Blood Claws worth taking?

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Blood Claws.. are now decently cheaper, no longer have the headstrong special rule and no longer require a Character to keep them under control. They have incredible CC potential... are they now cheap enough to take in a list instead of a GH Pack or two? I think they might be. Considering how Pricey GHs have gotten... it's probably best to have dedicated Packs to perform certain tasks. Is it possible we could start seeing GHs used for shooty, and maybe a BC Pack or two for Charging and tarpitting? 

For Comparison 

GH Pack: x10 GHs Bare bones 140 pts
20 Attacks on the charge, 10 in each subsequent round of CC.

BC Pack: x10 BCs Bare bones 120 pts
40 Attacks on the charge, 20 in each subsequent round of CC.


Can someone do the math hammer and figure out what the stats are on wounds coming out of the on the charge and in the other rounds of CC?

Blood Claws to me look like they could keep the cost down all the while providing capable Packs that will have great battlefield effect.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

Yes, I would say that if you're in the market for an assault unit I'd say Blood Claws are now fit for purpose. They're cheap, and come in large enough squads that you can lose a few (or a lot) before they hit combat and still do some damage.

 

Of course the question is still, "do you need assault units?"

 

I'd be more inclined to spend the points to give Grey Hunters close combat weapons rather than buy a separate squad for assault duties, but that's just me.

[Squark]

If you have Stormwolves or land raiders, they can make a real mess. Without them, you're trying to charge while foot slogging (which doesn't work) or taking a round of fire after you drop put of your transport (also unacceptable).

[temneb]

If you get them within 12 inches of the banner it's 55 attacks on the charge! I can certainly see some builds that blood claws would do well with. 2 max squads with flamers and power weapons and wg with something. 3 level 2 rune priests, one with divination and 2 with biomancy. A couple of long fangs and a grey hunter unit with the banner drop podding in the center. I'm re working my list to include the sky claws that have been sitting half finished for years. Will for sure grab a flyer.

[Lord Ragnarok]

As stated they are cheaper(rightfully so, not sure what happened in the previous dex) but you will have to ensure a good delivery system. I'm thinking of two Stormwolves full of BC's to support 2-3 DPing GH packs.

[Valerian]

Blood Claws.. are now decently cheaper, no longer have the headstrong special rule and no longer require a Character to keep them under control. They have incredible CC potential... are they now cheap enough to take in a list instead of a GH Pack or two? I think they might be. Considering how Pricey GHs have gotten... it's probably best to have dedicated Packs to perform certain tasks. Is it possible we could start seeing GHs used for shooty, and maybe a BC Pack or two for Charging and tarpitting? 

 

For Comparison 

 

GH Pack: x10 GHs Bare bones 140 pts

20 Attacks on the charge, 10 in each subsequent round of CC.

 

BC Pack: x10 BCs Bare bones 120 pts

40 Attacks on the charge, 20 in each subsequent round of CC.

 

 

Can someone do the math hammer and figure out what the stats are on wounds coming out of the on the charge and in the other rounds of CC?

 

Blood Claws to me look like they could keep the cost down all the while providing capable Packs that will have great battlefield effect.

 

Absolutely, but as Lord Rags stated, you need the right delivery system, which basically brings you to a Land Raider or Stormwolf.  

 

If you get them within 12 inches of the banner it's 55 attacks on the charge! I can certainly see some builds that blood claws would do well with. 2 max squads with flamers and power weapons and wg with something. 3 level 2 rune priests, one with divination and 2 with biomancy. A couple of long fangs and a grey hunter unit with the banner drop podding in the center. I'm re working my list to include the sky claws that have been sitting half finished for years. Will for sure grab a flyer.

 

It's within 6" of the Standard to get the +1 Attack, 12" to get the Morale/Pinning re-rolls.  So, just a little harder to pull off with placement, but still possible.

[Ishagu]

Imo they are worth it if you plan on running a pseudo horde army focused on cc that is wearing power armour...

 

480 points would get you 40 Marines able to bring the hurt in cc which is pretty amazing. At 2k you still have a huge amount of points to bring other goodies.

[temneb]

I got 75 in a list with 5 level 2 rune priests. With change left over at 1500pts.

 

Thanks Val. 6 inches it is.

[Spazmonkey]

big nerf though losing the land raider as a dedicated transport. it means you have to take the storm wolf for a full pack if you want them in a vehicle. or take the land raider as a heavy choice and start them outside it. otherwise you have to foot slog.

 

buy the look of it only wolf guard can take it as a transport.

[Valerian]

big nerf though losing the land raider as a dedicated transport. it means you have to take the storm wolf for a full pack if you want them in a vehicle. or take the land raider as a heavy choice and start them outside it. 

 

They (the Blood Claws) don't have to start outside of the Heavy Support Land Raider.  I think you must be confused on that point.

 

V

[Spazmonkey]

 

big nerf though losing the land raider as a dedicated transport. it means you have to take the storm wolf for a full pack if you want them in a vehicle. or take the land raider as a heavy choice and start them outside it. 

 

They (the Blood Claws) don't have to start outside of the Heavy Support Land Raider.  I think you must be confused on that point.

 

V

 

Oh really, well i may be. thanks for the clarifaction. that does make it much better. still id like to be able to take 3 heavy and 2 landraiders as dedicated transports. but hey cant complain to much, we gained the flyer as a transport.

