climbingcog Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Any suggestions on getting Murderfang into combat whilst still being in one piece and with most of his hull points? Obviously use drop pod - and probably include 3-5 drop pods in the whole list? But any ideas beyond that? Is it just about good positioning, right target choice, swamping enemy with other choices? Not used drop pods or dreadnoughts in a long time/ever, so quite unfamiliar with how to use them well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294907-getting-murderfang-into-combat-ideas/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune_Priest_Rhapsody Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 I think target saturation will be a key thing, if not the most important thing to get him into CC. Giving you opponent either closer or scarier targets to deal with will most likely be the best tactic. When I get around to buying/building/playing him, that is the approach I will be taking. I usually run 3 to 5 drop pods and now 2 stormfangs, TWC and TDAWG too!! So really my army is in your face very quickly. And since this codex is really pushing the CC, I have no problem obliging GW and doing just that. Also think about the murdering that murderman Fang will do in the relation to his points cost. I would say that even with the pod, he is a great distraction tactic. He is certainly not something your opponent is going to want in his face, thus placing less heat on your other units. End of Line Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294907-getting-murderfang-into-combat-ideas/#findComment-3772397 Share on other sites More sharing options...
climbingcog Posted August 10, 2014 Author Share Posted August 10, 2014 I think target saturation will be a key thing, if not the most important thing to get him into CC. Giving you opponent either closer or scarier targets to deal with will most likely be the best tactic. When I get around to buying/building/playing him, that is the approach I will be taking. I usually run 3 to 5 drop pods and now 2 stormfangs, TWC and TDAWG too!! So really my army is in your face very quickly. And since this codex is really pushing the CC, I have no problem obliging GW and doing just that. Also think about the murdering that murderman Fang will do in the relation to his points cost. I would say that even with the pod, he is a great distraction tactic. He is certainly not something your opponent is going to want in his face, thus placing less heat on your other units. End of Line Can you show me what your list is like? How do you manage to fit in all those units?!?! Am trying to get an idea of where to get started with new codex but few seasoned players have posted any lists on the list section. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294907-getting-murderfang-into-combat-ideas/#findComment-3772401 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune_Priest_Rhapsody Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Well, I usually play 2000 points and up... And Unbound, as I run very thematic and elite armies. So without my codex I'll put down what I will run and let you do the math. 15 Fen Wolves 15 Fen Wolves 4 TWC -2x SS, PF 5 TDAWG - combis and claws and axes with CML D.Pod 5TDAWG - combis and claws and axes with ass can in a S.Fang 5TDAWG - combi flamers claws with heavy flamer in a S.Fang Murderface D.Pod Bjorn D.Pod Logan I threw together a rough list of what I would ideally play, it may be an insane amount of points, but that's what it would look like. Out of the last codex it was no dreads and no flyers and at least 2 packs of LF's. End of Line Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294907-getting-murderfang-into-combat-ideas/#findComment-3772404 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Not used drop pods or dreadnoughts in a long time/ever, so quite unfamiliar with how to use them well. I've used a ton of these playing BA. Saturation only goes so far and dreads without 'fleet' or 'move through cover' can easily get bogged down in terrain or miss charges. In my experience you probably need an allied storm raven, that's the only reliable way for dreads to see combat. You can either deploy him in hover mode as normal, or if you have locator beacons on the board you can drop him off with 'skies of fury' on the turn you arrive from reserves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294907-getting-murderfang-into-combat-ideas/#findComment-3772410 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squark Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Well, I usually play 2000 points and up... And Unbound, as I run very thematic and elite armies. So without my codex I'll put down what I will run and let you do the math. 15 Fen Wolves 15 Fen Wolves 4 TWC -2x SS, PF 5 TDAWG - combis and claws and axes with CML D.Pod 5TDAWG - combis and claws and axes with ass can in a S.Fang 5TDAWG - combi flamers claws with heavy flamer in a S.Fang Murderface D.Pod Bjorn D.Pod Logan I threw together a rough list of what I would ideally play, it may be an insane amount of points, but that's what it would look like. Out of the last codex it was no dreads and no flyers and at least 2 packs of LF's. End of Line Pretty sure that's a Legal army with Champions of Fenris apart from the excess pods. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294907-getting-murderfang-into-combat-ideas/#findComment-3772411 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Allied Stormraven would be the best way. I actually feel the Axe and Shield Dread is best. 2 of them marching towards the enemy will be tough to deal with and quite scary, and equipped with flamer could deal with hordes also. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294907-getting-murderfang-into-combat-ideas/#findComment-3772426 Share on other sites More sharing options...
