Stormwolf vs Crusader

[crucial]

Similar in both points costs and the roles they play in a SW army (BC & Priest/Ulrik delivery system) but which one comes out on top?

 

Potentially earlier charge with the crusader but arguably the stormwolf is more resilient...

 

The flyer has the better ranged weapons too but the Crusader can block line of sight to your vindicators/hunters/fangs...

 

Is it a case of shiny and new or does the new flyer outshine the 3rd edition delivery system of choice?

 

This is huge...

[Pariah Mk.231]

You forgot that the stormwolf can also function in an anti-flyer role, giving it another advantage over the crusader. It also can't be attacked in melee, is harder to hit without skyfire and can jink, improving it's odds of surviving long enough to deliver it's cargo.

[Lord Ragnarok]

Storm wolf is also a dedicated transport

[Heimdall Skullcrusher]

There are some downsides to a transport flyer though:

- Reserves can be unreliable and that could be a large portion of your army sitting out half the game.

- If the flyer gets shot down it tends to wipe out everything inside it which isn't the case with the land raider.

[Wraithwing]

There are some downsides to a transport flyer though:

- Reserves can be unreliable and that could be a large portion of your army sitting out half the game.

- If the flyer gets shot down it tends to wipe out everything inside it which isn't the case with the land raider.

 

Don't forget, The Wolves Unleashed Detachment means you're guaranteed one reserve to turn up turn two. You just make sure that's your Stormwolf. 

[Kasper_Hawser]

Bear in mind that the turn you deliver, you will have to switch to hover mode, in which case you could be potentially be blown up. Then again, once you have delivered your payload, half the role of the storm wolf is fulfilled. But if blow up, u lose a very versatile gun platform capable of harming everything in the game.

 

I think the answer to effective use of stormwolf is TOGETHER with the crusader. Wit h both, your opponent will be torn between two priority targets.

[Ullr Direfang]

Excuse my note being 100% familiar with the rules any more, but if you enter hover, aren't you a fast skimmer still, so you could just drop the troops and run bhind cover? and Can't fast skimmers still jink or something? If so, that just makes using the Wolf better.

[CatSmasher]

 

Excuse my note being 100% familiar with the rules any more, but if you enter hover, aren't you a fast skimmer still, so you could just drop the troops and run bhind cover? and Can't fast skimmers still jink or something? If so, that just makes using the Wolf better.

 

 

This is true, and in addition, the ceramite plating means the Stormwolf will be immune to melta bonuses

[Karack Blackstone]

Land Raider:

 

- Ground Transport

- Can start the game on the field

- HS Slot for BC's, DT for WGTDA

- Needs to spend valuable points on a MM

- No other anti vehicle firepower (TLAC is not bad)

- Cannot get Ceramite plating

- AV 14 All around rolling pill box

 

Stormwolf:

 

- Flyer Transport

- Must be in Reserve, WUD can allow turn two arrival

- Has Ceramite plating

- Cannot get EA

- Most mobile anti vehicle platform, possibly in the game

- No solid anti troop armaments (One TLHfC is not exactly reliable)

- Can pop enemy TEQ Models with up to four shots

- AV 12 is not as great, but equal to the best fliers in the game
- Str 10 AP 2 hit (I think) if shot down on all models transported

 

Shared:

 

- Transport Capacity of 16 Models

 

I'd say it happens to be a role on the battlefield need.

 

Go Flyer if you need something for anti air.  Go LRC if you need a rolling pill box or portable bunker.  Or, if legal, go Stormwolf DT for a BC pack and then stick them in a LRC if there's the chance, and have the enemy really pressed hard when the flyer turns up likely starting turn two.

[crucial]

A lot of points to go both in anything under 2000pts...

 

I am glad that its a tough choice between them with no overall winner!

[Vash113]

Personally I prefer the reliability of the Land Raider. It always rankles me when I have to keep units in reserve and cannot easily ensure when they will arrive.

[Lucien Eilam]

You can easily ensure when it will arrive though. Put it in a Wolves Unleashed Detachment and you can guarantee one reserve unit of your choice arriving every turn, with a chance of re-rollable Outflank.

[Vash113]

You can easily ensure when it will arrive though. Put it in a Wolves Unleashed Detachment and you can guarantee one reserve unit of your choice arriving every turn, with a chance of re-rollable Outflank.

 

Even so that's just one unit a turn, and frankly if I'm going to be putting anything in reserves there had better be more than one of them. I like to have my entire army ready turn 1 rather than drip feeding it in. And anyway, as I said above, that's what I prefer, that's just my opinion on the matter. When you get right down to it IMO the Land Raider is more reliable. Less weapons can hurt it, it's on the field Turn 1, with extra armor and smoke launchers there's very little the opponent can do to stop the vehicle delivering it's cargo where they need to go. Even with jink and armored ceramite the Stormwolf has to come in from reserves and when it does it's vulnerable to every interceptor gun around and it still has to change flight modes before being able to deliver its troops. Even if it arrives on Turn 2 that still leaves a Turn 3 deployment of the Blood Claws at the earliest.

