The Legion for you... Community Assistance Thread

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

Then this thread is doing its job. :D  Out of curiosity, what kind of IF army idea are you going with?

[Thorv88]

Hey guys. First time post here. But long time lurker.

 

I'm looking to get involved in to 30k but obviously having trouble with my Legion so thought maybe you lads could help me.

 

I love a defensive style play. Tough as nails characters and infantry. Balance between infantry and tanks. Not overly fond of fast but do love to have a CC element.

 

Like a special character to base a theme around.

 

Love the idea of having Mechanicum allies.

 

Legions j love most are Fists, iron hands, sallies, Emp children and Luna wolves.

 

Thanks guys.

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

Sounds like Iron Hands to me.

[Viridia]

Then this thread is doing its job. Out of curiosity, what kind of IF army idea are you going with?

Well I'd been wanting to do IF ever since I read Mechanicum. That whole bit with Sigsimund and Camba-Diaz flying to Mars in a desperate effort to retrieve boltguns, munitions and Mk IV armours for the defence of Terra was my favourite aspect of the book, really helping to emphasise the early desperation of the loyalists. After a while I got distracted in the idea of doing a black ops/commando style force like Raven Guard or Alpha Legion, but I didn't think I could do a good job of giving them interesting colour schemes, and commando RG/AL is a little cliché for me personally.

I wanted to mix the FW stuff I've already got with some very attractive minis I've seen from a TPP, juggled some prices and points about and settled on an army of Imperial Fists performing a covert siege assault, based on the idea of sneaking into the enemy's lines to break them from the inside out rather than just smashing them back, while a small hard-hitting force storms in at the end to deliver the killing blow. I'll have to stick the army list up somewhere to get thoughts on it though.

[Commander Dawnstar]

I've been meaning to dive into the Heresy for some time now but one of the things holding me back has been a lack of certainty in what I really want to play. I'm certainly not well-versed in the fluff (the Tales of Heresy short story collection is all that I've actually read) and thus I've tended to change my mind every time some new cool thing comes to my attention rather than having a solid vision for what I'd like to do going forward. Certainly I'm still in the place where I probably care at least as much about the models themselves than the character behind them, although I would certainly like to change that.

 

My original thought had been to go with Iron Warriors as I think they've held the spot as my favourite legion in 40k since around the release of Codex CSM 3.5. Certainly they seemed to be my favoured force as I began to piece together a better understanding of the background and Petruarbo's methodology, but as I've taken time out to build my Ad Mech forces I've found myself equally interested in the Iron Hands and their playstyle. I'm quite certain that I'll end up settling for one of these two, in no small part because I'd like to add some Mechanicum allies at some point in the future as well.

 

I think a big problem for me personally is that I lack a good grasp of 30k listbuilding. I currently have two Tactical Squads, a plasma gun Tactical Support Squad, and the Breacher Marine Captain for my Praetor, but I haven't got any real idea how I want to go about building on that and therefore which legion would better suit my ambitions. I'm definitely fond of units like Medusan Immortals and the slow and stead approach of the Hands but I also like the heavy armour and big guns focus of the Warriors and the concept of the Hail of Fire rule. It's probably not unrealistic to say that I could be happy with either, I'm just not at all sure which I would prefer. Any help anyone could offer in terms of what actually 'works' in 1,500-2,000 points of fluffy Warriors/Hands would be very much appreciated.

 

For additional context (if it's at all helpful) my current armies are Ad Mech, Grey Knights, Tau, and Adepta Sororitas, and I have previously played Blood Angels and Tyranids in earlier editions of 40k.

[GrandMagnus]

Would the Ultramarines have deployed as legion or chapter during the Iron Cage? I know the IF were still organized as a legion, since Dorn wished for the IC to be a symbolic (and quite literal) purging of his legion.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Unknown, and if it was either in old fluff, current fluff is destroying old fluff bit by bit, or reclarifying.

[Reyner]

The Ultramarines deploy as a Chapter with the Team America theme song blaring from their vox casters on full blast. 

[GrandMagnus]

How do you feel about small amounts of MK VI and VII in heresy era legions. Would it be acceptable to consider them elements of MK V, basically test marks that have not been fully developed but added to the armoury of the legions due to the ever increasing need for resupply? Or would the legions end up looking too 40k-y even if the mayority is still MK II - IV?

[Joe]

Mk. VI (which was intended to be the original Mk. V) was more or less exclusive to the Alpha Legion and the Raven Guard to begin with, whereas Mk. VII began to appear in the closing days of the heresy before becoming the standard armour mark. iirc, Forge World also made a comment recently that by the time the heresy kicked off the majority of the legions should have had Mk. IV, with Mk. II and III left over here and there.

 

Honestly, I'd say mix Mk. III, IV and V with any legion-specific patterns, as well as plenty of additional equipment and protection like spare magazines, adamantium studs and pteruges. I've personally gone for a mix of II through V on my legionaries, although with a tad more style given their veteran status.