climbingcog Posted August 10, 2014 Author Share Posted August 10, 2014 Allied Stormraven would be the best way. I actually feel the Axe and Shield Dread is best. 2 of them marching towards the enemy will be tough to deal with and quite scary, and equipped with flamer could deal with hordes also. What benefit does the Stormraven have? I don't have the Codex for Space Marines so don't know what's on offer. Murderfang has a flamer and storm bolter built in. But yes, the blizzard shield does add more survivability - Murderfang a lot of attacks!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294907-getting-murderfang-into-combat-ideas/#findComment-3772428 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulldogging Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Allied Stormraven would be the best way. I actually feel the Axe and Shield Dread is best. 2 of them marching towards the enemy will be tough to deal with and quite scary, and equipped with flamer could deal with hordes also. What benefit does the Stormraven have? I don't have the Codex for Space Marines so don't know what's on offer. Murderfang has a flamer and storm bolter built in. But yes, the blizzard shield does add more survivability - Murderfang a lot of attacks!!! It can carry a Dreadnought. I agree it is the only reliable way to get into combat with something you actually want it to. Man, Murderfang is so slow. Oh but if the Stormraven gets shot down the Dreadnought is :cussed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294907-getting-murderfang-into-combat-ideas/#findComment-3772430 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonOfThunder Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 The stormraven can carry the dread and it's an assault vehicle. That means that if the raven survives a turn of shooting, the next turn the dread will most likely assault. When coming by pod, the dread itself needs to weather a full turn of shooting, plus the enemy can run away. But the raven will hover 6", the dread will disembark 6" more, and then assault the 2D6", and the dread will only eat overwatch fire, so if that raven, with AV12 and zooming, and potentially jinking, survives a whole turn, the dread will have a pretty easy assault. The problem with the raven is it has to come from reserves, unlike a pod that can guarantee you a turn 1 drop and a turn 2 assault if all goes well. The raven means a turn 3 assault at the earliest, and can be as bad as a turn 5 assault if your reserves rolls are not hot... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294907-getting-murderfang-into-combat-ideas/#findComment-3772441 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorenzen Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Lucius pattern drop pod.. keeps him safe on the turn he drops down (dont get out) then can disembark and assault next turn.. its how im planning on running him Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294907-getting-murderfang-into-combat-ideas/#findComment-3772452 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Stormravens are not easy to shoot down. It can probably kill it's biggest threat the turn it arrives before dropping off the dread. Murderfang is very good IF it reaches cc, you could hide one behind a landraider and move it upfield. Behind the Raider it has 3+ cover lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294907-getting-murderfang-into-combat-ideas/#findComment-3772459 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune_Priest_Rhapsody Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Well, I usually play 2000 points and up... And Unbound, as I run very thematic and elite armies. So without my codex I'll put down what I will run and let you do the math. 15 Fen Wolves 15 Fen Wolves 4 TWC -2x SS, PF 5 TDAWG - combis and claws and axes with CML D.Pod 5TDAWG - combis and claws and axes with ass can in a S.Fang 5TDAWG - combi flamers claws with heavy flamer in a S.Fang Murderface D.Pod Bjorn D.Pod Logan I threw together a rough list of what I would ideally play, it may be an insane amount of points, but that's what it would look like. Out of the last codex it was no dreads and no flyers and at least 2 packs of LF's. End of Line Pretty sure that's a Legal army with Champions of Fenris apart from the excess pods. Please explain??!! I thought Logan no longer made WG troops?? End of Line Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294907-getting-murderfang-into-combat-ideas/#findComment-3772465 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcpolle Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Behind the Raider it has 3+ cover lol Please explain why this is so?? Thx Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294907-getting-murderfang-into-combat-ideas/#findComment-3772487 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper_Hawser Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Rhapsody's list is unbound, that's why it has so many elites. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294907-getting-murderfang-into-combat-ideas/#findComment-3772492 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squark Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Well, I usually play 2000 points and up... And Unbound, as I run very thematic and elite armies. So without my codex I'll put down what I will run and let you do the math. 15 Fen Wolves 15 Fen Wolves 4 TWC -2x SS, PF 5 TDAWG - combis and claws and axes with CML D.Pod 5TDAWG - combis and claws and axes with ass can in a S.Fang 5TDAWG - combi flamers claws with heavy flamer in a S.Fang Murderface D.Pod Bjorn D.Pod Logan I threw together a rough list of what I would ideally play, it may be an insane amount of points, but that's what it would look like. Out of the last codex it was no dreads and no flyers and at least 2 packs of LF's. End of Line Pretty sure that's a Legal army with Champions of Fenris apart from the excess pods. Please explain??!! I thought Logan no longer made WG troops?? End of Line He doesn't. However the supplement has its own unique detqchment with a ton of elites slots (2-8) and only 0-3 troop slots. You give up objective secured still, but it has its own benefits that are great for wolf guard. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294907-getting-murderfang-into-combat-ideas/#findComment-3772497 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Allied Stormraven would be the best way. I actually feel the Axe and Shield Dread is best. 2 of them marching towards the enemy will be tough to deal with and quite scary, and equipped with flamer could deal with hordes also. Unfortunately they only have 2 attacks base. They could spend an entire game fighting a squad of marines or some tarpit unit like gaunts. Volume of attacks is super important. . When coming by pod, the dread itself needs to weather a full turn of shooting, plus the enemy can run away. The problem with using podded close combat dreads is this: You either disembark close enough to make sure the enemy cannot easily run away, but this often means that the enemy is close enough to get behind you and target that rear AV10. or You disembark in a way that protects your rear AV and hopefully provide some cover too, but then you might have problems catching a unit at all. If you must pod a close combat dread it's much better to drop them in your second wave. By that time you have demeched units (which murderfang sucks at anyway), removed some threats/hard counters (melta guns, other walkers or monsters) and hopefully you might already have some enemy units locked in combat he can help finish off. Arriving late is not a huge issue because early on he won't have anything to do. Only getting 4-2 turns of combat is a lot better than just getting blown up on turn one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294907-getting-murderfang-into-combat-ideas/#findComment-3772504 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baulder Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Can't you just chuck him in a FW lucius pod and you're away? You don't need to keep anyone safe, just drop him in the second wave of pods and charge when you land (assault vehicle right?) Lucius pattern drop pod.. keeps him safe on the turn he drops down (dont get out) then can disembark and assault next turn.. its how im planning on running him Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294907-getting-murderfang-into-combat-ideas/#findComment-3772508 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune_Priest_Rhapsody Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Thanks Squark!! Does that count as Battle-forged or only Unbound?? End of Line Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294907-getting-murderfang-into-combat-ideas/#findComment-3772522 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulldogging Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Lucius drop pods haven't allowed assault from reserves in 1-2 years sadly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294907-getting-murderfang-into-combat-ideas/#findComment-3772525 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Gotta say- Ravens for the win. Cannot speak more highly of em! What you can consider too for fluff is BA death company as "counts as" Wulfen, too!! HQ is a little tricky with BA as ours are overcosted - maybe a reclusiarch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294907-getting-murderfang-into-combat-ideas/#findComment-3772528 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squark Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Thanks Squark!! Does that count as Battle-forged or only Unbound?? End of Line Battleforged. Detachments of all kinds are only available in battleforged, I believe. You don't get objective secured, even on the troops, since that's only for the Combined Arms Detachment and Allied detachment described in the main rulebook (And Pedro no matter what he's in, because he's crazy like that) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294907-getting-murderfang-into-combat-ideas/#findComment-3772529 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorenzen Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Lucius drop pods haven't allowed assault from reserves in 1-2 years sadly. Hence why you stay inside it on the turn it drops.. ia2 2nd edition allows this and a lucius is bizarrely open topped and has assault ramps allowing a 2nd turn charge and immunity for the dread as an embarked unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294907-getting-murderfang-into-combat-ideas/#findComment-3772532 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squark Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Granted, poppinv a Lucius isn't too hard, but then, that's firepower that isn't pointed at your dreadnaught. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294907-getting-murderfang-into-combat-ideas/#findComment-3772535 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baulder Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Lucius drop pods haven't allowed assault from reserves in 1-2 years sadly. fair enough, learn something new every day. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294907-getting-murderfang-into-combat-ideas/#findComment-3772537 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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