Zond Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Long time lurker first time poster. My gaming group is going to take the plunge into pure 30k as it reminds us of our old glory days of Adeptus Titanicus. We're not super competitive or going to tournaments, probably just going to run a few campaigns when Legions are settled upon. We've not played with GW rules in years, so we're wondering how balanced the Legion tactics are? We're trying to avoid any situation where players are either running ahead or lagging behind due to simply playing their favourite Legion. Anything we should tone down or avoid, or is it all plain sailing? :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295156-legion-balance/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Overall, there's considerably more balance within the HH than some of the monstrosities running amok in 40 (Seer council anyone?) Some Legion tactics/wargear/units/RoW/ characters are inherently better than others but given the wide (and ever growing) variety of units available, the overall balance is superb I've found Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295156-legion-balance/#findComment-3777054 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Brother 92 Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 As Balth said - the balance across the board is brilliant - there are a few stand-out units (but these are available for everyone) like the Spartan, Contemptor Mortis and Master of Signal - but there are counters to literally everything within the books, they've all been fully play-tested vs each other. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295156-legion-balance/#findComment-3777121 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratil Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Some of the legion tactics are better than others I think, but you're working on a much smaller scale of 'better' than with normal 40k. Ultimately good tactics and dice are most likely going to make far more difference than the legion's various rules I feel. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295156-legion-balance/#findComment-3777148 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 All in all, everything balances out in one fashion or another. But the easiest way to think of it is that y'all are using the exact same Codex, you're just using different Legions to gain access to extra rules and units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295156-legion-balance/#findComment-3777175 Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathspectersgt7 Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 No mystery to it at all you know what to expect, just hope the dice are good to Ya. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295156-legion-balance/#findComment-3777399 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zond Posted August 14, 2014 Author Share Posted August 14, 2014 Yeah we were concerned than the first four legions were all tad underpowered but if it balances out should be fine. There's only four of us something far participating, and only two have picked a Legion which are Iron Hands/Mechanicum Allies and Sons of Horus respectively. It's also a bit of abandoned relief as I have a tendency to get a bit too competitive (not that I'm good at it) and I have a habit of seeking the latest and greatest thing. Now I can happily pick my favourite Legion... Whoever that is. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295156-legion-balance/#findComment-3777627 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratil Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Personally I think it's less that the first 4 are underpowered and more than some of the later legions change things up rather more. Iron Hands/Mechanicum is going to need some thinking on your end because their forces can change the way you prosecute your war, Iron Hands marines are much tougher against your lower strength anti-infantry weapons, but can be more vulnerable to higher strength, lower ap firepower because they can't go to ground to improve their cover saves. Personally I don't think any are mathematically superior to the others, but tactically some of them require more thought and awareness of their rules to defeat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295156-legion-balance/#findComment-3777656 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 I think another part of it comes from the first being the first four. IIRC, even Forgeworld has said that the response to their Heresy series has exceeded expectation. I think that's why the first four got extra units and their own ROWs in Massacre, but then none of the already written Legions got anything new in Extermination. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295156-legion-balance/#findComment-3777666 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitnam Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 I think another part of it comes from the first being the first four. IIRC, even Forgeworld has said that the response to their Heresy series has exceeded expectation. I think that's why the first four got extra units and their own ROWs in Massacre, but then none of the already written Legions got anything new in Extermination. Well the other legions didnt really need anything new, all legions for the most part have 2 special units and a RoW. So Massacre didnt change anything, it just caught the first four up to where everyone else was supposed to be. I think the real noticable difference is in the Legion Army books, which made various balancing changes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295156-legion-balance/#findComment-3777675 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 True, very true. I haven't talked to any designers or anything, it just seemed to me that the catch up was necessary because the overwhelming reception motivated Forgeworld to try and push the envelope with Massacre. An then, as you pointed out, nothing new was needed in Extermination except the "new" Legions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295156-legion-balance/#findComment-3777703 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 As others have inferred, the beauty of HH is that all the Legions are based on the same core - but with very subtle, yet characteristic differences. Except for Alpha Legion who are OP of course *looks behind my shoulder nervously*. Anyhow, I still sometimes end up in very Rock-Paper-Scissors situations but its because of tactical or list choices that are not Legion specific. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295156-legion-balance/#findComment-3777720 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zond Posted August 14, 2014 Author Share Posted August 14, 2014 As long as what I settle on is OP it's balanced. :p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295156-legion-balance/#findComment-3777794 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Yeah we were concerned than the first four legions were all tad underpowered but if it balances out should be fine. There's only four of us something far participating, and only two have picked a Legion which are Iron Hands/Mechanicum Allies and Sons of Horus respectively. It's also a bit of abandoned relief as I have a tendency to get a bit too competitive (not that I'm good at it) and I have a habit of seeking the latest and greatest thing. Now I can happily pick my favourite Legion... Whoever that is. From my point of view the first four legions are underpowered compared to some of the later legions, but the margin isn’t really that wide since a lot of the special rules are situational. I find many of the ROWs to be pretty medicare as well. That might sound negative, but overall things are pretty level. There are good units, but they don’t stand out enough to overshadow other good options. There are a handful of overcosted and uneconomical choices, but you can almost always make them work. Many of the shortcomings are the results of keeping things fluffy and FW being at the mercy of GWs core rules (melee armies in a shooting edition, for example). Bottom line is that you have so many options in 30k that a lot of your performance will come down on how you use your army and how you design it to play. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295156-legion-balance/#findComment-3777959 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phalanx Warder Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 I am currently playing in a group of 30k gamer's and we represent the Imperial Fists, Ultra Marines, Dark Angels, Iron Hands, Salamanders, Iron Warriors, Death Guard, Night Lords, Word Bearers, World Eaters and a Mechanicum force. I can tell you that each game I have played or watched played was a close run thing (minus the dice gods intervention). There are units that stand out but not in that death star manner. And all though you could spam some of the nastier units your group sounds like a close knit bunch that are there for the foe and fun, not math hammer gamers of you will. I have actually lost the the Ultras who have no rules and are using the Legion Astartes rules VS my LA - IF rules so i would say its a balanced system. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295156-legion-balance/#findComment-3779632 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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