7th ed list building

[BloodTzar]

Hello guys,

First of all, the new turbulent era of 40k is here,while I am not adjusting fast enough, moreover I feel I am still locked in 5th ed. Therefore I have decided to get a new more "balanced" or at least some how BA unique list (as that is what I am aiming for with every list I build). I would like to keep it normal list with allies no unbound crap.

Second , I would like to ask you to help me with your advice, constructive criticism and opinions while I get into the final list. The range I am looking for is 1850 and the list should have few thing;

Sciracan Tank

Fire Raptor (still didnt get one, so I would like to hear some review on this from someone who uses them)

Reclusiarch ( due to relic rules)

Servin Loth

SR

Open for the rest and mandatory stuff

Lastly, I would like to keep this thread more of a discussion rather than simple list spamming

Thank you

~BT

PS. Fire Raptors in 40k can only get those quad HB's no AC's for them? (IA2SE2)

[Jolemai]

Regarding the Fire Raptor, if you read the IAv2SE FAQ it can take twin-linked Autocannons instead.

 

As for taking Loth, I have no idea :)

 

So far I have used a 6th edition list and 6th edition thinking in my only 7th edition game to date and I got caught out. Simply put, you need to get the balance right between covering all the bases and not diluting your force down too much. I too am finding it tricky right now.

[BloodTzar]

Edited: Thank you for FAQ's, I should read more before posting

On the other hand, Loth is super psyker , something that Meph used to be... I am thiking putting him in drop pod with tac sq (red scorps = free FNP sarge or pehaps FW one for 60p that has 2+/4++)

[Morticon]

I can account for all of those FW items.

 

 

Fire Raptor is GREAT.  I prefer the heavy bolters if you have a Raven around too, and/or you have enough anti-air/tank.  If not, go autcannons - but 12 HB shots that hit most ground targets on 2s is just disgustingly good.  

 

The Sicaran is good.  Its also been nerfed a little in the FAQ getting side and rear 12. Would be MUCH better if it was 13/13/13 like in the book.  But, its still really good and fits nicely with the BA theme.  Its cheaper than a Baal, but can block more and essentially does the same thing.

 

Loth is broken.  Broken, broken, good.  He's just so good.  The ability to choose 3 of the powers from his sets is just so powerful.   Be cautious, you'll need a house ruling on how to work his armour, since he cant activate it start of the turn anymore (since you dont generate warp charges then).

[BloodTzar]

Thank you for the info about Loth, I have look at that and seems like you need to have a small discussion with opponent. Moreover I think using him with tac sq in drop pod having sarge turn in SP (SM aphotecary) or you would suggest that special sarg HAAS (still not sure how valid these rules are) 

 

On the other hand, I would say I will naked with only 1 anti mech flyer, as my SR's are MM/AC. Moreover I have question regarding the Sciracan, I would say I will use it with las canons as as I see it as main AT combined with SR's/FR

 

Lastly, any experience with "our" FW char Malakim Phoros? I do have the model being painted for a while now, however never tried it yet 

[Cronhour]

Fire raptor, storm raven, loth, and lascannon Sicarian might be a lot of points with the reclusiarch, loths troop tax and the need for scoring units if you want an 1850 list. I run my Sicarian cheap, bare plus armoured ceramite, survivable and 6 TL rending shots at 155 is enough with 3 heavy bolter shots as well.

[Morticon]

Ravens with AC/MM are great - on account of the 4x Bloodstrike missiles!! Ap1 rules.  Also, you have no limit to the number of missiles you can fire. If you have that build of of raven, then defs go HB on the Raptor!

 

I rate go the free apothecary (with the Scorp rules).  Works nicely in tandem with the BA vibe and theme.

 

Phoros i dont have too much experience with, sadly!  

[BloodTzar]

Welll I am still not decided on the main HQ, however if i would not go for both sicaran and rapror; and use 2 Ravens and Sicaran. I might try to squeeze Mephy too, not sure on him in 7th tho as he lost most of his mobility...

 

Moreover, HB only Siracan seems to me like a wasted potential even with side 12 it may be very durable platform ...

[Morticon]

The las on the Sicaran are pricey - you wind up paying 175 points for it.  Those uber-autocannons are where its at, so you're essentially paying for that.  Its one less shot than a baal, but more resiliency, more reliability, stronger output and just as fast (just minus scout).  

 

Id play around with the las, but it may not be needed.

Remember you'll need a reclusiarch for the Raptor and the Sicaran in your list - that means that you would probs gravitate towards the DC on account of them working nicely with the Chappy.

[BloodTzar]

First of all thank you for suggestions ! 

 

Moreover, do you have any list idea in mind? I mean honestly, I cannot really think of balanced list in 7th ed environment, personally I think I am still trapped in death-stars era :)

 

Lastly, is super killy (Rec included) DC way to go ? I mean chopping out of combat might not be the best idea in the era of the shoot stars :/

 

~BT

[Chaplain_Sam]

Ravens with AC/MM are great - on account of the 4x Bloodstrike missiles!! Ap1 rules.  Also, you have no limit to the number of missiles you can fire.

