The Legion for you... Community Assistance Thread

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

 

 

Bottom line: if you feel pigeonholed, you're doing something wrong.

 

If you're playing in the Heresy post Istvaan, and you're playing Raven Guard, you will feel pigeonholed. Read Gav's poopy fluff, and you will even more so. Of course, you can deviate from Corax's remaining 3-4000 and do your own thing, but you will lose the feeling of inclusiveness. Which is something. Just sayin'.

 

 

This is the whole point of me saying that the walls you build to keep you from what you want to do are made by yourself. This is just like every single time some new author makes a little change to something and everyone who plays that faction throws up their hands and says "OMG I CAN'T PLAY MY ARMY NOW BECAUSE OF TWO SENTENCES IN THE NEW CODEX! ARRRRRRGGGHHH YOU RUINED IT FOREVER!!!!!!!!". I'm looking at the Black Templars most recently.

 

Who cares?

 

If you're spending hundreds of dollars and countless hours buying, building, and painting an army you love, why would you possibly let the new official fluff make you now look at that army in disgust? What if you'd never read Gav's poopy fluff? What then? Would you still be all googly-eyed over the Raven Guard?

 

I've also got a news flash for a lot of the folks that don't realize this: GW and FW are a business, more specifically a business that wants to sell little figures, and they've said so before that they are a miniature company first and a table top game company second. They're going to change things in order to make new models to make more money.

 

 

I literally wrote out two paragraphs explaining how :cussty the "The only walls blocking your idea for your army are created yourself" comment makes you feel, but decided this wasn't the place to sound like an amateur psychiatrist. Suffice to say I basically thought some people want to follow the characteristics of the legions for a variety of reasons. I for one felt bad after you used that comment on me before.

 

 

I for one agree with WoT, as I too felt slightly annoyed when I was told (far back in the thread) that "This is the heresy, anything is possible", I feel that it doesn't actually help people to come up with ideas themselves seeing as the main point of people coming to this forum is to pool the thoughts of the community and so people don't deserve a one line reply. And although BCK said that he thought people hadn't read the previous pages (personally I had) I feel people still have the same problems, as many of us evidently struggle with creativity.

 

 

So telling you that you have the freedom to do pretty much anything you want to do with the idea or theme for your army is a crappy thing to do and is somehow both unhelpful and limits your creativity? And if you read all of the previous pages, maybe you had already forgotten what me and Hyenas said in the first two posts. Since Kurama already quoted Hyena's post, here's mine:

 

The thing I see the most in these sorts of threads is something along the lines of "I like X Legion and I want to do Y tactics with it, but the fluff(usually 40k type casting) says they're only good at/never use Z".

 

This is a whole new ball game, brothers. All the Legions had access to the same gear, and all of them used whatever tactics were required to do the job. Were some Legions better at different aspects? Sure, each one had a strength, but they were not yet crippled by the inherent weaknesses that came with the breaking of the Legions and overspecialization of the Chapter organization.

 

Something else to consider is figuring out which paint job you would mind painting the least in large quantities.

 

All of this "I wanna follow the characteristics of the Legion!" thing is you still being stuck in the mindset of 40k. The 30k Legions are NOT the Chapters of 40k. Yes, some of the Legions had a tendency toward a particular aspect of fighting, but the Legions were massive armies geared to take on any and all enemies or circumstances, and not the surgical specialist Chapters they would later be divided into.

 

To me it implies that you're not imaginative enough to come up for your own reason, but some people just simply don't want to come up with a reason they want to play within the characteristics of their chosen legion, but supposedly that's bad and you have to open up and accept any legion can do anything and you have to like it.

 

For me I like to theme my armies around the characteristics of the legion as that's the point of the legion without those characteristics there's nothing unique about them to me, that's just the way I see the legions and the way I like it. Some legions are more open to having dedicated companies, such as the Ultramarines, others are less prone. When it comes down to it, it's all about the players own perception on what's acceptable for them to include, some people may disagree on the extent of inclusion, but that doesn't mean they are wrong.

 

Also obviously anything goes isn't entirely true because you can't have destroyers in a Salamanders army and there's numerous restrictions put down in the actual rules that follow along fluff based lines.

