New Codex - Tips and Tricks?

[irwit]

 

 

Personally I think it is a good idea as your opponent will usually have to completely overkill to finish him off,  especially when he is in terminator armour.  

 

I wouldn't be so sure about that. I could see him get shot up by a spare storm bolter or objective camping unit with nothing better to do. He's not much of a threat without scoring.

 

Spamming a single model unit like that could easily backfire in terms of objectives or someone using him to slingshot in the assault phase. 

 

You cant ignore him though,  in TDA he will rip through a tactical squad no problem.   Give him a powerfist and theres probably not much he wont take out.  

[skeletoro]

Cheap lone wolf spam is kinda a funny idea. Assuming you want TDA for the deep strike...

 

50 points to get TDA, storm bolter and power axe. You're going to die twice as fast to AP2, but you get them for only 2/3 the price of the TH/SS version and they can still deep strike.

 

That 50 point guy could always switch his power weapon for a storm bolter. The 'pure tarpit' LW is a curious beast. Still only 50 points; he's a bit of a gimp with virtually no offensive power. But he's still perfectly capable of locking an enemy unit in combat, and he may not do much damage but hey, you're getting more tarpit for your points.

 

You could always throw in a combi-melta. The nice thing about this is that if you can shoot the turn you arrive (assuming you land in range) while a thunder hammer would do nothing until turn 3 at the earliest. And you can still tarpit - you are just not going to cause much harm in cc (just waste their time). Melta bombs are also an option but I think the combi melta's shooting attack (a turn earlier) is more useful, even though it is one shot.

 

65 points to get a WC/SS. WC may not be the best weapon choice for this unit but it is the cheapest option that retains the Storm shield. If all you want to do is lock enemies in combat, well, this model has the same survivability as the 75pt TH version (more if you kill a model before it gets to strike you in an assault). And really, do you expect your opponent to voluntarily tar pit YOU with a walker/MC? You don't need to worry about that - they'd be playing right into your hand. And these guys are a smidgen cheaper. It may not seem like much, but 3 of these are 195 while 3 with the TH would be 225. Perhaps worth considering.

[BT_Cennar]

Guys in regard of LWs . The rules say he is never a scoring unit.. does that also apply to LWs not granting points? Say first blood or wipe out enemy unit etc. They are "easy" to kill on their own if left barebone.

[knife&fork]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Even if he's non scoring he still gives out points.

 

A squad of guardians can pop him with a casual glance. He'll become a liability for first blood and various maelstrom cards the enemy can draw.

The distraction lonewolf worked better in the old dex simply because of the reverse VPs.

[BT_Cennar]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Even if he's non scoring he still gives out points.

 

A squad of guardians can pop him with a casual glance. He'll become a liability for first blood and various maelstrom cards the enemy can draw.

The distraction lonewolf worked better in the old dex simply because of the reverse VPs.

That was exact my point , thanks. So while not giving us a score or VP if he dies he does now to our enemy. Hardly to justify taking LWs then. They are just an easy kill and cant even be a late game objective denier.

[Valor]

By the time he deep strikes and the opponent can shoot or assault him, three player turns will have gone by. I think it is very unlikely that a Lone Wolf will give up first blood.

[knife&fork]

If you pod him he could get popped on turn one. Even so it happens now and then that the first blood drags on and he's always a very nice target for maelstrom cards.

 

Not saying that he's completely useless, just not the best way to spend points.

 

 

 

EDIT: Seems low, have you factored in 'bladestorm'? What kind of gear do you use for the LW?

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

[skeletoro]

Ok so a guardian has a 2/3 * ( 1/3 * 1/6 + 1/6 * 1/3) * 2/3 = 4/81 chance of scoring a wound with each shuriken.

 

So for 5 guardians, 0 wounds scored (binomial probability) = 1 * 1 * (77/81) ^10 = .603

1 wound scored (following same formula) = 10 * (4/81)^1 * (77/81)^9 = .313

2 or more wounds scored is therefore 1-.603-.313 = .084 - 5 guardians would have an 8.4% chance to kill a Lone Wolf with their shuriken catapults.

 

10 guardians:

0w = 1 * 1 * (77/81) ^20 = .363

1w = 20 * (4/81)^1 * (77/81)^19 = .377

2w = 190 * (4/81)^2 * (77/81)^18 = .186

Overkill = 1-.363-.377-.186 = .074. So you're looking at about a 26% chance of killing the LW.

 

15 guardians:

0w = 1 * 1 * (77/81) ^ 30 = .219

1w = 30 * (4/81)^1 * (77/81)^29 = .341

2w = 435 * (4/81)^2 * (77/81)^28 = .257

Overkill = 1-.219-.341-.257=.183. 15 guardians will kill the LW outright 44% of the time.

 

Assuming my calculations are correct...