 

Sorry, do you mind referencing a rule for being able to shoot all four Bloodstrike missiles? I've only been shooting two this whole time!

[Shaezus]

Don't have my rulebook to hand but I think there ain't a rule for it, just that the old 6th ed rule is now absent in 7th ed, so there is nothing saying you can only fire two per turn.

[Shaezus]

First of all thank you for suggestions !

 

Moreover, do you have any list idea in mind? I mean honestly, I cannot really think of balanced list in 7th ed environment, personally I think I am still trapped in death-stars era :)

 

Lastly, is super killy (Rec included) DC way to go ? I mean chopping out of combat might not be the best idea in the era of the shoot stars :/

 

~BT

Totally agree with the last paragraph. If you want DC to function as a fight-all key assault unit, the main thing is strength in numbers and at least one thunder hammer and an axe or two or fist depending on your local meta.

 

The catch is where to put your reclusiarch, as it will be throwing away VP to put him in a small DC with no special weapons, yet put him in a tooled-up DC and they will munch through most things in a single round. I found this to be the case when I ran rec and heavy DC; awesome to behold especially if you enjoy the backs-to-the-wall melee that accompanies the inevitable counter-charge.

 

This is where strength in numbers comes in, and also corbulo would do more than anything else to keep the DC and warlord alive, tanking overwatch and small-medium arms fire in the oppo's turn besides tanking in cc. If you're seriously unlucky he might only tank 20 wounds or so but the average is way more; when I've had good dice with him he's taken 60-70 wounds and still standing with his squad at the end.

 

In a nutshell, if you're taking the reclusiarch with a strong death company, take corbulo too. Just my tuppence.

[knife&fork]

 

Ravens with AC/MM are great - on account of the 4x Bloodstrike missiles!! Ap1 rules.  Also, you have no limit to the number of missiles you can fire.

 

Sorry, do you mind referencing a rule for being able to shoot all four Bloodstrike missiles? I've only been shooting two this whole time!

 

 

Flyers can now fire 4 weapons at full BS, check the BRB for flyers. 

 

So if you wish that's all four missiles, melta at full BS with PotMS and twinlinked snapshots with the assault cannon.

[Chaplain_Sam]

Don't have my rulebook to hand but I think there ain't a rule for it, just that the old 6th ed rule is now absent in 7th ed, so there is nothing saying you can only fire two per turn.

 

 

 

Flyers can now fire 4 weapons at full BS, check the BRB for flyers. 

 

So if you wish that's all four missiles, melta at full BS with PotMS and twinlinked snapshots with the assault cannon.

 

 

Thanks for clearing that up.

[BloodTzar]

Well thank you all for advises, however I would like to ask if anyone has any idea how to integrate this into some balanced list ;) ?

[Shaezus]

How about two sicarans, plus a 10-man DC with TH and PF or 2 PA in a land raider of your choice. Points to spare go on loth's troop tax and troops for BA. Reclusiarch and loth with DC and try for invisibility.

[BloodTzar]

Well I have learned hard way way too elitist lists are the bane of 6th-7th ed ... as I have learned this the hard way, while running my previous list

I was thinking about;

HQ

Rec ( If PF taken than no priest)

ELITES

SP priest (bare bones)

TROOPS

5 ASM (Melta) ~ DP

2x5 ASM (Melta) ~ Las/Plas

7xDC (2 Axe+CCW, rest bolters) ~DP

FAST

2xAC/HB Baal

HEAVY

Fire Raptor (Auto Cans)

Sicaran (no sponsons)

Allies:

HQ

Loth (picking up invis for heavy shooty armies, or all the nasty biomancy stuff for squishy armies)

TROOP

10 Tacs (flamer, las can, sarge turned into SP (free)) ~DP

I know I did not get space for SR, that is a bummer, however I did try to fit everything I might need. Moreover, this list offers 2 DP's 1st turn with some bolter suppress fire while Baals with Relic tank might be able to shell the crap of any other AV on table or at least open up the transports. Personally I am lacking my usual 5xTH/SS corbs in SR micro DeathStar or some hard hitters :/

PS:

@Mort; I have written to FW today about the Armour of Skelet rules in 7th , hopefully they will have some clear explanation of that

[BloodTzar]

Any toughts on what to add/change? Or experience with some unit funcion ?

PS Reply in regard of Servin Loth ( iave posted the whole mail )

Hi,

Thank you for your email. with 7th Edition Sevrin Loth now generates his warp charges in the Psychic phase, so it now empowers his suit in the Psychic phase, rather than at the start of the turn as previous done.

The activation of his armour doesn't count towards his Psychic Mastery level 3 powers. You can cast as many powers per phase as long as you have enough Warp charges to cast them.

We are currently looking at what errata is required for our books due to the release of new codex's and the latest edition of the 40k rules. Once this is completed, we will release any required updates on PDF, via the downloads on our website. As this is a massive under taking it will take quite some time to complete.

