DIY chapter thoughts

[Deus Imperator Vult]

Firstly apologies for the cliche topic heading. Right, so I've been batting around the idea of my own DIY for a while now I don't play the games so the concept would only go as far as the page. So I started thinking of what could be a chapters unique specialisation and it dawned on me, unless I'm wrong, the Imperium has no aquatic warfare specialists. The closest I can think are the Iron Snakes. Anyway the Imperium isn't exactly lacking in Ocean worlds they've been mentioned in a couple of books and we know the Xenos make use of submersables and boats (Orks on Armegeddon.) So it definitely seems like the Imperium has a need so here's what I'm thinking; modified imperial equipment. A Thunderhawk varant that can land in the water perhaps even function as a gunboat maybe a submersable pattern of rhino and a star fort scuttled on an Ocean world as a Chapter Monistary. Subsonic bolters that can function underwater? As far as design and heritage go I was thinking something similar to Maori's ritual tattoos and/or scarification, ritual weapons made from coral of their homeworld? Or from animals of that homeworld daggers made from megladon sized shark teeth? I don't know why I keep coming back to them being Salamander desendants though I'm not entirely sure why. Thoughts?

[incinerator950]

Steel Cobras live in underwater pressurized bunkers in an Ammonia ocean, but they were declared heretics and excommunicated for venerating the emperor as animal totems.

 

Anyway, the problem with any single environment specialized chapters is that they're not created to fulfill an environment combat specialization, the guard has that function. Every Chapter takes some form of exotic and hazardous terrain training. So they're actually not in demand, although if a Chapter has more experience with it, the High Lords or someone will order them if they're reasonably within range. Second, why bother? Any void ship can go underwater, and Land Raiders can drive on sea floors.

 

Raptors are a exception only because they went through hell in the shape of jungles, and modified their colors based on that experience. Coincidentally that makes them better at it, but their specialty is infiltration and independent fighting companies.

 

Salamanders are difficult to descend from because they deny any lineage, and proving it from the cursed founding puts you in a boat with Black Dragons.

[Deus Imperator Vult]

Steel Cobras live in underwater pressurized bunkers in an Ammonia ocean, but they were declared heretics and excommunicated for venerating the emperor as animal totems.

 

Anyway, the problem with any single environment specialized chapters is that they're not created to fulfill an environment combat specialization, the guard has that function. Every Chapter takes some form of exotic and hazardous terrain training. So they're actually not in demand, although if a Chapter has more experience with it, the High Lords or someone will order them if they're reasonably within range. Second, why bother? Any void ship can go underwater, and Land Raiders can drive on sea floors.

 

Raptors are a exception only because they went through hell in the shape of jungles, and modified their colors based on that experience. Coincidentally that makes them better at it, but their specialty is infiltration and independent fighting companies.

 

Salamanders are difficult to descend from because they deny any lineage, and proving it from the cursed founding puts you in a boat with Black Dragons.

Agreed giving a single specification does lead to pigeonholing but what I mean is that living on an ocean world could lead to a certain affinity for that style of battle. There is a clear need for it in the lore of atleast one battle. Namely Armageddon, in both Helsreach and Blood in the Machine Orks using the water to cut Imperial supply lines is mentioned. It's not so much that that is all the chapter would do only that they could perform in that sort of theatre more so than any other chapter.

 

Can it? I've not read anything on a void ship being capable of functioning whilst submerged. Yes their a closed environment but the only example I can think of a Thunderhawk meeting the water it proceeded to sink. With the Landraider point again I've not read it but yeah it can drive on the seabed but I'm talking about being able to combat boats or assault submerged cities or cave systems. I just think that would lend itself to some cool scenes kind of like films like The Abyss.

 

Have the Black Dragons been confirmed? I thought they were just suspected like the Storm Giants. Anyway, I think the Salamander bit is more just because I like the whole Promethean creed rather than wanting them to be buddy buddy with Tu'Shun.

[Conn Eremon]

If you like the Promethran Creed, you could recreate it without needing to use Salamander gene-seed.

 

You can as well, though. Whatever the hold against descending from the XVIII Legion, my own Storm Bearers are openly sons of Vulkan, who follow a variation of the Promethean Creed that they call the Cyclopean Creed.

[Deus Imperator Vult]

Very true brother, to be fair I never really twigged the Salamanders have no decendents until incinerator pointed it out to me. It seems odd to me, I mean I know they didn't have a second founding as they were still mauled from the dropsite massacre but that's hardly still an issue M.41. The Tome of Fire books paint them as being pretty much at strength and if the Ravens and Iron Hands have managed to spawn sucessors so why not the sons of Vulkan? Has this ever been addressed?

[Conn Eremon]

I think it was the old Index Astartes article that first said there were no Salamander successors, and there have only ever been "possible" successors given.

 

As for why? I don't know, of you think about it logically it makes sense. After the Heresy, the Legion simply didn't have enough to split into another Chapter. This will likely be retconned when Black Library or Forge World reaches the 2nd Founding, but for now that is still the case.

 

But for later Foundings, I would think of it fr the perspective of those who make the decision of whose gene-seed is selected. Why the Salamanders? The Iron Hands have strong political ties to the Mechanicus, the Raven Guard and White Scars suffer less mutation, and the Imperial Fists, Ultramarines and Blood Angels are all more celebrated Chapters in the eyes of the Imperium. The Dark Angels and Space Wolves are both distrusted, but the Dark Angels are pure and powerful enough to still be selected occasionally. The Salamanders just don't present itself as a viable option.