 

If you intentionally want to lock yourself down into a specific role for a specific Legion to play, that's fine, but then why did you come to this thread in the first place? We're not here to bully you and things like "but supposedly that's bad and you have to open up and accept any legion can do anything and you have to like it," is simply childish and untrue.

 

 

"Also obviously anything goes isn't entirely true because you can't have destroyers in a Salamanders army and there's numerous restrictions put down in the actual rules that follow along fluff based lines."

 

Yes, of course, if a rule strictly forbids a unit type for a specific Legion you can't play it, but then, that isn't a wall created by yourself, is it?

 

You don't have to accept the freedom the 30k setting gives you. Even if something in the narrative fluff might slightly contradict an idea, there's probably going to be a way around it if you really want to stick with that army, and again, I'm not talking about rules like the Salamanders specifically not being able to use Destroyers or Moritats.

 

Me personally? I love the freedom of it. Me and Hyenas are planning a large project together where we take a few threads here and there from the established history and completely weave our own tapestry from it. This is the most excited I've been and the most fun I've had with the hobby in over ten years, and the purpose of this thread is to help others reach the same place with their army.

 

We will help you decide on a Legion as best we can, but we're not here to tell you what you want to play. If you have, in fact, already read a bunch or all of the previous pages in this thread, then you will notice that most of it has to do with breaking you out of the mold of the 40k way of thinking about the Space Marines and coming up with different ways to breathe new life into the tired old cliches. If you only want to play Imperial Fists as wall builders and defenders, then I don't know what you expect us to help you with.

 

[GhostMalone]

http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y524/Taron_James_Beer/Mobile%20Uploads/Sword_art_online_zpsp6s84nry.gif

 

BCK & Hyaenidae Smash up!

[KBA]

Bottom line: if you feel pigeonholed, you're doing something wrong.

If you're playing in the Heresy post Istvaan, and you're playing Raven Guard, you will feel pigeonholed. Read Gav's poopy fluff, and you will even more so. Of course, you can deviate from Corax's remaining 3-4000 and do your own thing, but you will lose the feeling of inclusiveness. Which is something. Just sayin'.

This is the whole point of me saying that the walls you build to keep you from what you want to do are made by yourself. This is just like every single time some new author makes a little change to something and everyone who plays that faction throws up their hands and says "OMG I CAN'T PLAY MY ARMY NOW BECAUSE OF TWO SENTENCES IN THE NEW CODEX! ARRRRRRGGGHHH YOU RUINED IT FOREVER!!!!!!!!". I'm looking at the Black Templars most recently.

Who cares?

If you're spending hundreds of dollars and countless hours buying, building, and painting an army you love, why would you possibly let the new official fluff make you now look at that army in disgust? What if you'd never read Gav's poopy fluff? What then? Would you still be all googly-eyed over the Raven Guard?

I've also got a news flash for a lot of the folks that don't realize this: GW and FW are a business, more specifically a business that wants to sell little figures, and they've said so before that they are a miniature company first and a table top game company second. They're going to change things in order to make new models to make more money.

Was never looking for an argument, which is why I decided to post 'agree to disagree'. That seemed to be too much to ask. Internet. Go figure. Buuuuuuut since you decided to quote me, sure, lets dance.

Complaining about fluff changes, direction, and flavor: This is the Heresy section. Some of the idols you worship here LEFT 40K to 30K because of things like Centurions and the general fluff climate change. I myself view this as a story, so the official story matters to me. Alot. Sour entries in this story sours the story. Just like a crap movie in a franchise can change the perception of said franchise. Some are really good at plugging those ears, and going 'la la la la la' when they hear something they don't like. I don't like burying my head under the sand, personally. The fact is the story for the Raven Guard and their restructure limits the wiggle-room if you want to run with Corax and his boys. And I mean, those survivors specifically. What if I didn't want to use the work-arounds? No predation fleets, no others survivors? You have to acknowledge the restructure and work in the Hawks, Talons, Falcons, ect into your own story. So yes, the fluff has put limits on the Raven Guard. And that's not my fault.

