Kill Team choice?

[Kilofix]

Wanted this to be specific to AM and there isn't a specific AM Tactics sub-forum so I hope its ok if I post this here.

 

I need a 200pt list for Kill Team - should I go with:

 

List A

Infantry Platoon Command - w/Missile Launcher & Krak

Infantry Platoon Squad - w/Missile Launcher & Krak

Infantry Platoon Squad - w/Missile Launcher & Krak

 

This would be lots of bodies with Krak, 3 x 2 wound MLs, one of which has Ignores Cover and the ability to give Orders like a second Ignores Cover to the other ML.

 

List B

Vet Squad - w/Missile Launcher, Plasma Gun & Krak

2 x Armored Sentinels - w/Missile Launcher

 

This would have 2 units with AV12 but far fewer bodies and no Orders for a second Ignores Cover. Though it will have a Plasma Gun with Preferred Enemy. And, if I can kill the opposing Heavy Weapons with my ML early then the Sentinels will be good if out of Krak range.

 

 

Thoughts? I'm open to other AM list suggestions too.

 

My opponents tend to play Space Marines that hug Cover for at least 3+/5++ (hence the Missile Launchers with Ignore Cover). Usually like 10 SMs (+Hvy / Spc weapons) + Rhino.

 

Thanks for the opinions.

[march10k]

Hmmm....where can I find the rules for kill team?

[Kilofix]

Black Librrary - Digital Edition.

 

But basically:

• 200 points
• 0-1 Elite / 0-2 Troop / 0-1 Fast
• Whole units are bought but every model acts independently (e.g. no coherency)
• ICs cannot join anybody
• No models with more than 3 Wounds or more than 3 HP
• No vehicles with more than 33 AV total all sides
• No flyers
• No models with 2+
• Extra models can't be generated
• 3 models are Specialists that can pick from the following (but two models can't pick the same Specialty):
  • Combat Specialists - with either Counter-Attack, Furious Charge, Hammer of Wrath, Hatred, Instant Death, Rage, Rampage
  • Weapon Specialists - with either Haywire, Ignores Cover, Master-Crafted, Pinning, Rending (shooting), Sniper, Split Fire, Tank Hunter
  • Dirty Fighter Specialists - with either Blind, Concussive, Fear, Fleshbane, Monster Hunter, Poisoned, Rending (close combat), Shred, Soul Blaze
  • Indomitable Specialists - with either Adamantium Will, Crusader, Eternal Warrior, Fearless, Feel No Pain, Relentless, Strikedown, Stubborn
  • Guerrila Specialists - with either Fleet, Hit & Run, Infiltrate, Move Through Cover, Night Vision, Preferred Enemy, Scout, Stealth

 

Otherwise, Missions are Objective or Kill based similar to AoW (except for one which isn't Relic but requires you to exit through your opponent's Deployment Zone) and have Slay the Warlord, Linebreaker, First Blood, etc.

[march10k]

thanks!  Um...split fire on a weapon specialist?  When every model is a separate unit?  Or do units still have to act as one, they just don't have to maintain coherency?  What about squad-affecting special rules, like orders and acts of faith?

 

Anyway, I would anticipate opponents spamming bodies (guard, orks, nids?), anything else is too expensive!  That would  suggest that heavy bolters would be better than missile launchers, especially at BS3.  It's basically guaranteed to put a wound on, while a ML might miss...

 

I might go with a squad of grenadiers with three plasma guns, plus two armored sentinels.  200 points exact, three plasma guns, 4+ armor, BS4, two AV12 vehicles with multilasers...seems stout for IG in kill team.  To be honest, though, I'd probably actually go with 15 battle sisters with 20 points of upgrades...3+ armor, BS4, boltguns?  

[Kilofix]

thanks!  Um...split fire on a weapon specialist?  When every model is a separate unit?  Or do units still have to act as one, they just don't have to maintain coherency?  What about squad-affecting special rules, like orders and acts of faith?

 

Anyway, I would anticipate opponents spamming bodies (guard, orks, nids?), anything else is too expensive!  That would  suggest that heavy bolters would be better than missile launchers, especially at BS3.  It's basically guaranteed to put a wound on, while a ML might miss...

 

I might go with a squad of grenadiers with three plasma guns, plus two armored sentinels.  200 points exact, three plasma guns, 4+ armor, BS4, two AV12 vehicles with multilasers...seems stout for IG in kill team.  To be honest, though, I'd probably actually go with 15 battle sisters with 20 points of upgrades...3+ armor, BS4, boltguns?  

 

Split Fire is per model meaning that if you have 3 shots from a Heavy Bolter then 2 can be directed at one target and the other 1 at a different target.

[march10k]

Gee...this is such a cool concept.  I'm dreaming up 200 point lists from all my armies now, lol...two fireknife crisis suits plus two stealth suits.  A dark angels assault squad.  15 sisters with a pair of meltas.  The squad of vets plus the squadron of sentinels.  

