TrafficCustodes Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 If I recall right, I think that once Nostramo had reached a point of 'stability' - when everyone was too scared of him to commit even the smallest crime - Kurze stopped killing. Or at least slowed down. I guess in Kurze's view, those terrified/law abiding citizens were 'the innocents'. He had a quite bleak view of humanity, but (at least towards the beginning of his life) he would wait for you to step out of line before skinning you alive, rather than just skinning you alive with no provocation and saying "Well, better safe than sorry - that one looked like he might be a problem later." Though from the actions and attitudes of his Legion, we could theorise that Kurze didn't really see the passive citizens of Nostramo as innocents worth protecting, but selfish, weak cowards who just hadn't done anything bad yet, and who didn't really deserve protection. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295100-random-30k-thoughts/page/2/#findComment-3777068 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Angel Scout Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 With regard to Angron's gladiatorial background, I'll propose the following context: We know he has the Nails that are effectively killing him, though we don't know when he was fitted with them, in terms of age. We don't know how long they have been in there. Now, taking the standard of all the primarch's physical development as within 5 years, reaching full size, we know he was captured at infant-child size so could have been put in the pits from day one, with his level of stamina/ease of fighting mortals i.e. including those with bionics/cybernetics, ogryns or even xenos, he slayed them too quickly or too efficiently for entertainment purposes.... which lead to the nails being fitted, to force a more visceral fight for the spectacle of the crowd, which in turn could mean that it was "See Angron versus the Galaxy- a full cycle display of combat as he takes on squiggoths, ambull and hrud, Orks, Eldar, a cohort of Cybernetica and much much more...get your electo-pass now!".....types of battles that would increase the effect of the nails, in the same way Khârn refers to the way it affected marines, each time the need/effect increased exponentially, which in a primarch, this would be magnified to greater effect but related to a period of time this changed the marine to look forward to the next battle, whereas Angron would have had his next fight, the next day and the next day, and the next....every day and only in close combat, constantly being challenged to survive, moulding him into the destructive force he is described as being. Still, not all primarchs think he couldn't be beaten....Lorgar's reasoning for saving Angron is that there are only two who could beat the Angel, him and Horus...and they need the boost from the warp to do so.....Russ in Vengeful Spirit says only Horus could take him out, no fear of Angron but they all recognise his ability Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295100-random-30k-thoughts/page/2/#findComment-3777090 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 If I recall right, I think that once Nostramo had reached a point of 'stability' - when everyone was too scared of him to commit even the smallest crime - Kurze stopped killing. Or at least slowed down. I guess in Kurze's view, those terrified/law abiding citizens were 'the innocents'. He had a quite bleak view of humanity, but (at least towards the beginning of his life) he would wait for you to step out of line before skinning you alive, rather than just skinning you alive with no provocation and saying "Well, better safe than sorry - that one looked like he might be a problem later." Though from the actions and attitudes of his Legion, we could theorise that Kurze didn't really see the passive citizens of Nostramo as innocents worth protecting, but selfish, weak cowards who just hadn't done anything bad yet, and who didn't really deserve protection. It slowed down. What happened was when he killed most of the rulers and took over, the society became orderly-ish. But there was still the occasional person who pushed the envelope or accidentally crossed a boundary and when that happened, Curze would hunt them down himself. In a way, it was the ideal of perfect order: Everyone was productive and obeyed the law. Those who didn't were punished not long after, resulting in a very small crime rate. The only downside was that it only happene because the people were scared to death. Literally. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295100-random-30k-thoughts/page/2/#findComment-3777173 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 just how effective are the night lord's scary tactics on their main foes? i can see it being great for subjugating human populace, but it doesn't have any real effect on space marines who "know no fear", right? or xenos who wouldn't be so much bothered by bat wings or human skulls. That is why the Night Lords prefer targetting weakly defended backwater worlds and try to avoid getting into fights with stringer opponents. They started using intimidation during the Great Crusade to keep the human worlds in check. Over the later course of the Crusade when more and more criminal elements from Nostramo were introduced to the Legion, they got more into it and started terrorizing their human victims just for the fun of it. Those tactics would be utterly uneffective against any 40K opponent except Imperial Guard, Tau, and some Eldar. curze's ideology that only terror and fear and martial rule can keep humanity in check must have taken a huge blow when he first heard of ultramar. 500 civilised worlds that worked just fine without oppression. To be fair, when Curze's background was written, Ultramar consisted of only 9 worlds. on the subject of curze...why does he want justice in any form at all, even initially? the world he was adopted by had no concept of it, so it's not like he learned it. is the suggestion that he innately desired goodness and justice (while also liking to have and eat his sadism cake) from birth? normally you learn these ideals from outside influences. i can even buy into the lion developing some sort of "honour of nature" from his upbringing...but curze? Maybe his actions were initially not motivated by bringing compensation to the victims as much as punishing the perpetrators. why is angron such a deadly fighter? from what i can see, every primarch bar dorn is afraid to face him. was there seriously anything in the slaver pits that could put him to the test. wouldn't he be a bit of a slob in ring? or is he just that naturally gifted? has his time as a gladiator ever been fleshed out or hinted at to explain his reputation? As others have suggested, he probably fought a variety of cybernetically enhanced alien brutes in the arena, not just puny humans. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295100-random-30k-thoughts/page/2/#findComment-3777482 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 It doesn't have to be big aliens or monsters. It could be hundreds of normal people. Primarchs aren't invincible and fighting hundreds of people simultaneously would be good training for anything. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295100-random-30k-thoughts/page/2/#findComment-3777563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc warhammer Posted August 14, 2014 Author Share Posted August 14, 2014 i can imagine that working as pure warm up spectacle in the fighting pit. angron the gladiator against a horde of hundreds of humans. come watch the slaughter! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295100-random-30k-thoughts/page/2/#findComment-3777842 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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