Pretty disappointed you can't seem to see this side of the argument, even if you may not agree with it, BCK. You sound hell-bent on your message: 'This is the heresy, do whatever you want', so much so you might have lost sight of somethings. Take that however you want, I'm not sure I care

[Daemon2027]

 

 

 

Bottom line: if you feel pigeonholed, you're doing something wrong.

 

 

If you're playing in the Heresy post Istvaan, and you're playing Raven Guard, you will feel pigeonholed. Read Gav's poopy fluff, and you will even more so. Of course, you can deviate from Corax's remaining 3-4000 and do your own thing, but you will lose the feeling of inclusiveness. Which is something. Just sayin'.

 

This is the whole point of me saying that the walls you build to keep you from what you want to do are made by yourself. This is just like every single time some new author makes a little change to something and everyone who plays that faction throws up their hands and says "OMG I CAN'T PLAY MY ARMY NOW BECAUSE OF TWO SENTENCES IN THE NEW CODEX! ARRRRRRGGGHHH YOU RUINED IT FOREVER!!!!!!!!". I'm looking at the Black Templars most recently.

 

Who cares?

 

If you're spending hundreds of dollars and countless hours buying, building, and painting an army you love, why would you possibly let the new official fluff make you now look at that army in disgust? What if you'd never read Gav's poopy fluff? What then? Would you still be all googly-eyed over the Raven Guard?

 

I've also got a news flash for a lot of the folks that don't realize this: GW and FW are a business, more specifically a business that wants to sell little figures, and they've said so before that they are a miniature company first and a table top game company second. They're going to change things in order to make new models to make more money.

 

Was never looking for an argument, which is why I decided to post 'agree to disagree'. That seemed to be too much to ask. Internet. Go figure. Buuuuuuut since you decided to quote me, sure, lets dance.

 

Complaining about fluff changes, direction, and flavor: This is the Heresy section. Some of the idols you worship here LEFT 40K to 30K because of things like Centurions and the general fluff climate change. I myself view this as a story, so the official story matters to me. Alot. Sour entries in this story sours the story. Just like a crap movie in a franchise can change the perception of said franchise. Some are really good at plugging those ears, and going 'la la la la la' when they hear something they don't like. I don't like burying my head under the sand, personally. The fact is the story for the Raven Guard and their restructure limits the wiggle-room if you want to run with Corax and his boys. And I mean, those survivors specifically. What if I didn't want to use the work-arounds? No predation fleets, no others survivors? You have to acknowledge the restructure and work in the Hawks, Talons, Falcons, ect into your own story. So yes, the fluff has put limits on the Raven Guard. And that's not my fault.

 

Pretty disappointed you can't seem to see this side of the argument, even if you may not agree with it, BCK. You sound hell-bent on your message: 'This is the heresy, do whatever you want', so much so you might have lost sight of somethings. Take that however you want, I'm not sure I care :lol:

KBA I compleatly understand where you are coming from. I've struggled with the same thing with the Raven Guard. Gav's books basically turned the Raven Guard into the first chapter, albeit a large one.

I thought of another work around, and off the books style force aimed to take the fight to the traitors using any method. A vengance force, sanctioned by Corax, but with the remit to use any weapon or tactic they deem appropriate.

Also remember that while the initial 4000 were structured by Corax in a certain way, others would have returned post Deliverance Lost, allowing for more unique units to be used.

My current thinking with the Raven Guard is survivors from Isstvan V who haven't returned to Deliveramce because they think Corax is dead. They last saw his Thunderhawk crash and have since fought their own war, probally heading for Terra. My idea is that they are void warfare specialists, but also excel at at high atmosphere insertions, shock infantry assaults, and withdrawing under extreme fire.

[KBA]

Bottom line: if you feel pigeonholed, you're doing something wrong.

If you're playing in the Heresy post Istvaan, and you're playing Raven Guard, you will feel pigeonholed. Read Gav's poopy fluff, and you will even more so. Of course, you can deviate from Corax's remaining 3-4000 and do your own thing, but you will lose the feeling of inclusiveness. Which is something. Just sayin'.