 

And as I said the extra two points of armor should not be sniffed at. With those two armor points a whole host of weapons become unable to scratch the vehicle that still stand a chance of shooting down a Stormwolf. From plasma guns to multi-meltas and scatter-lasers, an entire range of medium strength weapons are ineffective against the Land Raider but still dangerous to the Stormwolf.

[Khine]

 

You can easily ensure when it will arrive though. Put it in a Wolves Unleashed Detachment and you can guarantee one reserve unit of your choice arriving every turn, with a chance of re-rollable Outflank.

 

Even so that's just one unit a turn, and frankly if I'm going to be putting anything in reserves there had better be more than one of them. I like to have my entire army ready turn 1 rather than drip feeding it in. And anyway, as I said above, that's what I prefer, that's just my opinion on the matter. When you get right down to it IMO the Land Raider is more reliable. Less weapons can hurt it, it's on the field Turn 1, with extra armor and smoke launchers there's very little the opponent can do to stop the vehicle delivering it's cargo where they need to go. Even with jink and armored ceramite the Stormwolf has to come in from reserves and when it does it's vulnerable to every interceptor gun around and it still has to change flight modes before being able to deliver its troops. Even if it arrives on Turn 2 that still leaves a Turn 3 deployment of the Blood Claws at the earliest.

 

And as I said the extra two points of armor should not be sniffed at. With those two armor points a whole host of weapons become unable to scratch the vehicle that still stand a chance of shooting down a Stormwolf. From plasma guns to multi-meltas and scatter-lasers, an entire range of medium strength weapons are ineffective against the Land Raider but still dangerous to the Stormwolf.

 

You have to remember that all of those weapons have to get 6s to even hit the stormwolf. Then they have to be lucky enough that the stormwolf doesn't jinx out of the way. Then they have to pen/glance.

 

For me, i'll be going  14 BCs (inc wg) + WP + Iron priest. Iron priest will stay in the stormwolf after the rest disembark. I suppose you can do that for the land raider too though.

[shandwen]

The big issue with a flying transport is the drop to skimming. It leaves the transport to die. Besides that issue, who wants to chance having a 200+ point transport and a 150+ point squad to one shot?

[Vash113]

 

You have to remember that all of those weapons have to get 6s to even hit the stormwolf. Then they have to be lucky enough that the stormwolf doesn't jinx out of the way. Then they have to pen/glance.

 

 

And as I said those weapons can't even scratch the Land Raider. Just because something is unlikely doesn't mean it won't happen, meanwhile the Land Raider is impervious.

 

Also Jink and Flyer don't save the Stormwolf from everything. More and more units and vehicles are being added to the game that have skyfire, and combined with ignores-cover they are a nightmare for flyers. The Helm of Durfast + ADL is not the first such combo to come down the pipe.

 

The big issue with a flying transport is the drop to skimming. It leaves the transport to die. Besides that issue, who wants to chance having a 200+ point transport and a 150+ point squad to one shot?

 

Good points.

[CatSmasher]

I ran a "null deployment list" yesterday including 2 Stormwolves, and three drop pods, against a tau army that knew they were coming. They were incredible. One died, but this was after it dropped its pay load and done a lot of damage.

 

I went first and forced jinks out of his skimmers with the pods, and with the fliers that came in turn two. His fusion and plasmas that managed to land were washed away with jink saves.

 

I ran it with ulrik and Las/melta and pressured his armour and riptide, basically forcing him to stay behind cover, my reserve dominance kept the pressure on, where my only concern was him tabling me after turn one.

 

Stormwolf will be filling the armour spot for me against Tau. I still love the LR against demons, nids, or hordes for LOS and table top psychology, but I'm loving the fliers for all their versatility 

[Wulfebane]

I've popped Land Raiders on turn one. And my own LRC has always been a main target so seldom makes it to mid-field before exploding its creamy filling all over the field. More often than not, this leaves me to feel my BC/TDA will be footslogging from the DZ. With the Stormwolf, I'm guaranteed a 36" advance on Turn 2 (assuming it comes in). Even if it blows up and kills some of those inside, I feel I'll have more BCs in melee by Turn 3 with a Stormwolf than I will with a LRC. Not to mention, the flyer is fresh on the table by Turn 2, whereas the LRC is likely missing HP at this point.

[TopToffee]

Can anyone explain to me why the LRC seems to be a much much more popular choice than the LRR?

 

The Redeemer always seemed to me to have much more oomph packed into its weapon load out. 

[Pariah Mk.231]

You need to get closer to make use of the redeemers weapons and it has 4 less capacity, making it less ideal for delivering a huge squad of claws to combat.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

I personally am a big fan of the redeemer.a few games I threw a 5 man tda thss squad with a claw/fist battle leader and they made a mess. Granted this was in 6tg They are funny if you outflank them to (warlord trait).