[Hyaenidae]

I personally avoid Mk VII like the plague, as it just has too much attachment to the 41st millenium, despite the fluff allowances. I sneak generator packs in, but mainly because of cost and a shrinking bitz box.

Mk VI, though, I have zero compunctions, but I keep their numbers intentionally low. Plus, beakies just look...... good. Classy. An echo, however distant, of the RT era that Forgeworld has pulled so heavily from as they have developed the Heresy.

[GrandMagnus]

Yes, good points. Personally, I like to follow the artwork, which show power armour to be quite varied and you often see suits similar to MK VII, I would however avoid the helmet, since its the most iconic part of the mark. I currently have a box of tacticals and a box of MK IV assault marines and I wanted to use them for Ultramarines legionaries, hence why Im asking.

[GrandMagnus]

Okay, Im going to bombard you again with another question, sorry brothers.

 

See, a thought came to mind yesterday and I needed some opinions. How much deviation from the legion heraldry is too much? What came to mind was the idea of a Raven Guard company dedicated to assault and siege, which has been separated a few decades, maybe as much as half a century, from their parent legion and has been fighting alongside another legion force so they have adopted another kind of warfare to the traditional shoot and run of the XIXth. Now, I hate black, A LOT. So what I thought is kind of a reverse colour scheme. Basically their armour would be a bleached bone colour, with black pauldrons (with regular legion heraldry, white raven and black base) and backpack, maybe even black helmet.

 

So, thats the idea, would that be too much deviation from a fluff standpoint or considering the size of the legions could such a thing be possible?

[Slips]

In short: do what makes you happy.

 

Long form: if you can justify it from a fluff point of view (which you very mich are) I dont see why not? The Forgeworld books have already showed us a few variant schemes for the legions to some extent (black imperial fists in extermination). If it means that the project will be more enjoyable for you to produce, go full steam ahead.

[Dantay VI]

I do not see why not.

I remember in the dim and distant past they did a Land Raider poster and 1 was an Imperial Fist with colours reversed because it worked to camouflage them on a night world.

 

Bone coloured raven would be cool, The Ghost Walkers!

[Skalpynock]

White RG, even more so pre-Corax, would make sense. Weren't they the dust-clad Pale Nomads?

[GrandMagnus]

Im already working on a test model, I will have a thread posted tomorrow (if time will allow me) :) thanks for the answers. Im also working out some fluff and Im loving the idea.

[GhostMalone]

Alrighty so I have a question to pose to everyone; which Knight Household?

 

I'm down to 3 choices

House Makabius

House aethgan

Or a home brew.

 

Now when I visit warhammer world (3 weeks to the countdown)I want to get my first knight:

 

Now Makabius works as a Traitor house with my SoH and DG plus I love the fluff

 

House aethgan works with shattered legions and SA

 

Home brew requires a lot of work.

 

So pick 1 2 or 3?

[Nakuth]

If you go with aethgan you can use them for both traitor & loyalist forces, and shattered legions. You could possibly do the same with Makabius, but they seemed to side almost 100% with the traitors, so you'd probably need to work more with the fluff to get them to fit.

 

I am going to suggest 2. As I said above, they can be used for either faction, meaning you wouldn't need duplicate knights to use across your multiple armies. Plus, aethgan look and sound like an awesome house. That said, they're no House Orhlacc.

[Dantay VI]

House Aethgen were almost entirely loyal to Horus as he was their chief benefactor, so I can't imagine they would be with the shattered legons or SA. At best they would be freeblade raiders.

 

I would say Orhlacc, the black/blue scheme is nice and sisnister.

 

Or Home brew. It isnt too much work really, I already have my own Homebrew house: Morhain.  

 

House symbol

 

Acheron: Serpents Breath. The Dark Castellan.

 

Castigator: Sword of Kings: High King of House Morhain.

 

Oh and House Morhain's Theme tune (they are a bunch of Mavericks)

[-Devil-]

good day, 

 

i am just venturing into the HH (30k) range and story ... so sort of lost at all the variations of information and what books to read and such ... in my head .. the looks are what made me want to learn more on Iron Warriors and Dark Mechanius ... but need some direction on which books i should read to find out more about them while i gather the mini's and such that i want to start on ... and to see if doing so opens me up to other chapters that have similiar looks and such ... 

 

when it comes to roleplaying games i always end up migrating towards the tech / gadget type classes (gunslinger in pathfinder, etc) ... which is what first got my interest in the above mentioned units ... i am more of a neutral evil / renegade type of personality over the fully structured sort of stuff that normally follows the 'good' chapters (in 40k my choice has always been orks, and space wolves, and of course the little squats / demurig or whatever you wish to call them) ... 

 

what books would you point me towards? or other chapters to look up to read up on more as well? 

[Leonite]

good day, 

 

i am just venturing into the HH (30k) range and story ... so sort of lost at all the variations of information and what books to read and such ... in my head .. the looks are what made me want to learn more on Iron Warriors and Dark Mechanius ... but need some direction on which books i should read to find out more about them while i gather the mini's and such that i want to start on ... and to see if doing so opens me up to other chapters that have similiar looks and such ... 