This is the whole point of me saying that the walls you build to keep you from what you want to do are made by yourself. This is just like every single time some new author makes a little change to something and everyone who plays that faction throws up their hands and says "OMG I CAN'T PLAY MY ARMY NOW BECAUSE OF TWO SENTENCES IN THE NEW CODEX! ARRRRRRGGGHHH YOU RUINED IT FOREVER!!!!!!!!". I'm looking at the Black Templars most recently.

Who cares?

If you're spending hundreds of dollars and countless hours buying, building, and painting an army you love, why would you possibly let the new official fluff make you now look at that army in disgust? What if you'd never read Gav's poopy fluff? What then? Would you still be all googly-eyed over the Raven Guard?

I've also got a news flash for a lot of the folks that don't realize this: GW and FW are a business, more specifically a business that wants to sell little figures, and they've said so before that they are a miniature company first and a table top game company second. They're going to change things in order to make new models to make more money.

Was never looking for an argument, which is why I decided to post 'agree to disagree'. That seemed to be too much to ask. Internet. Go figure. Buuuuuuut since you decided to quote me, sure, lets dance.

Complaining about fluff changes, direction, and flavor: This is the Heresy section. Some of the idols you worship here LEFT 40K to 30K because of things like Centurions and the general fluff climate change. I myself view this as a story, so the official story matters to me. Alot. Sour entries in this story sours the story. Just like a crap movie in a franchise can change the perception of said franchise. Some are really good at plugging those ears, and going 'la la la la la' when they hear something they don't like. I don't like burying my head under the sand, personally. The fact is the story for the Raven Guard and their restructure limits the wiggle-room if you want to run with Corax and his boys. And I mean, those survivors specifically. What if I didn't want to use the work-arounds? No predation fleets, no others survivors? You have to acknowledge the restructure and work in the Hawks, Talons, Falcons, ect into your own story. So yes, the fluff has put limits on the Raven Guard. And that's not my fault.

Pretty disappointed you can't seem to see this side of the argument, even if you may not agree with it, BCK. You sound hell-bent on your message: 'This is the heresy, do whatever you want', so much so you might have lost sight of somethings. Take that however you want, I'm not sure I care

KBA I compleatly understand where you are coming from. I've struggled with the same thing with the Raven Guard. Gav's books basically turned the Raven Guard into the first chapter, albeit a large one.

I thought of another work around, and off the books style force aimed to take the fight to the traitors using any method. A vengance force, sanctioned by Corax, but with the remit to use any weapon or tactic they deem appropriate.

Also remember that while the initial 4000 were structured by Corax in a certain way, others would have returned post Deliverance Lost, allowing for more unique units to be used.

My current thinking with the Raven Guard is survivors from Isstvan V who haven't returned to Deliveramce because they think Corax is dead. They last saw his Thunderhawk crash and have since fought their own war, probally heading for Terra. My idea is that they are void warfare specialists, but also excel at at high atmosphere insertions, shock infantry assaults, and withdrawing under extreme fire.

That's a cool work-around. I like that idea, a vengeance force.

I use to have an entire thread with fluff about Survivors who had assumed Corax dead. It was working out well, but one thing left a sour taste in my mouth: I couldn't run with my Primarch, not without using trite writing tricks that I'd feel would weaken my own story. That's a huge selling point for the heresy: fighting alongside your gene-sire. If I wanted Corax, I'd have to swallow Gav's fluff. It was a big factor in leaving the Ravens.

[LongGone]

So things clearly got a little more heated than I had intended when I invoked Jeebus' holy name a few pages ago. I think part of that is due to a little misunderstanding. No one was ever saying that the ONLY way to go was freeballin' and willin' out. We were only making the point that you shouldn't let the 40k convention of 'this is what the chapter is good at' prevent you from taking your force in whatever direction you wish. If the thing that draws you to a particular legion is that one thing it's known for, then by all means focus on that idea. But people new to 30k need to understand that it should never be a limiting factor.

 

If you're choosing to represent a specific force on the table top and in your fluff, then of course you're going to be limited. That's not just with Raven Guard, that's with everybody. Khârn's 8th Assault Company, or any named company of any legion, is set down and immutable. In that instance, the limitations are self imposed because you chose that specific unit or formation.

