it look like' rule would apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orblivion Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 This one is slightly different to me than Dante. Dante's weapon is actually called an axe, which happens to be a power weapon, while the Sanguinor's weapon specifically has two separate profiles available to it. I wouldn't have a problem with it, but like knife&fork said I wouldn't put an axe on him. Also, what makes you believe that axes are the weapon of choice for the chapter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xmercx Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 looking at both the codex and the faq/errata I would think it would be fine to give him an axe if you wanted. They addressed both Dante and Astorath's axes specifically which were power weapons turned into power axes. The only edit to the glaive encarmine gives you the option to take them as either an axe or a sword. The entry under The Sanguinor directs you to the entry under the Sanguinary Guard which is the one that has been updated. Unless someone that has the digital codex can say otherwise I think you should be good to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 We had this discussion a while back and someone asked about it at Games Day. It's a sword because that's what he was designed with. Similarly, Dante is armed with a Power Weapon in the rules, but he has to have an axe for the above reason. My Dante used to be armed with a sword (in fact I liked the look better with a sword and will likely go back to it). The FAQ says its an axe, so its an axe that looks like a sword. I don't like to use the idea of what the model comes with. Nothing in the rules says Mephiston has a sword or Sanguinor has a sword. Model it as an axe and have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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