 

But :cuss it, I say. Who is to say that the Salamanders' actions in such and such Crusades didn't put them on exceptionally good terms with a particular collection of High Lords who happened to declare a Founding and allow the use of stored Salamander gene-seed to be utilized? There are plenty of ways in which a Salamanders' Successor could come to be, whatever the case is with GW's official word on the matter. Which is itself meaningless, thanks to loose canon.

 

Hence, my Storm Bearers openly declare descendance from the great Vulkan. Your Chapter can, too. If you'd like it to. But once again, you can borrow from that which you like of the Salamanders without using their gene-seed to do it.

[Deus Imperator Vult]

Hmm you know I never considered the high lords having to sign off on a new chapter. Like you say it does make sense although I always percieved the Salamanders to be well liked seeing as how they are pretty much the most humanitarian chapter in the Imperium.

 

I also think the concept of the ritual scarification and tattooing fits quite close with Salamander behaviour.

[incinerator950]

The fluff, if older, describes Land Raiders as hermetically sealed for all terrain transport. That includes space and water.

[Sheesh Mode]

Charcharadons fit the bill as underwater specialists. 

[Deus Imperator Vult]

The fluff, if older, describes Land Raiders as hermetically sealed for all terrain transport. That includes space and water.

 

Well yes they're sealed but that doesn't solve other issues like crush depth or the potential of the vehicle becoming stuck.

Charcharadons fit the bill as underwater specialists. 

I did think that, especially when I was thinking about having huge sharks on the home world, but as far as I was aware Charcharadons don't have a home world so much as a fleet prowling the Ghoul Stars. But yes imagine a combination of Characharadons and Salamanders if you will.

[Conn Eremon]

There is a /tg/ Chapter called the Abyssal Marines or something like that, that you can check out on 1d4chan for inspiration, if you have the stomach for something created by Anonymous.

 

One thing that might help as well is to select a real world culture from which to draw inspiration or to base your home world off of.

 

If I can make a suggestion that you are free to run with if you'd like, I have never seen an Atlantis inspired Chapter. Recruit from BCE land-based populations, but the world's knowledge of the Chapter is a mythical telling of an advanced civilization that long ago sank beneath the tumultuous seas.

 

In truth, it's an underwater fortress-monastery, with spires that breach the waves and tower into the skies, but is so far from the nearest lands that not even the most daring and courageous of seafarers have gotten close enough to see them over the horizon. Perhaps have the planet dominated by a worldsea, the sole landmass being a closely clustered collection of island continents and island chains. The general populace could survive primarily as sea-based societies, the natural land resources simply not enough to sustain large communities on its own. But nonetheless, you could have prosperous river towns and flourishing port cities, a league of city-states and island nations. All modeled after BCE Mediterranean societies. It's a little like the Iron Snakes' home world, but you could add a lot more variety to the cultures simply by not restricting it to the Greeks and changing up the world's flora/fauna makeup.

 

Sorry, this tends to be my way of trying to help, by coming up with ideas that basically run along the lines of "Well, if this was mine, this is what I would do." Feel free to use it, or take inspiration from it, if you like it. :sweat:

[Messor]

Heh, always willing to offer fun suggestions, Cormac

 

The idea of using real world myths and cultures offers great building blocks, though. I don't think that there's anything wrong, per se, with having an "environment specialist" Chapter. I would suggest a) having them evolve by necessity into that specialization, rather than being commissioned that way and b)give them enough of that environment to justify it (or in other words, create that necessity).

 

Perhaps they are assigned to, or stranded in a system, or small collection of systems that is actually dominated by aquatic worlds. Maybe it's along a route used by enemy xenos, or chaos and needs protecting, or maybe the worlds form a small empire of tenacious, aquatic aliens. This will give the Chapter reason to adapt to this situation, which might mean developing ways to be better at aquatic warfare.

[incinerator950]

There was a SW story of underwater combat with the tau, and their vehicles being underwater.

[Deus Imperator Vult]

Not a problem brother that's how I do it as well. See that's quite similar to the idea I have to be honest.

 

I want to base them roughly off Maori culture combined in part with the ancient Athenians (in the sense they were a very seaworthy people). I like the idea of ritual tattooing also the idea of a Captain leading his company in a Haka style battle cry before charging just paints such a vivid picture in my head.

 

As far as the homeworld goes I like the concept of it being a volcanic ocean world full of coral reefs and small islands, think Hawaii and the carribbean. So port towns and tribal holdings but little beyond the use of black powder. That gives them a stable recruiting base like Fenris or Nocturne but keeps them in a state of awe at the astartes.

 

The chapter monistary I really like the idea of it being a star fort that was shot down generations ago and crashed on the planet. The techmarines can't make it spacefaring again but can keep it floating and able to defend itself. With flora and fawna I like the idea of their being lots of marine based death world level creatures perhaps even a semi sentient indigenous species... maybe something lizard based to further reenforce the Salamander connection.

 

Thanks Messor I agree it would be so much they were commissioned to fill that role it's more a product of their homeworld/system. Being aquatic specialists meaning they would have to be excessively mobile and accomplished in fighting in tight spaces could also lead to them having a lot of skill in ship boarding actions. So they wouldn't exactly be one trick ponies as it were.