 

As far as using ICs on the tabletop, you should never ever ever let that dictate your fluff and your force. There's a certain degree if separation between your head canon and the table top. Otherwise what happens when two forces with an identical IC meet on the table? A bunch of handwavium, that's what. Eventually two Corax's are going to meet on the table, and neither of them is going to want to be the warp crafted evil twin from the Twilight Zone. In universe, the primarchs can only be with one company, one squad at a time. That doesn't mean all the hobbyists in real life need to start a time share for their legion's leader. You shouldn't have let that kill your force and fluff. Go back to them, brother.

 

I'm on my phone so this is just a jumbled mess, and I apologize for it. All of it just to say that we meant no offense, and apologize if it came out sounding like that. We want to help people enjoy the Horus Heresy, where nothing is true, everything is permitted. Within reason. For the most part.

 

No lime green World Eaters allowed.

[KBA]

If you're choosing to represent a specific force on the table top and in your fluff, then of course you're going to be limited. That's not just with Raven Guard, that's with everybody. Khârn's 8th Assault Company, or any named company of any legion, is set down and immutable. In that instance, the limitations are self imposed because you chose that specific unit or formation.

 

As far as using ICs on the tabletop, you should never ever ever let that dictate your fluff and your force. There's a certain degree if separation between your head canon and the table top. Otherwise what happens when two forces with an identical IC meet on the table? A bunch of handwavium, that's what. Eventually two Corax's are going to meet on the table, and neither of them is going to want to be the warp crafted evil twin from the Twilight Zone. In universe, the primarchs can only be with one company, one squad at a time. That doesn't mean all the hobbyists in real life need to start a time share for their legion's leader. You shouldn't have let that kill your force and fluff. Go back to them, brother.

 

 

Apples to oranges as far as comparing the 4000 RG Istvaan survivors to Khârn's 8th.

 

With the World Eaters, and almost all the other legions, the template can said to be: here's the Legion, pick a Chapter, Battalion, Company, ect and go nuts! There's tens of thousands of Legionaries, and your primarch could theoretically fight alongside any with little to no explanation!

 

With the Raven Guard, it's: here's the Legion! We're shattered... (and poorly reorganized IMO - what I hated about Gav's fluff most), so if want to make a force from the main survivors, you'll have to draw certain units from certain designations (Hawks, Talons, ect). We've got work-arounds available, but if you want to use those, have fun making fluff sense when your primarch is fighting alongside them and doesn't absorb them back into the reorganized legion.

 

With the primarch thing for me, it was more of a question of why would Corax ever fight alongside my lost companies without annexing and absorbing them back into the fold than anything. Lastly, maybe this is just me, but the Black Library books lead the charge. Before Deliverance Lost, I was fully excited to follow the book's lead, and create a force based off what I was reading. Once I didn't like what I was reading, the excitement died down, and I went, 'Well damn, how am I going to work around this?', and that's honestly my main contention, going back to the feeling of inclusiveness when following what the Legions are doing in the books rather than writing your own adventures.

 

The happy ending is I've gone traitor and will burn this galaxy :)

[Slips]

You like painting yellow, dont you?

[KBA]

You like painting yellow, dont you?

http://cheaperthantherapy.me/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/BlankStare.gif

[Conn Eremon]

 

With the primarch thing for me, it was more of a question of why would Corax ever fight alongside my lost companies without annexing and absorbing them back into the fold than anything.

 

I would think the Raven Guard, the Legion that is now coming to find incredible strength through minimal application of force and the independent self-sufficiency of its components, would be the Legion most likely to have that happen. If Corax, upon his wanderings after the Massacre, lending his considerable strengths to the ongoing guerrilla war he and his Legion have been reduced to, came upon your Company, waging war on its own, I could see him allowing his Company to continue as it was, rather than insist or force it upon them that they shall return to the reforged Legion, once he had provided his skills and was now needed elsewhere.

[KBA]

With the primarch thing for me, it was more of a question of why would Corax ever fight alongside my lost companies without annexing and absorbing them back into the fold than anything.