 

Split fire might be good for a heavy bolter, then.  I'm gonna double down on that.  Your list B is closer to what I would field, but I'm not sold on you needing three missile launchers.  I would probably give the vets two grenade launchers and an autocannon, and give the sentinels either autocannons or multilasers.  Try to squeeze in the carapace armor, though, seems critical in a low points game!

[march10k]

Hmmm...I'm thinking tau, actually...one cover-ignoring fireknife, one FNP fireknife, and one preferred enemy stealth suit. (plus two more stealth suits, of course).  Infiltrating stealth suits for sure, probably deploying the crisis suits back, the missile pods have good range, but possibly DSing them?  Or would ten fire warriors (one extra shot, worse armor, no cover bonus, longer range, no infiltration) be better than three stealth suits?  With everyone having access to ignores cover, I would worry about a BS4 plasma gun ignoring cover, that would screw the stealth suits over pretty good...

[Kilofix]

The thing is, if I'm going with lower Str weapons (and more 'shots') then maybe I should just go with List A because every model can throw a Krak grenade (since you aren't limited to 1 per Squad as there are no Squads) and List A has alot more models.

 

The other reason for MLs is - Instant Death against low count / high HP models.

 

I'll think about this some more.

 

Btw, yeah Kill Team is fun - and quick.

[WarriorFish]

I think either list would work, the numbers of the first one will be almost unassailable! I reckon it comes down to how you want to play - weight of dice or not. I think the second list might be a little better perhaps, but I'd try the first as you'd be able to dictate the game easily through numbers.

[hendrik]

How about putting a priest in list A and blob the enemy?

[march10k]

I don't think 25 models would be unassailable at all.  I can get 15 battle sisters with 20 points left over for gear. would you back 15 battle sisters against 25 guardsmen?  And can't the missile launcher models be picked off early, since they have ZERO meat shields?  A missile buried in a ten man squad is one thing, but when it can be targeted individually?  And krak grenades, really?  you have to get close enough to throw them first...I'm not seeing that as a viable source of high medium strength attacks...  I don't see three BS3 krak missiles as a credible threat to low model count lists.  1.5 hits on average?  Until the missile shooter is killed?  For IG, I'm liking armored sentinels a lot.  AV12 is pretty beastly in such a small format, and three AV12 vehicles is going to dominate.  That would leave 80 points (assuming multilasers) for a veteran squad, not a lot, which is why I only go with two plus plasma  grenadiers.  Three BS4 plasma guns plus two AV12 multilasers?  That's a helluva lot better in 200 points than three krak missiles.

 

How about putting a priest in list A and blob the enemy?

can't blob in kill team, every model is a separate unit once it hits the table, and you can't take any HQ

 

/edit/

 

What about a chimera?  Heavy bolter and multilaser to get three S5/6 hits on a model per turn, plus two weapons fired from the hatch, plus the bank of three lasguns fired from each side...that's five targets per turn being addressed with nothing but AV12 for the enemy to shoot back at (assuming nobody on the ground).  You could get two veteran squads, a chimera, and three grenade launchers for 200 points...20 bodies instead of the 25 in the all infantry version, plenty of S5/6 shooting...Bs4 on the infantry instead of BS3...or screw the chimera and go with 20 carapace vets.  carapace is key, boltguns don't penetrate. That leaves you 50 points for guns...two autocannons, three grenade launchers, and a plasma gun?

 

/edit again/

 

God, guard has so many juicy options in kill team!!!  

[Kilofix]

Good points all. Thanks! I'm considering them all.

 

Kill team is usually played on a 4' by 4' btw.

 

Also remember mission-wise there could be:

• Up to 3 Objectives to Capture
• Kill everything
• King of the hill (VP for every model on the 'hill')
• Get your models to exit through the opposing Deployment zone

So numbers and speed can count.

 

Usually I'll try to hide the Missile Launcher with in Cover way way back. It also has 2 Wounds. But yes, sometimes it gets picked off early. Which is why I like List 1 because I could have a second Missile Launcher with Ignores Cover through Orders. Though List B also gives me 2 more backup MLs - just without Ignores Cover.

 

Still decisions decisions....

 

march10K - I'm still interested in exactly what kind of AM list(s) you'd run after all this discussion - let me know!.

 

I've run Chimeras before but they are very expensive and hard to hide in Cover. I've had one blow up first turn and it was dissapointing.

[march10k]

~shrug~  Seems no different than having a land raider with a 4+ invul blow up on the top of turn one in a regular game...that can happen, but does it happen often enough to mean that they shouldn't be fielded?

 

I obviously have zero tabletop experience with the kill team format, but it does seem like the chimera blowing up first turn is an unusual event that is being magnified in your mind because it was so devastating.