 

Is the shooting attacks of a 190 point unit worth throwing away for a 44% chance of killing a 50-75 point model? I'd say only if first blood is up for grabs, or if no other target presents itself. Otherwise, you're forcing the guardians to make a hard choice - either they blow all that firepower on your Lone Wolf or he definitely tar pits them the next turn.

[Valerian]

Send Lone Wolves in during the second wave of Pods, or Teleport in second wave, and some of these issues aren't a factor anymore.

[skeletoro]

If you pod him he could get popped on turn one. Even so it happens now and then that the first blood drags on and he's always a very nice target for maelstrom cards.

 

Not saying that he's completely useless, just not the best way to spend points.

 

 

 

EDIT: Seems low, have you factored in 'bladestorm'? What kind of gear do you use for the LW?

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

Yeah, I gave them a 2/3 chance to hit, and a 2/3 chance of overcoming FnP, yielding a 4/9 chance of succeeding for both. Then I calculated wound/sav for 4s and 5s (1/3*1/6 = 1/18 for TDA) and 6s (1/6*1/3 =1/18 for bladestorm and storm shield), added them together (1/9) and multiplied them by hit/FnP giving 1/9 * 4/9 = 4/81.

 

But yeah, this is a guy with TDA/SS.

[Natanael]

The 55p LW with SS and Combi-Plasma has to be my fav, I think. Drop him behind enemy lines, blast a transport/tank/dread in the rear with the plasma and then hide behind your shield while you wait to tarpit whatever. You wont kill them, they wont kill you. With three or four of them dropping that could be a lot of fun =) 

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

My thunder hammer stormshield model tarp it Ted a thunder hammer stormshield squad for a whole game. Yay challenging

[Squark]

Err... Squads can hit models in challenges if they have no one else to hit.

[Pariah Mk.231]

I guess If you've got 3 HQ and 4 Troop choices in your army you could split then into 2 detachments and still keep your army battleforged. Take a Combined Arms detachment to get a pair of objective holders, pod them in first turn, then in subsequent turns you can use the Unleashed rules to automatically bring in a unit in reserve from that detachment, giving you a better chance of getting your reserves in early.

 

Make the Combined Arms Troops your Hunters and Unleashed Troops either choice and you can spend their first turn disrupting the enemy before moving to objectives while the rest of your army comes in to keep the enemy busy. There isn't even any conflict with the Drop Pod Assault rule as your just halving your number of drop pods, not the drop pods of a single detachment.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Err... Squads can hit models in challenges if they have no one else to hit.

O man just realizing this now. Was this a change in 7th?

[Freman Bloodglaive]

The blizzard shield is a melee weapon, so gives plus 1 attack with the great axe.

 

Everyone knew that of course.

[finzie]

okay I have 2 questions first if I take 0 blood claw units can I take just Lucas the trickster as a troop choice

 

second if I take a squad of Grey Hunters and get them a designated transport of a rhino or a Razorback can I put Lucas the trickster in there with him since he can't join any other units other than bc, I would of course be adding him after deployment

[Freman Bloodglaive]

Yes, it looks like he is a troops choice.

 

You cannot put him in the Rhino with the Grey Hunters. You can put him in the Rhino if the Grey Hunters are not in there at the same time.

[finzie]

Ok next question, if I have Lucas as troop choice, and I have cunning of the wolf special rule. Will he receive +2 to his roll

[irwit]

Does he have the independent character special rule? If so then yes :) 

[finzie]

Yes he does, but it's he really joining a unit, or can you count himself as the unit

[irwit]

If you are running him on his own then no as theres no independent character attached to him,  if you attach him to bloodclaws then yes,  you get +2.  

[DanPesci]

 

Err... Squads can hit models in challenges if they have no one else to hit.

O man just realizing this now. Was this a change in 7th?

 

 

Must be, i remember reading that wounds from challenges now spill over onto the squad (stopping youmaking say, abbadon useless by challenging him with a 1 wound sarge for example), so wouldnt be surprised if it worked the other way. Still catching up on 7th though

[SonOfThunder]

Yes, challenges are more like a wound allocation mechanic now, so that wounds within a challenge are allocated first to the characters locked in the challenge, and wounds from outside the challenge are allocated first to miniatures not locked in the challenge. Nothing stops the rest of the combat from affecting the challenge, or extra wounds from the challenge from affecting the rest of the combat.

[Commander_Moustache]

I am writing a review/tactics article myself if anyone wants to have a look.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294972-new-codex-review/

 

See if you agree with me and notice any tricks you havent spotted yet although here is one from  my article.

 

Since servators can be bought in units of 1 and on thier own, spend 10pts, hide him in terrain on the home objective and force yoru opponant to wastet firepower or a unit to go get him off it to stop him from capturing the objective.