Another which Legion post...

[Lord Tarkin]

Ah okay, so after Vulkan was found they had time to rebuild themselves up to being stronger than the Raven Guard?

As far as I know, the Salamanders were always noted as having few marines in their legion. Their small numbers rivaled that of the Emperors Children.

[Daemon2027]

Thanks for your replies guys.

After some grumbling, the Sorting Helmet says, "Raven Guard!"

As you said, it was one of your first loves, your comfortable with the scheme plus have a feeling of challenge not to allow it to get boring. Own it!

It's not just black. As shown on the vet sergeant., tactical, assault and recon marines above, it's black, grey, and white!

Make it so!

Sorting hat, sounds like dark age sorcery to me. Report to the chaplain at ones.

*drags Axe on wall*

Who said, 'Codex'?

Whats a codex, sounds like something Guiliman would write. Will never catch on.

On topic, those three legions are the ones I was stuck between. So I'm just doing all 3 ;)

This. Maybe you can make some "Loyalist" Night Lords and Alpha Legion to go with your Raven Guard. ;)

But the Alpha legion are loyalist....

Ah okay, so after Vulkan was found they had time to rebuild themselves up to being stronger than the Raven Guard?

They had an influx from new recruits from Nocturne, but the biggest factor is the battle of gate forty-two which left the Raven Guard as the smallest of the legions.

So, the Alpha Legion are better left as a smaller kill team force, I think I knew that before I posted. That leaves Raven Guard and Night Lords. You are all right of course, it doesn't matter so much about the colours, looking in Extermination there is a definite range from dark grey through to black, plus the white. So what's stopping me committing with them. I'm not sure, I do think the horrible background is just clouding me a bit.

Night Lords, I am in the same boat. I love them, with the exception of their most extreme pursuits, which is a key part of their nature.

In a sense they are two sides of a coin, both live in and embrace the shadows, both are dark natured, both are driven by a lust for justice, and both will do what must be done. The difference lies in the method, the Night Lords are extreme, while the Raven Guard tend to hold back, although the Terran XIX legions are probably closer to the Night Lords line.

In modelling terms I will build similar armies, heavy recon elements, rapid response troops, and hard hitting elites backed up by mobile armour and artillery. The Raven Guard would be more functional in terms of war gear, the Night Lords would be more brutal, but there would a bit of both styles in both.

Background wise I see a force of Terrans, hated, rejected, and and forgotten by their farther, sitting in the darkness of the void, watching the chaos unfold, trying to decide where their loyalties lie. With the Emperor who rose them out of the darkness, or with Horus who accepts them for who they are.

[Marshal Rohr]

If you want to make an elite kill team, you can pick any legion. Alpha Legion Headhunters, Raven Guard Mor Deythan, and Night Lords Terror Squads are all well and good, but since the rules are so fluid you could do it with a Recon, Veteran, or Seeker Squad from any legion. Darth Potato came up with extensive fluff for Imperial Fist Pathfinders, I came up with Imperial Fist Jaeger Recon Squads.

 

You can do anything you want, really. A legion doesn't just have one theme. For every Alpha Legion infiltration cell there is a mechanized infantry company. For every Mor Deythan team, you've got a Raven Guard Terminator Century. Don't let you decision come down to which has the sneakiest SOF, because eventually you'll just pick one of the others, and keep changing your mind. Pick the legion that you identify most with and build that one.

[Daemon2027]

That is good advice. While I do want a recon army with some kill team style units, that wasn't t the only reason for picking the Night Lords or Raven Guards. I like the darkness they both shroud themselves in. Saying that, I think I will re read the legion backgrounds and see what jumps out at me.

[Hyaenidae]

 

Ah okay, so after Vulkan was found they had time to rebuild themselves up to being stronger than the Raven Guard?

As far as I know, the Salamanders were always noted as having few marines in their legion. Their small numbers rivaled that of the Emperors Children.

 

 

Indeed. Though Vulkan saved his Legion, and tempered their suicidal self-sacrificing ways into the noble and honourable Legion we all know, their numbers sat around 89,000 Legionaries prior to Istvaan. 

[Fire Golem]

And I completely forgot about the battle of Gate 42 which decimated the Raven Guard, and made them the smallest legion.

[Lord Tarkin]

And I completely forgot about the battle of Gate 42 which decimated the Raven Guard, and made them the smallest legion.

Maybe at that specific time, but the Emperors Children and Thousand Sons were known for having the smallest legions.

[Hyaenidae]

Prior to Istvaan, the EC's sat at about 110,000. After Istvaan, 50,000 estimated.

[Kol Saresk]

 

And I completely forgot about the battle of Gate 42 which decimated the Raven Guard, and made them the smallest legion.

Maybe at that specific time, but the Emperors Children and Thousand Sons were known for having the smallest legions.

 

Erm, yes and no. At one time, the EC, TS, Sallies and RG had all been known as "the smallest Legion". In the case of the EC, Sallies and TS, all three were before their Primarchs were found. Afterwards, the EC, Sallies and TS apparently had numbers reaching above 81,000. I think the EC were somewhere around 90,000 while the Sallies were 89,000 and the TS's numbers are not yet known(As the numbers from A Thousand SOns have not yet been updated). But at the time of Istvaan V(and obviously not counting the post-Prospero TS and post-Istvaan III Traitors), the Raven Guard were the smallest Legion at ~81,000.

 

EDIT: Heathens posted the pre-Istvaan numbers of the III Legion.