 

I would probably run ten grenadiers with three plasma guns and two armored sentinels with multilasers.  Carapace armor, plasma, BS4, AV12, up to 12 S6-7 shots.  The plasma makes a good antitank weapon with the AV33 limit, to say nothing of killing marines.  That would trump the fifteen battle sisters list, being vastly superior to flak armor against boltguns, while S7AP2 is a much better choice against both power armor and light vehicles, compared to flak missiles.  S8 means nothing against marines (okay, the one feel no pain model. Big deal, one model!), and AP2 means everything against vehicles, not to mention the possibility of two shots instead of one. The missile's range advantage is negated by the small table.

[Kilofix]

~shrug~  Seems no different than having a land raider with a 4+ invul blow up on the top of turn one in a regular game...that can happen, but does it happen often enough to mean that they shouldn't be fielded?

 

I obviously have zero tabletop experience with the kill team format, but it does seem like the chimera blowing up first turn is an unusual event that is being magnified in your mind because it was so devastating.

 

I would probably run ten grenadiers with three plasma guns and two armored sentinels with multilasers.  Carapace armor, plasma, BS4, AV12, up to 12 S6-7 shots.  The plasma makes a good antitank weapon with the AV33 limit, to say nothing of killing marines.  That would trump the fifteen battle sisters list, being vastly superior to flak armor against boltguns, while S7AP2 is a much better choice against both power armor and light vehicles, compared to flak missiles.  S8 means nothing against marines (okay, the one feel no pain model. Big deal, one model!), and AP2 means everything against vehicles, not to mention the possibility of two shots instead of one. The missile's range advantage is negated by the small table.

 

Sounds good - I'll try using that list.

 

Btw, the other scary Kill Team lists to go up against are like 8 Bikes or like 6 Spawn - since they're tough and fast.

 

But I think your Plasma setup should take care of the Bikes and the Spawn may have a hard time with AV12 on the Sentinel.

[march10k]

I would love for stormtroopers to be a viable option, they're so fluffy for a small unit action like this, but...alas, you know?

 

/edit/

 

The plasma should handle spawn, too...?  I haven't faced spawn enough to have a feel for them, but S6 and S7 shooting in the kind of volume we're talking seems like it would do the trick?

 

8 bikes is pretty scary...but plasma will wound them on 2+ and force a jink, which won't save them from the one cover-ignoring plasma gun.  And then there's the preferred enemy plasma gun (not gonna get hot, not gonna fail to wound) as well, and FNP (to help with gets hot).  I would guess that three plasma guns kill two bikes per turn?  With two sentinels and seven other veterans out there, I think you could kill 3-4/turn, probably closer to 3.  I would back this list against 8 bikes!  

 

 

Anyway, with kraks being AP3 and vehicle armor being limited to AV33, I think plasma rules kill team.

[Kilofix]

I would love for stormtroopers to be a viable option, they're so fluffy for a small unit action like this, but...alas, you know?

 

/edit/

 

The plasma should handle spawn, too...?  I haven't faced spawn enough to have a feel for them, but S6 and S7 shooting in the kind of volume we're talking seems like it would do the trick?

 

8 bikes is pretty scary...but plasma will wound them on 2+ and force a jink, which won't save them from the one cover-ignoring plasma gun.  And then there's the preferred enemy plasma gun (not gonna get hot, not gonna fail to wound) as well, and FNP (to help with gets hot).  I would guess that three plasma guns kill two bikes per turn?  With two sentinels and seven other veterans out there, I think you could kill 3-4/turn, probably closer to 3.  I would back this list against 8 bikes!  

 

 

Anyway, with kraks being AP3 and vehicle armor being limited to AV33, I think plasma rules kill team.

 

Took your idea (in addition to your list) and am going to proxy my ST as Vets. They're Carapace anyway ya?

 

 

Still need to paint my Multi-Lasers. I just magnetized them and threw them on. Previously had MLs.

[march10k]

psst...those are lascannons, not multilasers

[Kilofix]

psst...those are lascannons, not multilasers

 

Whoops .... ah well, what's the difference between a little Str 9 and Str 6 between friends anyway huh? :P

 

Now where did I put my Multi bits?

[WarriorFish]

Depends if you paid the points for them or not :lol:

[march10k]

 

 

 

what's the difference between a little Str 9 and Str 6 

About ten points a model?  lol

[march10k]

Actually, I'm starting to think about plasma cannon armored sentinels, a much better value for 50 PPM. Why?  blasts aren't likely to miss a tank (so BS3 is no issue), S7 is pretty good, and AP2 is nice on the damage table...plus, plasma is pretty nice against most of the stuff that wrecks IG.

[Kilofix]

Plasma still scares me in Killteam though. Given that I only have 1 Preferred Enemy, limited models and ironic luck.

[march10k]

lol...yeah...forgot about Gets Hot on 2HP vehicles

[march10k]

This'd be my kill team (with the kasrkin serving as grenadiers):

[WarriorFish]

Nice, I'm sure they'd do a good job. This topic has helped me convince my gaming group to run some Kill Team games so I'll be coming up with my own lists to add soon :)