If there is anything further we can do to assist you, or if you have any queries about the information we have requested or provided, please telephone us.

Regards,

Forge World

There has been other discussion on forum in regards of PML and how many abilities are cast per turn, now I think it is quite clear that it is unlimited until you have WC's.

[Jolemai]

When do you get a chance to playtest it next?

[BloodTzar]

I will try to get a game over the w.end, altough I might go to a music festival as well so time might be a problem :)

 

On the other hand I am not very good in bat reps, so I will try to get my overall impressions.

[BloodTzar]

Hello brothers,

 

What a w.end; I have been way too optimistic about my w.end plans, last time I have posted here. Due to stomach problems there was no festival for me however I managed to get few games going.

 

However at least I managed to play test my list mentioned above; boy it played so different to what I am used to, it was much better I guess. I have been able to get games that have been mostly friendly (so not that many OP tourny lists :) ), therefore mine observations could be biased. (I have played against Eldar(Mechdar with WK), IG (nice mech), DW)

 

I would not bother you with the bat reps as I am sure I forgot most of the important staff so I only grade units;

 

Rec - well nothing special I am still thinking of getting him a PF (exchange an axe in DC for PF) he is nice duelist nothing special. Moreover not the best HQ as he spends most of the time front line with DC easy 1st blood) - C

 

DC - with Rec they are super killy, even with bolters, in one game they got focused hard so however they were still able to get few pointy-ears in return. I have learned the hard way; always DP-ed them into hard cover-ruins - A-

 

Priest - nothing to mention I guess its all about your 5+ rolls, being able to extend his range from RzB is good. I am not sure how important he is in Razor "spam" but for sure he saved at least amount of points that he is worth - B

 

RzB Sq - never did these much, and now with scoring transports they became very flexible, moreover the transport gives them nice kick (I have overlooked Las/Plas for so long! :( ). On the other hand I have never been able to use that melta, while being 5 men strong it doesn’t take that much of attention to get rid of them - B

 

Baal's - now these guys I always loved them and played them when I could / felt like to, however FW has decided to give them hard time while releasing that new Sicaran tank. Very solid anti inf with some nice anti-tank potential, however complete out-shined by the new toy - B+

 

Sicaran - WAU and wau ... this thing is very strong even bare bones it is also quite durable, and due to its size able to screen quite a lot. Very good pick, at some point I have felt I am cheating with these those S7 rending shots with no jink are nothing to laugh about. I am seriously thinking about adding second one while sacrificing Baal’s - A

 

Loth (+Red Scorp Tacticals)- well this is new meph, with BIO he is a chopping machine, 2+ /2++ with 5+ FNP (from sq) while having iron arm/warp speed he is unstoppable (got 2 Eldar WK's). On the other hand, with TELE he is a buff machine in both cases he is very durable and annoying. I still think he is cheating to some extent - A+ (tacticals are just there as meat shield with access to FNP)

 

Fire Raptor - this thing is a same story as Sicaran, very cheap for what it does, never thought that independent targeting can be so brutal but it can; to pop 2 transports a turn is something not many things can do. I thought I will miss my MM/AC SR (well I did a bit) however this thing is very similar. - A

 

Pod RAS - very good choice, I have looked at them as a filler at the beginning not realizing that DP is scoring, coming T3+ they are very nice tactical bonus - B

 

Overall, I do like this list quite a lot, it’s something I am not that used to, and I even did one game with my old list with some updates, surpassingly it did quite well as well (although I have lost that game ). I am still thinking about some "killy" part of the list like Meph in SR, or 5 TH/SS with Corbs don’t know maybe I am just too used to them. On the other hand, I think I will replace Baal’s for another Sicaran (that I need to buy) and 3 MM Attack Bikes (just to utilize that priest somehow).

 

~BT

[Morticon]

Great report back!!! Especially since im considering both the sicaran and the raptor.

 

Consider getting Schism of Mars on the Raptor- will make it insane. 

[BloodTzar]

Guys one question, reading the relic rules, do you think it is legal to take fire raptor as BA part of the list and Sicaran as the Red Scorp's part of the list, while having Meph/Loth as HQ's?

@Mort, well playing mostly friendly games, I did not want to go that far I have felt bad for the Loth himself, 1 WC for 2++ with no chance of failure, that is quite cheesy :/ (he can be turned into super tank, with bio - still thinking of Mephy Loth combo list )

On the other hand, I will go for both Fire Raptor and Sicaran, but that stupid HQ tax, I cannot see any benefit from getting a Rec.

PS: I can see Mephy work with BIO while riding SR. Please how do you run Mephy nowadays ?

[Morticon]

Been trying wihout Meph at the moment.  

 

Meph+Loth is sick.

 

Those rules are out of date btw! Must use IA:2v2.  A little different. But yes, you can take one in the Primary, one in the secondary.

 

If you not rocking 4 troops though, easier to just pay the Reccy tax.  Try work in DC! Means with him theyre amazing. Unless of course you wanna go Meph/Loth