I would think the Raven Guard, the Legion that is now coming to find incredible strength through minimal application of force and the independent self-sufficiency of its components, would be the Legion most likely to have that happen. If Corax, upon his wanderings after the Massacre, lending his considerable strengths to the ongoing guerrilla war he and his Legion have been reduced to, came upon your Company, waging war on its own, I could see him allowing his Company to continue as it was, rather than insist or force it upon them that they shall return to the reforged Legion, once he had provided his skills and was now needed elsewhere.

That is a fantastic point, but my Raven Guard were on the verge of inter-legionary war. I don't think he'd be okay with how things were going

But I still contend Corax returns his missing Ravens to the undersized flock.

[Slips]

You like painting yellow, dont you?

http://cheaperthantherapy.me/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/BlankStare.gif

Thanks for the late night chuckle; needed it after 8 hours of writing analysis papers for school :D

[Conn Eremon]

With the primarch thing for me, it was more of a question of why would Corax ever fight alongside my lost companies without annexing and absorbing them back into the fold than anything.

I would think the Raven Guard, the Legion that is now coming to find incredible strength through minimal application of force and the independent self-sufficiency of its components, would be the Legion most likely to have that happen. If Corax, upon his wanderings after the Massacre, lending his considerable strengths to the ongoing guerrilla war he and his Legion have been reduced to, came upon your Company, waging war on its own, I could see him allowing his Company to continue as it was, rather than insist or force it upon them that they shall return to the reforged Legion, once he had provided his skills and was now needed elsewhere.

That is a fantastic point, but my Raven Guard were on the verge of inter-legionary war. I don't think he'd be okay with how things were going

I suppose it depends on Corax, how involved he is with the Company or for how long. Even Primarchs can be blind to what is in front of them, as the Heresy's very existence makes plain. What if Corax, exhausted after years of the war to end all wars, simply does not see beneath the surface, at the turmoil beneath? Or what if he does, but misinterprets it? What if he sees the tension, the paranoia, the frustration, and assumes it matches his own, as a response to the damnable circumstances forced upon them by the Warmaster and his kindred? What if there is so much betrayal and bloodshed in the galaxy that he doesn't recognize it brewing deep within these sons? Sons who have been on their own, fighting the war alone? What if the task ahead, the battle to plan and fight, encompasses the whole of his attention and focus? What if he is so concentrated upon the enemies before him, enemies who were once his brothers, that he misses the signs among the sons beside him?

What if he just doesn't notice?

[KBA]

With the primarch thing for me, it was more of a question of why would Corax ever fight alongside my lost companies without annexing and absorbing them back into the fold than anything.

I would think the Raven Guard, the Legion that is now coming to find incredible strength through minimal application of force and the independent self-sufficiency of its components, would be the Legion most likely to have that happen. If Corax, upon his wanderings after the Massacre, lending his considerable strengths to the ongoing guerrilla war he and his Legion have been reduced to, came upon your Company, waging war on its own, I could see him allowing his Company to continue as it was, rather than insist or force it upon them that they shall return to the reforged Legion, once he had provided his skills and was now needed elsewhere.

That is a fantastic point, but my Raven Guard were on the verge of inter-legionary war. I don't think he'd be okay with how things were going

I suppose it depends on Corax, how involved he is with the Company or for how long. Even Primarchs can be blind to what is in front of them, as the Heresy's very existence makes plain. What if Corax, exhausted after years of the war to end all wars, simply does not see beneath the surface, at the turmoil beneath? Or what if he does, but misinterprets it? What if he sees the tension, the paranoia, the frustration, and assumes it matches his own, as a response to the damnable circumstances forced upon them by the Warmaster and his kindred? What if there is so much betrayal and bloodshed in the galaxy that he doesn't recognize it brewing deep within these sons? Sons who have been on their own, fighting the war alone? What if the task ahead, the battle to plan and fight, encompasses the whole of his attention and focus? What if he is so concentrated upon the enemies before him, enemies who were once his brothers, that he misses the signs among the sons beside him?

What if he just doesn't notice?

Brain... hurts... Writing... Not my thing...

That's just it. You have convinced me enough back-flipping with your fluff will see the day, but that requires writing talent -- something overlooked by the zealots in this thread with their HERESY=ANYTHING hammers. Not everyone has it. Certainly not I. A little empathy there could go a long way (HERE'S LOOKING AT YOU, BCK ). Hence the repeated desire to want to follow Black Library's lead, if only I liked the Raven Guard books.

