Wolf Guard Void Claws

[Wraithwing]

So, I picked up Champions of Fenris, and the Wolf Guard Void Claws have stood out as an interesting unit.

 

Basically, an at least 5 man pack of Wolf Guard Terminators with twin Wolf Claws each, they teleport in on turn 1, and as long as a model from the formation is alive, you can re roll reserve rolls.

 

This strikes me as having great affinity with a Drop Pod heavy force, and maybe even Harald outflanking with TWC.

 

Anyone got any thoughts on these?

 

Cheers,

 

WW

[skeletoro]

They do seem quite nice.

 

They will stand there in a blob the turn they arrive. No moving or charging as they deep struck, and they lack ranged firepower. Because they're all blobbed up, and because they only have 5+ invulnerable saves, they're quite vulnerable to plasma cannon fire. That said, they could get a turn 2 charge, which is about the best any mêlée unit can hope for.

 

Rerolling reserves is very nice. Note that we have a LOT of options for reserves fun, and I wouldn't be surprised if the formations in the next Sanctus reach book added more tricks in that department, and obviously if you're already getting auto-successes up the wazoo, the utility of a reroll on top of that will be curtailed somewhat. Whether it's redundant or not will depend on your list obviously. If we didn't have so many options in this department now, this formation would shine a lot more brightly.

[Rift Blade]

Maybe I'm wrong but can't you give one of them a CML? They HAVE to have TWIN WC's is all it states. Combine with Wolf Guard Thunder formation & you could have 3 units arriving by Deep Strike turn 1 if you only use one Drop Pod. Correct me if I'm wrong please.

[Pariah Mk.231]

Even if they can't shoot, they can still run, letting them spread out a bit to be less vulnerable to plasma cannons and other AP2 blasts. Plus you could always just drop them somewhere out of sight and move out in turn 2.

Include a rune priest with them and hope for Storm Caller, land them so they're obscured and go to ground to get a nice cover save (what is that, 2+?). Even if they're not obscured, that will still give them a 4+ cover save and anything that would ignore it will give them their normal 2+ saves.

 

Sure, either choice won't let you charge in turn 2 (unless you have a priest with storm caller, are obscured and DON'T go to ground and settle for a 3+ cover save), but they should still be alive for you to benefit from re-rolls. You also have them ready for a combined charge on turn 3 with your turn 2 arrivals.

[Dantay VI]

Could you not also drop the pod with a locator beacon before teleportation, and avoid any mishaps, plus use the pod as cover?

[Wraithwing]

Could you not also drop the pod with a locator beacon before teleportation, and avoid any mishaps, plus use the pod as cover?

Nope. They arrive turn one, and the locator beacon has to already be on the table.

[Dantay VI]

Ah so if you put the drop pod with locator beacon down first in turn 1 as part of a drop pod assault, the locator beacon is only effective from turn 2?

 

I thought that if the pod with locator beacon dropped first in turn 1, it worked immediately, so that anything else dropping/ teleporting after it in turn 1 benefitted from it.

 

My bad, thanks.

[skeletoro]

Ah, I hadn't thought about running. That makes me a lot happier about teleporting assault troops into combat!

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

I like the sound of this formation and I intend to give it a run after I Draft up a new list. I like the reserve re rolls rule seems like it will help bring in the stormwolf and the other termis.

[Pariah Mk.231]

Combine this formation with the stormstrike one and you can have all three units guaranteed to arrive on turn 1. The void claws drop automatically first turn and if you choose the wolf guard's pod to come in the first wave of drop pod assault, the other unit of terminators automatically come with them. With two more pods you can have four units drop right in the enemies face before he knows what's going on, with another on it's way.

 

Take both formations as part of a champions detachment with an HQ and the rest of your army as an unleashed detachment and you can automatically bring in one unit from reserves and, provided the void claws are still alive, re-roll the rest of your reserve rolls for a much better chance of bringing the rest of your reserves in next turn. Very useful for a full deepstrike army.

 

As a final bit of fun, kit the wolf guard unit out with some decent ranged firepower, such as plasma pistols/combi-weapons/stormbolters, and unleash the twin-linked joy as soon as you hit the table to maximize damage.

[skeletoro]

Would you be able to bring an attached IC along with the wolf claw guys?