 

the idea of 2 crusaiders and 3 vindicators just gets my evil laugh going.....

[Fray]

GH Pack: x10 GHs Bare bones 140 pts

20 Attacks on the charge, 10 in each subsequent round of CC.

 

BC Pack: x10 BCs Bare bones 120 pts

40 Attacks on the charge, 20 in each subsequent round of CC.

 

Using your numbers against MEQ's with 3+ saves:

 

GH - avg 5 wounds, 1.667 unsaved on the charge.  Avg 2.5 wounds, 0.833 unsaved in subsequent rounds (assuming no GH's die)

BC - avg 10 wounds, 3.333 unsaved on the charge.  Avg 5 wounds, 1.667 unsaved in subsequent rounds (assuming no BC's die)

 

I think my math's right but feel free to double check

[Spazmonkey]

personally though i think blood claws shine becasue they are cheap and assault hard. thats why you take them.

I think they finally got it right, blood claws are now worth taking. they are cheap but limited to their role.

 

but grey hunters are still better as they can do more / fill more rolls. but you pay for the pleasure. i would take 10 with power fist, 2 special weapons, the banner and all cc weapons.

sure it comes to around 200 points. but you talking about bs ws 4, with 3 attacks base and 4 on the charge. still able to rapid fire those bolters, / special weapons as well. also able to grate bounses to units within 12 inches, or give an additional attack to units in 6inches.

 

you pay for more because they can do more. dont forget with the higher ws/bs they can also hold an objective easier as well.

[Emperors Immortals]

Charging GH is brutal too, at least one round of fire, usually round of rapid fire plus OW plus counter attack.

 

Possibly the best mid field unit in the game.

[Spazmonkey]

I agree. you take the 2 units for different reasons now. rather than always taking grey hunters. blood claws have a clear role. plus BC make fantastic assault / jump pack troops as well.

[Valerian]

Don't forget that you can safely Deep Strike those Skyclaws now, too, assuming you can keep at least one Locator Beacon equipped Drop Pod alive.  They can't charge the turn that they arrive, but that's the same restriction from arriving other ways for non Jump Pack equipped Blood Claws, unless you invest in the expensive Stormwolf/Land Raider route.

[Urauloth]

I think I actually want a unit of skyclaws now which is a really weird feeling. It's also nice to see that blood claws got fixed, poor buggers really needed that points drop.

[KiltedMarine]

I'm planning on buying two Stormwolves just for the capacity to drop 28 slavering wolf-pups, two WGPLs (who aren't supernumerary anymore), a Wolf Priest, and a Lord or WGBL into close combat on turn three.

 

Expensive? Yes, definitely.

 

But the look on my filthy xenos-loving buddy's face when I out-Ork his Orks will be worth the risk and the money! ;)

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Other than the obvious... not having a full pack size and not being able to charge into assault the turn they arrive, what's wrong with Drop Podding them? It's fluffy for a Drop List, especially since I'm trying to have Ragnars great company be what my Army is modeled after. You could say.. 'well they'll lose numbers before assault once they land,' but the same can be said about any GH Pack that is more CC oriented the turn they arrive, however the GHs would have less attacks even if the Blood Claws lost one or two. 

I like that Blood Claws are good enough now that we can actually run some pretty fluffy lists. 

[skeletoro]

personally I like the idea of pairing a GH pack with wolf standard with a blood claw pack. Add Ulrik liberally and stir.

[Spazmonkey]

Yeah i did some play testing grey hunters with the banner and ccw are mayhem.i was killing an average of 5-7 marines in a turn. And losing 1-3 of my own. Win a wolf priest you'd have to be careful not to wipe them out in your turn and expose them to fire.

[d@n]

Blood claws have never been a bad unit. There was just no justification to take them over gh in the previous codex. I think they will be best used charging out of a storm wolf and taking your opponents objectives. Whilst grey hunters pod in and take midfield objectives.

[Ishagu]

You've hit the nail on the head.

The army is better if you specialise. Dedicate your blood claws as a cheap assault unit, save points on your Grey Hunters and keep them as a midfield, midrange shooting unit.

[Lord Ragnarok]

Other than the obvious... not having a full pack size and not being able to charge into assault the turn they arrive, what's wrong with Drop Podding them? It's fluffy for a Drop List, especially since I'm trying to have Ragnars great company be what my Army is modeled after. You could say.. 'well they'll lose numbers before assault once they land,' but the same can be said about any GH Pack that is more CC oriented the turn they arrive, however the GHs would have less attacks even if the Blood Claws lost one or two. 

I like that Blood Claws are good enough now that we can actually run some pretty fluffy lists.

 

in 4th I dp'd all the time. But this was for extra bodies because gh'so were more expensive. The problem with pod delivery is that it is more reliant on maximizing shooting upon arrival which the BCs do not excel. bringing a wp or rune p. mitigates that somewhat.

[d@n]

You've hit the nail on the head.

The army is better if you specialise. Dedicate your blood claws as a cheap assault unit, save points on your Grey Hunters and keep them as a midfield, midrange shooting unit.

another factor is, it's not easy to clear 15 marines of an objective late in the game and if you take a wolf priest as your warlord then it's going to be near impossible. And if you keep them in a storm wolf until the latter turns then it's very unlikely your opponent is going to gets lay the warlord either. Wolf priest/blood claws seems like a pretty solid unit in a battle forged army backed up by a couple of grey hunter packs podding in to take midfield objectives.