I submit.

But the galaxy still burns

[Daemon2027]

With my Vengeance force idea there is some room for Corax to appear, while not official, he could still turn to them, and lead them, if the situation required it.

 

Also, remember that the Raven Guard have a strong individualistic streak, and often encouraged to take the initiative. I could easily see a line captain breaking the Gav structure.

 

I am possibly the worst for changing Legion, not sure why. But I am hoping to settle on the RG, my first love, now I have formed a better background idea. The Vengeance force can be made up of both Terrans and Kihavrans. They can be both a hidden blade dressed in Mark IV-VI and mobile heavy infantry in Mark II and III. The Delivereres can feature, armour can feature. Im happy.

 

(Also painting some Death Guard but thats more so I can explore different techniques such as oil washes)

[Castiel]

I think the take home message here should be that you can do anything with any legion, but that doesn't mean you have to.

 

If KBA doesn't like the direction the Ravens have gone and is enjoying his new force then there's no need for him to go back to the Ravens.

[Daemon2027]

Oh no im not arguing the KBA should go back to the Ravens, although his take on them is fantastic. Im just trying to show that even in the confines set up by BL, there is still wriggle room for intresting forces that are not typically RG.

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

Pretty disappointed you can't seem to see this side of the argument, even if you may not agree with it, BCK. You sound hell-bent on your message: 'This is the heresy, do whatever you want', so much so you might have lost sight of somethings. Take that however you want, I'm not sure I care

No, I can see the other side of the argument, but it has no place in a thread asking about help with choosing a Legion. If you already know you want to model an army based on a specific time and unit/chapter/whatever, this isn't the place for it. You want to start up a thread saying "Hey, I chose to do this!" I have no problem with it. This is also not the place to complain about your decision not to do an army for the same reasons. Seeing you previous responses you will probably take this as another personal attack, when it wasn't in the first place, but it's a message to anyone in the same situation - your idea soured and want help with a new one, bring it on. You want to gripe with nothing constructive on the back end? Don't bother.

That's just it. You have convinced me enough back-flipping with your fluff will see the day, but that requires writing talent -- something overlooked by the zealots in this thread with their HERESY=ANYTHING hammers. Not everyone has it. Certainly not I. A little empathy there could go a long way (HERE'S LOOKING AT YOU, BCK ).

Actually, I think Conn just gave you a perfect of example of why this thread exists in the first place, which is something you may have been overlooking because of your anger with the novels. Instead of bemoaning the loss of what you wanted to do with your RG after the Thorpe mess, you could have asked "I really want to do RG, but I'm not happy with recent developments in the story, is there anything you guys can think of to help me still do it?".

That's what me and Hyenas mean when we say you can do just about anything in this setting; it might require a little creative input from other people, which, again, is the entire purpose of this thread. If it takes me hammering that home to break people out of the mindset of 40k, then that's what I'm going to do. I want to see more people happy with their choice and showing off the figures from their new Legion.

Having said that, I am done explaining the reason for this thread and discussion needs to move back to the intended purpose of it.

[Dantay VI]

Hi, sorry if this is a bit of a rehash of other questions asked etc.

 

For a whiile now I have been itching to collect a 30K army. I have always collected Space Wolves and a few odds 'n' ends. I would love to do a VI legion army to go into 30K.

 

While for many, but not all, you have a legion with rules rites of war etc which is great, but so far the Wolves do not.

 

I have the HH books and references from the old index astartes series from the old White Dwarf magazines but I still have to struggle with legion/ company/ squad organisation charts, which for me is a bit of a struggle.

 

I love the HH background, the proper grey paint schemes, the models, conversion opportunities, etc because I can make them more my own...

 

What I do not have is characters from the novels and also without a FOC worries that certain models that I might collect may not be eligible when the legions turn comes around. A case in point is I have made TH/SS Cataphractii, but didn't know that they don't exist in 30K, I also have Tartaros with SS/CF's which was then outlawed by the new Wolves codex... (my thinking was to make models which could be used in both 30 & 40K which has meant things like no volkite weaponry).