[Aqui]

A certain book aside, I quite like the idea that groups within Legions would have small or significant variations of the Legions colours, either to distinguish themselves from the others explicitly (the Flesh Tearers come to mind for example, although I have no idea whether their colours were red/black from the "start"), or simply because of other reasons (such as a simple way of seeing which groups/Chapters are where on a battlefield). In this case, I quite like the scheme of black and grey

[Lord Tarkin]

Prior to Istvaan, the EC's sat at about 110,000. After Istvaan, 50,000 estimated.

Oh, alright. Is there a source pointing out the "smallness" of the Raven Guard? I can't find one.

[Kol Saresk]

 

Prior to Istvaan, the EC's sat at about 110,000. After Istvaan, 50,000 estimated.

Oh, alright. Is there a source pointing out the "smallness" of the Raven Guard? I can't find one.

Forgeworld's Extermination.

[Hyaenidae]

Yep, page 138.

 

Excepting a handful of the exiled Terran XIX Legion "Nomad Predation" fleets, and a few others that were seconded to Rogue Traders and a few others simply called 'Lone Wolves' that were basically outsiders to their own Legion, the Raven Guard numbered 80,000, and were explicitly noted as the smallest Legion prior to Istvaan..

[Kol Saresk]

On that subject, wht page are the predation fleets mentioned?

[Marshal Rohr]

The temptation to do a Raven Guard legionary with a shark sigil is strong.

[Lord Tarkin]

Yep, page 138.

 

Excepting a handful of the exiled Terran XIX Legion "Nomad Predation" fleets, and a few others that were seconded to Rogue Traders and a few others simply called 'Lone Wolves' that were basically outsiders to their own Legion, the Raven Guard numbered 80,000, and were explicitly noted as the smallest Legion prior to Istvaan..

I suppose you are right. I was lead to believe it was the Emperor Children or Thousand Sons but they were only Majorly small before they met their primarch. Like Fulgrim, he only had 200 marines in his legion when he took command of it.

[Hyaenidae]

The Nomad Predation fleets were mentioned on the same page, 138. Also noted on page 140.

 

What I found interesting was that, even after the bloodbath of Istvaan, Corax made no attempt to call back the Predation Fleets at all to bolster his Legion's numbers. He despised their bloody tactics that much.

[Lord Tarkin]

The Nomad Predation fleets were mentioned on the same page, 138. Also noted on page 140.

 

What I found interesting was that, even after the bloodbath of Istvaan, Corax made no attempt to call back the Predation Fleets at all to bolster his Legion's numbers. He despised their bloody tactics that much.

Instead he tried some other stunt. I can't remember the details, something about him trying to clone gene-seed so his legion could quickly join the fight again but the apothecaries of the legion ended up being alpha legion members and the gene-seeds were tainted and mutated and it further destroyed the legion through bloody infighting.

[Kol Saresk]

 

The Nomad Predation fleets were mentioned on the same page, 138. Also noted on page 140.

 

What I found interesting was that, even after the bloodbath of Istvaan, Corax made no attempt to call back the Predation Fleets at all to bolster his Legion's numbers. He despised their bloody tactics that much.

Instead he tried some other stunt. I can't remember the details, something about him trying to clone gene-seed so his legion could quickly join the fight again but the apothecaries of the legion ended up being alpha legion members and the gene-seeds were tainted and mutated and it further destroyed the legion through bloody infighting.

Originally(as in Pre-Gav Thorpe nightmare of nightmares), Corax made actually clones. The problem was that these clones mutated into raven-like monsters who Corax then used as shock troops to break apart well-defended Traitor positions and this went on until after the Scouring. Then, with each of the clones locked in their own cell in the Raven Tower, he went to each with a bolt pistol in one hand and granted them the Emperor's Mercy by his own hand. Shortly after that, he went into self-exile and was lost to Imperial record.

 

Then we get Gav Thorpe. Who decides to have plot-armored Alpha Legion infiltrate the Raven Guard. And Corax instead uses the Emperor's gene-tech to create super gene-seed. Omegon sabotages said gene-seed, which creates the mutants. And then after a series of "almost found out but for the grace of Gav Thorpe" the Alpha Legion infiltrators reveal themselves for the sole purpose of dying.

[Marshal Rohr]

That never happened, Kol. The Weregeld were always clones gone wrong. 

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

This. Maybe you can make some "Loyalist" Night Lords and Alpha Legion to go with your Raven Guard.

Hey, whoa, easy there, chief. What's with the quotation marks, wink, and the sass? Do you doubt the VIII or XX had loyalists?

On topic, the best advice I can offer for your decision is which paint job would you hate to the do the least in large quantities?

[Fire Golem]

The temptation to do a Raven Guard legionary with a shark sigil is strong.

I'm actually going to do this with my RG I think. Like a squad with the tribal Maori patterns on, maybe in a Darkwing Storm Eagle with a shark face on the front.

[Hyaenidae]

 

The temptation to do a Raven Guard legionary with a shark sigil is strong.

I'm actually going to do this with my RG I think. Like a squad with the tribal Maori patterns on, maybe in a Darkwing Storm Eagle with a shark face on the front.

 

http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee410/TheRedThirst/XIX_Legion_Vet_zpsf2a01851.jpg

[Fire Golem]

Yes :) but I was only gonna do one squad, would it make sense for a squad to be like that when the rest are the normal scheme?

[Hyaenidae]

Why not? It's up to you to make the history of your company, and the Raven Guard were known for having one hell of a independent streak. 

 

A handful of Terrans who were spared exile due to a more compassionate outlook. A squad of the Ash Blind. A squad who carried the honours of Unification upon their shoulders.

 

It's all up to your imagination.  :)