ZONKEY Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Hello, I have become a proud owner of the best looking 40k flyer, and was just looking for the best ways to use and equip it, my main rival armies contain other flyers and lots of quick units such as the new puppy dog flyer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marvmoogy Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 I'll get in there first..... best way to equip it? Surrounded in your battlefoam. And keep it there. My 2p...... Edit - to be a bit more constructive: The DA flyers aren't bad per se, it's just we have much better options for the points. You could run one, but we have access to other units that do the job better which makes the ne-fail-im redundant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZONKEY Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 I can understand that the nephilium was a flyer built by committee as is I think it tries to fill too many different rolls and a contemptor dread (skyfire one) with twin lascanons and cyclone missile launcher is better value for points but I have got one and I wanna try and make it work, though I am not sure how they can fix it in our next codex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyfax Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Best use, most definitely decoration.. and perhaps distraction to hide devious strategic moves, it is a good looking model after all! I have used the Dark Talon before, vs. Orks, and it was ok.. nothing really noteworthy though. As mentioned before there are better ways to spend your points but I can see a nephilim being used to deal with transports, also vs. infrantry I guess it'll work as long as it is not wearing power armor. I guess I would use it for that, killing infantry that other units cant get to easily or intercept transports. I think I'd go for the Avenger Mega Bolter as just 1 TL Las shot doesn't seem to be worth it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shubniggurath Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Well, he's pretty decent against light armies (i.e. Dark Eldars). There's just so much thing you could take instead of taking a Nephilim in your army... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeChisler Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Storm talon has a twin linked assault cannon with s6 & rending the mega bolter doesn't even get the rending Currently small arms will down av11 You can justify 120 points on an av11 flyer not 190 with ravens at 200 it seems poor value From the blurb it's supposed to be an ace flyer peeps on here are down on it coz of the points cost and it's crap weapons loadout even the missiles are junk at s6. 7th makes it worse due to the pen chart Anyways it looks good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polythemus Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Ignore the naysayers, and sceptics. The Nephilim, is a solid addition to your Dark Angels Army. You have two options for outfitting it Lascannon or avenger bolter. Here are how I see its uses. Lascanon is good for when combating other flyers, the ability to cause a jink, limits their output and could potentially cause a crash and burn. (explode result on 6, immobilize on a 5, or 4, with a one 1/3 chance of destruction on 1 or 2 after. This will be best against necrons, orks, eldar, deldar, helldrakes. The avenger bolter is best when you expect to face off against flying montrous creatures (demon prince, tyranids, demons), since they can't be exploded, causing as many wounds as possible is essential. Its fun to use, that is for sure. If the opponent has no flyers its more likely to be used to take out infantry or tanks. but as an anti flyer role it will do alright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultra Magnus Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I think it works best in an anti vehicle capacity; flyers, transports, walkers, etc. The lascannon is my preferred set up, making best use of it's special rules to increase your odds of immobilizing a transport or downing a flyer. The Avenger Megabolter load out doesn't really add anything unique to your army. The Dark Talon is a better anti-infantry vehicle, being cheaper and benefiting from the standard of devastation if used in your list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Here you go. Search fu is a wonderful thing: Tactica Nephilim http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288917-tactica-nephilim/page-2?hl=%2Btactica+%2Bnephilim&do=findComment&comment=3721551 As an aside: If someone wants help using something, that's what we should do. Saying use "Y instead of X" is no help at all and frankly most of the time comes from people that hear other people and not from personal experience, which is a bad way to give advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 My opinion is in the thread Luci linked.. However the knee-jerk reaction of "It's Useless, keep it in your foam" burns my buttons. Using it as a Dark Talon has won me games before because of that very misconception. When your opponents discount what it can do they tend to let you do whatever you want with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marvmoogy Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 My opinion is in the thread Luci linked.. However the knee-jerk reaction of "It's Useless, keep it in your foam" burns my buttons. Using it as a Dark Talon has won me games before because of that very misconception. When your opponents discount what it can do they tend to let you do whatever you want with it. It wasn't a comment designed to infuriate you, Brother Dean....it was a comment drawn from my experience. And, if you read my post...I said they " aren't bad per se, it's just we have much better options for the points". Thats an opinion I stand by. I guess this is the wonderful thing about our hobby - we can all decided to do the same thing in different ways and there is no right or wrong answer. (Unless other peoples opinions offend you / "burn you buttons") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZONKEY Posted August 13, 2014 Author Share Posted August 13, 2014 Its still the best looking flyer, I hope we get a flying troop transport in the next edition How do people feel about the land speeder vengeance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I have come to burn your buttons, without durp chickens. Aren't storms better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I did read your opinion.. (and burns my buttons is a very mild phrase for annoyance..) I agree with your reasoning. But I also use our (perceived) weak flyer and often my opponents overlook it in favor of other things.. Like Terminators. We should encourage all other players to believe it is a weak flyer and in here, in our inner circles, continue to point out its strengths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marvmoogy Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 It's all relative, Brother. The fact is, our Codex (well, any Space Marine codex) is not a cheap codex to play. Especially if you're facing xenos scum! Most battles will be sub-2000 points. At these levels, you really need to optimise your lists as, even in friendly games, you will soon be out gunned, out numbered or out manoeuvred in some way without a potential response. Whilst I agree that we should see the golden lining to any cloud and be positive about our gear, we also need to be realistic into its failings. I am sure there will be times I may want to take a Nephilim, but 9 times or of 10 I will use a different unit that is either cheaper or has additional battlefield roles (think Mortis Contemptor or devs behind an ADL). Now, to move away from this difference of opinion.... OP - you say it is the best looking flyer...ad I couldn't agree more (apart from the Fire Raptor - that's my baby!). If it is the case of looks, why not convert it / use it as allies? If you love the look, fit it with TL-AC & TL-LC to make it into a Storm Talon.....there are plenty of options! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Tactica wise you're going to hear a lot of negativity. For me the disappointment is in the fluff pointing to the fact the Nephilim is using the ancient Lion's engine thingy.... and it doesn't translate into anything at all on the tabletop that would indicate that. Pointswise is where I have the biggest issue, it is horrifically overpriced in a codex that features a lot of high priced units. So you have to decide how to maximize this thing. And believe it or not, I do try to fit it in as much as possible. My favorite use is the Mega bolter. However, in a Dakka banner list I truly believe the Dark Talon is the way to go. I simply don't understand how to get any use out of the bomb, but the fact you can hover and take full advantage of the Dakka Banner is actually very useful. Back to the Nephilim I actually had it come in AFTER my opponent's Dakka Flyrant and I did thoroughly enjoy the missiles (even though ours are the worst in the Imperium for some reason?) and the strength 5 worked nice... Hvy Bolter, etc, and I caused enough wounds to put the bugger on the ground. I can hunt entry level flyers with it, and wreck ground units that aren't properly protected but that's it. FYI I did start my experimenting with the double las and as many have mentioned it just splits the role too much... I mean what is it supposed to do? Shoot medium toughness, or go after hard vehicles? That's why after a handfull of games I dedicated it to the Mega Bolter. Again, I've wanted to visit the cheaper, Dark Talon (which also hovers). Ignoring the bomb, having a flying little twin linked pillbox in 7th might be okay... add in the dakka banner and you're shooting 24(?) twin linked bolt shots @ 2 feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZONKEY Posted August 13, 2014 Author Share Posted August 13, 2014 But doesn't move really quickly making the banner redundant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 But doesn't move really quickly making the banner redundant? No, you hover. You still get your Jink plus you're twinlinked. I'm only suggesting this for the Talon though, not the Nephilim (to be clear.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 But the talon doesnt really hover fly... It stays still in place and can only rotate... ST can hover fly like a LS... I tried both flyers and sadly because i like the look of both i realized that at that points there is lot better in our already overpriced codex... Zonkey... About the LSV i only say this... It costs like 2 LS but shoots and dies just like 1... It's the most overpriced thing in an overpriced codex... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 The Nephilump appears positively cheap compared to the LSV for what they do; a Javelin LS with AV11/11/10 2hps is only 75pts, with TLLC 85, comparing apples with oranges the Vindie is way better and cheaper too. I still run my LSV for kicks though I have no ability to comment on the Nephi on the tabletop due to not owning one but I really wish they'd look better/cheaper on paper so I could buy something that has an awesome model but won't just gather dust... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 9 Reasons to use a Nephilim: - You bought it - You bothered to assemble it - You painted it - Looks cool - 12 shots alpha strike! - We don't have that many flyers in our Codex to choose from - It's not terribad at his job - Did I mention how cool it looks? - If we only cared about playing with good/overpowered units we wouldn't/shouldn't be playing DA, would/should we? So go ahed, have fun with it. Use it, learn how to use it, tell us how you have been using it successfully. That's what the hobby is all about: Playing with the stuff we like, not what with the internet says we should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 And did we mention that it looks sexy ..........and actually aerodynamicly plausible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZONKEY Posted August 15, 2014 Author Share Posted August 15, 2014 I am looking forward to assembling it, I am looking to expand my ravenwing force more as they look like a good fun army Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMek83 Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Nephilim needs support. Unloike Stormraven that can rely av12 and boat loads of aresenal (and frankly it fills different slot all together) Most people buy it for the Dedicated Interceptor deal with flyers. Like said earlier in this forum: TL-Las is best if you encounter enemy medium (av11) or heavy (av12) flyers. Espcially since its ap2. However Megabolter is not bad either. Especially if you got aegis defence line with quadgun and flakk missile devastators. The 5 s6 shots + 2 s6 missiles combined 4 shots from quadgun and 4 flakk missiles will deal havock anything from Flying MC's to AV12 flyers. Its about sheer volume of fire and supporting your unit. Unlike most things in Codex: Vanilla... (Or now codex: Vanilla with sprinklers) everything in DA codex is designed to serve specific purpose. This means: Know what your enemy units do, know what your own units do and then: Support your units appropriately. Nephilim works if you get suitable support it. Like second Nephilim, Dark Talon or ground AA-support in forum of Icarus Las-cannon / Quad cannon and / or Flakk missile devs. Just my 2 cents. (P.S. I still think they should drop Neph's price for 15p and or make avenger mega bolter s7 or givie it rending and Blacksword missiles would need to be atleast s7) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 The problem about NJF needing support is that this piece already costs a lot... Like any thing in DA that isn't shared with C:SM (tacticals, scouts, assualters, devastators, tanks) costs too much (seriously 6 points a bike for a teleport homer?)... If we don't use RW and DW we basically have a stubborn vanilla army (though our ability has a drawback while vanilla chapter tactics don't) with less options while if we start to include RW and DW we will run very fast out of points... If we are able to make work all the synergies our army has we have a chance to face our opponents but if we start to lose the units/ICs that give us synergies we are gonna lose... This is why I see DA disappeared from the tournament scene here in Italy where I leave, less models and each model you lose can destroy your strategy is not a good thing in a competitive match... So why you should play a NJF or DA in general??? For the BG and the coolness of the models... That's it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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