 

I want to collect what I like, but I do not have deep pockets, so I cant spend a bunch on stuff which will serve no purpose.

 

I guess where I am coming from is I am new to 30K and I want to dive right in, but I am scared of drowning... How did you guys find your first forays into 30K and what advivce can you give a beginner?

[Daemon2027]

Well get the 2 red books for the GC list and it will have the rules for the released Legions, which will be handy to give you the general vibe of how each legions work.

 

I dont think Catraphactii can take Storm Shield and Thunderhammer, now that might change for the Wolves buy we wont know that for a few years.

 

There is still a lot of variety in the units, only one legion has had a particular unit withdrawn (Salamnders and Destroyers) so dont worry you will get options taken away, as i cant see the Wolves having any restrictions. Well maybe they will have their own version of librarians and chaplains but as Wolf player i guess you know that.

 

There are a few rite of war any legion can take, you could always start with one of those, they are all fairly Wolf-y and you get the choice of one USR to tie you over till you get rules.

 

Most of all don't worry about. The Space Wolves are probally the closest to their Legion origins in 40k out of all the factions. Just enjoy how much bigger everything is on 30k :D

[Dantay VI]

I could just strap Combi bolters to them and say the shields are for fun :D

 

Thanks for the advice. Thats the thing I looked at the books (not the red ones, but the main ones) and it was all kinda overwhelming...

 

I am thinking along the lines of late Crusade and coming into the Heresy... It means that I can use he plainer justaerin and cataphracts as Terrans, after all they may not be the pelt wearing loonies which the Fenrisians are. I am not a great convertor, so I am using them to sharpen up my painting a bit.

 

I need to get tacticals I think as I have no tactical or assault troops yet, just been dabbling with what I fancy. It will be nice to make a coherent force at some stage though.

 

I do not want to go down the route of berserkers charging forward to cave your skull in. I like the part in Prospero Burns where Kasper acts as Skjald for the first time and describes the Wolves as adaptable predators.

First moving silently, to slit the throats of their prey, then before they could adapt, switching to bolt guns to take down the next wave the came across, before confounding their opponents again by using their own weapons against them.

 

Their use of intel, and good planning before going into a fight. Though they like getting their hands dirty, they kow how to apply the right pressure at the right time using the right tools.

 

So stealth, all round good soldiering and then a battering ram to kick your teeth in :) Something flavourful yet fun.

[Slips]

AFAIK, Salamanders only have the Destroyer Restriction on the Primary Detachment, right? So allying in Sally Destroyers might be a thing :P

[Daemon2027]

AFAIK, Salamanders only have the Destroyer Restriction on the Primary Detachment, right? So allying in Sally Destroyers might be a thing :P

Maybe, was only mentioning at as example of a legion who have a unit restriction.

 

The Great Crusade list is all you need to start putting together an army, the other book will give you all the Legion rules but it might be useful to see what the other Legions can do. Know your enemy!

 

You can probally build what you want for now, I don't think the Space a Wolves will have a massive overhaul on the GC list (the Thousand Sons possibly will though!), so you can get a good start on building the army. And save for all the cool stuff they will get.

[Dantay VI]

Excellent, this could be fun.... Maybe I'll get a few assault squads and a tac squad to tide me over until the release comes hopefully next year.

 

I have 2 squads of 5 Cataphracts, 1 Squad of 5 Tartaros and 1 squad of 5 converted Justaerin, then 3 Cataphracts. 1 Cataphract Praetor, 1 Tartaros Chaplain. 1 Squad of Recon marines, 1 Fire Raptor, 1 Sicaran and 1Spartan still to work on.

 

Btw can cataphractii and Tartaros terminators take cyclone launchers??

 

I keep hearing of Moritats and consuls etc... Will have to investigate, are they like 40K Lone Wolves types?

[Fire Golem]

I don't think they can take cyclone launchers. In terms of Moritats and Consuls, there's a HQ called a Centurion, and you upgrade him with a Consul (well you don't have to). These are things like Chaplains, Librarians, Primus Medicaes etc. one of them is a Moritat who duel wields pistols and is just a massive badass.