 

when it comes to roleplaying games i always end up migrating towards the tech / gadget type classes (gunslinger in pathfinder, etc) ... which is what first got my interest in the above mentioned units ... i am more of a neutral evil / renegade type of personality over the fully structured sort of stuff that normally follows the 'good' chapters (in 40k my choice has always been orks, and space wolves, and of course the little squats / demurig or whatever you wish to call them) ... 

 

what books would you point me towards? or other chapters to look up to read up on more as well? 

Firstly, welcome to the Heresy. 

 

Secondly, it's legions, not chapters. Simple thing, but chapters are, at this time, solely the Ultramarine's thing.

 

Thirdly, don't feel limited to just the Iron Warriors. In the heresy almost every legion had it's loyalists and traitors. For example, if you wanted to be the Iron Hands, that's fine. (And given their special rule give +1 Toughness when being shot at and they can take Jetbikes which give 2+ Armor...)

 

As for the books, the recommendation is always to get either the two red books (The basic Space Marine Legion list and the Istavaan Legions) if you don't mind lacking the fluff and pictures and other side stuff, as well as the other two tomes (4 and 5), or to get all 5. Book 4 is purely optional, it's just a list of relics your commander can take and the rest is Imperial Knights and Heresy Era Imperial Army, as well as the fluff.

 

The red books are much cheaper than getting the first three though, and come with one of the Mechanicus lists too.

 

As for Minis, there's a lot of ways you can purchase them. Think about what direction you might like to go, and remember that Legion armies tend to be better in high point games.

[Fire Golem]

Chapters aren't solely an Ultramarines thing, to be pedantic. At least the Word Bearers had chapters too, not sure about any others.

[-Devil-]

 

good day, 

 

i am just venturing into the HH (30k) range and story ... so sort of lost at all the variations of information and what books to read and such ... in my head .. the looks are what made me want to learn more on Iron Warriors and Dark Mechanius ... but need some direction on which books i should read to find out more about them while i gather the mini's and such that i want to start on ... and to see if doing so opens me up to other chapters that have similiar looks and such ... 

 

when it comes to roleplaying games i always end up migrating towards the tech / gadget type classes (gunslinger in pathfinder, etc) ... which is what first got my interest in the above mentioned units ... i am more of a neutral evil / renegade type of personality over the fully structured sort of stuff that normally follows the 'good' chapters (in 40k my choice has always been orks, and space wolves, and of course the little squats / demurig or whatever you wish to call them) ... 

 

what books would you point me towards? or other chapters to look up to read up on more as well? 

Firstly, welcome to the Heresy. 

 

Secondly, it's legions, not chapters. Simple thing, but chapters are, at this time, solely the Ultramarine's thing.

 

Thirdly, don't feel limited to just the Iron Warriors. In the heresy almost every legion had it's loyalists and traitors. For example, if you wanted to be the Iron Hands, that's fine. (And given their special rule give +1 Toughness when being shot at and they can take Jetbikes which give 2+ Armor...)

 

As for the books, the recommendation is always to get either the two red books (The basic Space Marine Legion list and the Istavaan Legions) if you don't mind lacking the fluff and pictures and other side stuff, as well as the other two tomes (4 and 5), or to get all 5. Book 4 is purely optional, it's just a list of relics your commander can take and the rest is Imperial Knights and Heresy Era Imperial Army, as well as the fluff.

 

The red books are much cheaper than getting the first three though, and come with one of the Mechanicus lists too.

 

As for Minis, there's a lot of ways you can purchase them. Think about what direction you might like to go, and remember that Legion armies tend to be better in high point games.

 

 

hmm thanks :) yes i have a lot more reading up to do then ... but will put the two red books on the top of the list to purchase while looking around at the story ones to find which ones sound interesting .. also did not realize that each legion was good / bad ... guess it is just stuck in my head that they are either all good or all bad ... so that may open up a little more options to me ... 

[ChaosRising]

Chapters aren't solely an Ultramarines thing, to be pedantic. At least the Word Bearers had chapters too, not sure about any others.

As did the Dark Angels. We know for a fact that Merir Astelan was Commander of the 22nd Chapter of the Dark Angels, while Mentheus was Commander of the 23rd Chapter.

 

 

To the best of my rather limited knowledge, most (maybe all?) of the legions had chapters.

 

Prior to the breakup of the legions, a chapter was to a legion [30k] what a company is to a chapter [40k]. In other words, even though a legion-era chapter was undoubtedly bigger in size than a Codex chapter, it served the same basic role - i.e. it was the basic unit of measure when referring to military strength in most affairs. Just as an M41 chapter master is unlikely to plan an invasion of a Tau world by talking in terms of combat squads rather than in terms of companies, so too would a Primarch and his senior staff be unlikely to plan a planetary conquest by dealing with companies rather than chapters.