[CatSmasher]

I'm thinking that I will put combi weapons, 4 plas, 4 melta, and two with SS, or power weapons. I will unload the TL plas with bolter support, and use them as expensive ablative wounds for a turn two charge with 4 or less melta. If you can position them behind cover and within Rapid Fire range, this unit will bring the pain.

 

 You could also melta on the first turn and reverse the strategy, but plas and bolter volume would be great to rip up an expensive unit, or MC. In the reverse role the overwatch volume may compensate if you get charged and are lucky.

[magnusthetraitor]

I don't see anything that would prevent you from attaching an IC. This formation looks like a lot of fun! I'll be giving it a try in my next game. 

I've been pretty impressed so far with Wolf Claws at S5. Attaching an IC with an AP2 weapon would go a long way towards making this unit a real threat on the battlefield.

[skeletoro]

That's what I have been thinking too, Magnus. It would be really thematic to add a character with the rending claws relic, though I think some high strength ap2 is probably a more sensible option.

 

CML? I'm of two minds about it. On the one hand, they will often want to run turn 1 to spread out. On the other hand, being able to shoot from turn 2 onwards isn't terrible - comparable to putting a heavy weapon TDAWG in a land raider or turn 2 reserves (being in a flyer would prevent CML fire until turn 3!).

[Valerian]

But given that they'll probably be in close combat from Turn 2 on, I wouldn't invest in CML

[wulfgar hammerfist]

The Void Claws look super useful on paper and coupled with the Thunderstrike formation could really give an opponent fits. I am tinkering with a list that features both formations in conjunction with a SW CAD in pods. It has the potential to be super killy!

[skeletoro]

I do think the void claws are a little outclassed by the shieldbrothers, though. At least in terms of their own combat effectiveness. Between HoW and their reflect ability, the shield brothers ought to have pretty high damage output. And at T5/3++ they are a whole lot more survivable.

 

Yeah, you have to invest in a LR, but it's not like they're deadweight.

[Valerian]

The Void Claws look super useful on paper and coupled with the Thunderstrike formation could really give an opponent fits. I am tinkering with a list that features both formations in conjunction with a SW CAD in pods. It has the potential to be super killy!

I've been thinking the same thing. Too bad I don't have a unit of 5 WGTDA with Wolf Claws. And, I don't really feel like building such a unit. Sigh.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

I like the void claws for their cost personally as well as their utility. They may not be as killy as the shield brothers, but the are also 40% of the price.

[skeletoro]

I'm not 100% sure the thunderstrike can come down on turn one. The special rule seems to only cover 'when rolling for reserves.' it says 'on a successful roll, [they come together]' - as worded I'm not sure the terminators can arrive turn 1. Though it doesn't seem to expressly forbid the drop pod arriving on turn 1 by itself.

 

Here's hoping it gets a clarification that allows the formation to arrive t1 via drop pod assault.

[Pariah Mk.231]

The drop pod would still be covered by the drop pod assault rule, so it can come down in the first wave. In fact, if it's your only pod it MUST come down first turn, bringing the terminators with it.

[Rift Blade]

Yeah, that was my thought s on it to. Just using the one pod so there would be no choice. One or 2 guys at my shop would argue it to death so this way there is no argument. 

[skeletoro]

As it is written, there's nothing to imply that dropping the pod on turn 1 (whatever the reason) would trigger the special rule.

 

It says 'when you roll for reserves, ' Are you rolling for the pod on turn 1? Nope, so the rule doesn't apply.
 

It only says the units arrive together 'on a successful roll.' Not that they always arrive together.

 

Now that leads to the situation that you're rolling for both on turn 2 even though the pod has already come down, which is admittedly strange. But reductio ad absurdum is a RAI argument, not a RAW argument.

 

My point is merely about RAW, by the way.

[Valerian]

That's how I read it, skeletoro.  If it's your only Pod and has to come down first turn, or if you simply choose for it to come down first turn out of multiple Pods, then it does, but the Terminators don't get to come down with it - there is nothing written in the rules that allows them to.  However, if you don't send your Pod down first turn, then the Formation's special rules apply, and they roll for Reserves as a group, and come down together.

 

V

[Wraithwing]

Quite pleased that I have the Stormclaw Terminators yet to build.

 

Sorely tempted to build them as Voidclaws after this discussion. And, they have the added bonus of looking very cool!