Grimtooth Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 "Or have a bit of honor and NOT be that guy." Every club needs one of those guys .. helps with not taking the game too seriously . . . LOL The problem with this idea harkens back to our last two codex releases where stuff like this only added more fuel to an already raging firestorm of whining cries of cheese and beardiness. Do we need to encourage the masses to whine even louder? Do we need to encourage the image of cheese anD beard? A large majority of the longtime posters here have taken the stance to police our own when it comes to stuff like this. Occasionally a new Wolves player comes in thinking they have found the Easter egg of all Easter eggs for a rules bending tweak or interpretation of the rules to gain what amounts to a minimal gain on the gaming board, but a huge loss in Wolves reputation. We have smacked down those things in the past and this is another that should be smacked down in turn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295341-champions-of-fenris-and-space-wolves-codex-hand-in-hand/page/2/#findComment-3782477 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper_Hawser Posted August 19, 2014 Author Share Posted August 19, 2014 Chill brother Ramses. I know well enough to not abuse the rules only in my favour. It's just that the Armour in CoF sounded crazy enough to try put on a Thunderwolf, we're just discussing that idea for lulz, not to troll everyone else. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295341-champions-of-fenris-and-space-wolves-codex-hand-in-hand/page/2/#findComment-3782749 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper_Hawser Posted August 20, 2014 Author Share Posted August 20, 2014 Wonder if anyone has tried CoF list yet? So far I have only seen one battle report for new Space wolves codex. Also got another question regarding Jaws of the World Wolf. I'm not sure what the rules are for focused witchfire, but basically how do you select the target of jaws? Is it the "nearest" model like normal shooting or can you actually select which model you want to see drop down a hole? If the latter, then Jaws might still be very useful if we roll it, we can use it to snipe special weapons such as power fists and meltas out of a group of units. Granted, with Initiative 4 every marines have a good chance of passing it but still, something to go on. Nurgle plague marines are Initiative though, so we can still possibly put their most dangerous model down a hole. What do you guys think? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295341-champions-of-fenris-and-space-wolves-codex-hand-in-hand/page/2/#findComment-3783542 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 "Or have a bit of honor and NOT be that guy." Every club needs one of those guys .. helps with not taking the game too seriously . . . LOL The problem with this idea harkens back to our last two codex releases where stuff like this only added more fuel to an already raging firestorm of whining cries of cheese and beardiness. Do we need to encourage the masses to whine even louder? Do we need to encourage the image of cheese anD beard? A large majority of the longtime posters here have taken the stance to police our own when it comes to stuff like this. Occasionally a new Wolves player comes in thinking they have found the Easter egg of all Easter eggs for a rules bending tweak or interpretation of the rules to gain what amounts to a minimal gain on the gaming board, but a huge loss in Wolves reputation. We have smacked down those things in the past and this is another that should be smacked down in turn. Let's be careful on the "smacking down" and "policing" of how players play/interpret their codex. That is not the mission of this board. Positive encouragement is ok, but anything aggressive, bully-ish, or condescending will not be OK. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295341-champions-of-fenris-and-space-wolves-codex-hand-in-hand/page/2/#findComment-3783549 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispy Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 "Or have a bit of honor and NOT be that guy." Every club needs one of those guys .. helps with not taking the game too seriously . . . LOL The problem with this idea harkens back to our last two codex releases where stuff like this only added more fuel to an already raging firestorm of whining cries of cheese and beardiness. Do we need to encourage the masses to whine even louder? Do we need to encourage the image of cheese anD beard? A large majority of the longtime posters here have taken the stance to police our own when it comes to stuff like this. Occasionally a new Wolves player comes in thinking they have found the Easter egg of all Easter eggs for a rules bending tweak or interpretation of the rules to gain what amounts to a minimal gain on the gaming board, but a huge loss in Wolves reputation. We have smacked down those things in the past and this is another that should be smacked down in turn. Its fun to think because we all like Space Wolves we're all comrades under the same banner but the truth is we're just strangers who are partial kind of plastic soldiers. We're not a community. I'm not so insecure to give a care of what sort of reputation Space Wolves players have. I can't control what others think of my army, nor can I control what other Wolf players do. Nor can you. You don't think it's intrusive to tell strangers what do with their toy soldiers? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295341-champions-of-fenris-and-space-wolves-codex-hand-in-hand/page/2/#findComment-3783552 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Mk.231 Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Just a heads up that your planned force isn't battle forged Kasper. To take the claws your lord has to be from the Champions detachment, which requires you to take at least one more Elites choice to meet the minimum. Bjorn and his mates are a formation, so sit outside a normal detachment and don't fill the minimum 1Hq/2Elite requirement. If you're going for Unleashed, you have to drop the claws. If you're going for Champions you need another Elites. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295341-champions-of-fenris-and-space-wolves-codex-hand-in-hand/page/2/#findComment-3783573 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Just a heads up that your planned force isn't battle forged Kasper. To take the claws your lord has to be from the Champions detachment, which requires you to take at least one more Elites choice to meet the minimum. Bjorn and his mates are a formation, so sit outside a normal detachment and don't fill the minimum 1Hq/2Elite requirement. If you're going for Unleashed, you have to drop the claws. If you're going for Champions you need another Elites. That's exactly right. Well spotted, Brother Pariah. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295341-champions-of-fenris-and-space-wolves-codex-hand-in-hand/page/2/#findComment-3783575 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper_Hawser Posted August 20, 2014 Author Share Posted August 20, 2014 Oh yeah, will need another elite to be CoF. Nuts, may have to cut down the Grey Hunter Pack 2 & 3 to create maybe another two terminator squads, maybe a bit more CC oriented or also Meltacide in case first meltacide squad fails. Thanks for pointing that out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295341-champions-of-fenris-and-space-wolves-codex-hand-in-hand/page/2/#findComment-3783585 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper_Hawser Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share Posted August 24, 2014 Got two questions about Space Wolves that came about tonight in my game against daemons (sadly I lost due to poor list and bad rolls). 1) A repeat of my last question which was left unanswered last round, can Jaws of the World Wolf be used to snipe a specific model? Or is it just the nearest model? 2) Regarding the Fenrisian Wolves many of our characters are allowed to take. If a character takes a couple of wolves, are they allowed inside a transport such as a Drop Pod, Rhino or Land Raider? Some guys at my FLGS pointed out that Fenrisian wolves are beasts, and therefore can never be put inside transports which specifically state can hold only infantry. but if that is the case, then it means whoever wants to take Fenrisian wolves has to footslog and can't embark on any transport to go faster. That can't be right. How was this interpreted in our previous edition? I seem to recall that the wolves are regarded as "upgrades" in the past and are not units per se, but the wording is really ambiguous. Page 94 of the codex just states that the independent character and his wolves are treated as one unit, that can freely join another unit. But if he joins another unit, will the wolves count for transport capacity? Or for that matter, can they go inside transports with the character? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295341-champions-of-fenris-and-space-wolves-codex-hand-in-hand/page/2/#findComment-3788515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rift Blade Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Don't know for sure(hell, I've yet to play a game of 7th) but seeing as how specific they were Jaws in the last dex, I would follow the normal rules for focused witchfire out of the psychic rules on p 27 in the mini rule book. If you exceed, you pick the target. If you meet, closest model. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295341-champions-of-fenris-and-space-wolves-codex-hand-in-hand/page/2/#findComment-3788542 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squark Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Jaws is a focused witchfire. See the section in the rules that defines what they do. It's quite clear. By RAW, Characters with Fenrisian Wolves cannot board transports unless all the wolves are dead. In the previous edition, Fenrisian Wolves had a special rule that allowed them to ride in transports with their owner, but that rule is gone, so they can't. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295341-champions-of-fenris-and-space-wolves-codex-hand-in-hand/page/2/#findComment-3788565 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper_Hawser Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share Posted August 24, 2014 Oh OK, so basically I need more than 2 succeeded warp charges of 4+ to be able to pick the model I want. If I only meet the bare minimum of 2 Warp charge dices succeeding, it'll be the nearest model. thanks for pointing that out. Sheesh, as if its not hard enough to utilise Jaws with 2 warp charges, we have to risk further perils by rolling more warp dice if we really want a specific model dead. And even then if it is a Space Marine, it'll only be 33% chance of dropping him down a hole. Why the heck can't they have just nerfed it to 18" and kept it as a beam? I can accept Monstrous creatures being immune but this nerf takes the cake. Regarding the question about Fenriisian wolves, I can't see anything in the previous rulebook that specifically says they're allowed into transports. Was this in an old FAQ? If so, could there possibly be an FAQ update in future regarding this? Otherwise the Fenrisian Wolves wargear will probably be only useful with a character on Thunderwolf. Even Ragnar won't be able to take his Fenrisian wolves if he wants to drop pod. This is seriously a real hamper to assault army plans, forcing us to footslog or go Big Bad wolf if we want those extra ablative cheap wounds. sigh..... On a separate note, i assume all formations in Champions is allowed to combine in a Space Wolves Unleashed detachment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295341-champions-of-fenris-and-space-wolves-codex-hand-in-hand/page/2/#findComment-3788608 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squark Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Uh... sort of. Formations are their own detachments. So, you can take a Space Wolf CAD and, say, the Dreadnaught formation, but those dreadnaughts aren't part of the CAD. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295341-champions-of-fenris-and-space-wolves-codex-hand-in-hand/page/2/#findComment-3788622 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonSTeR Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Have to say that I feel like I'm cheating by using the CoF list. +1 WS for certain units because you use a different force organisation chart? This to me shows how 7th edition is even more broken than 6th :( I understand and dislike the commercial aspects (the pay to win situation) I love the mythos, but 'meh' to the army list as a whole... and that from a guy who's played Space Wolves since1987 ... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295341-champions-of-fenris-and-space-wolves-codex-hand-in-hand/page/2/#findComment-3788676 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 We will not debate the merits of 7th edition. We will discuss Champions of Fenris. Pre-Warning. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295341-champions-of-fenris-and-space-wolves-codex-hand-in-hand/page/2/#findComment-3788706 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squark Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 The Company of the Great Wolf has some powerful rules, yes, but objective secured is really, really, good. Obsec rhinos tank shocking people off objectives? Yup. Drop pods landing on objectives and pushing everyone else away? Unless your opponent blobs around it, yup. Seriously. Objective Secured is a huge part of the game. CoF isn't broken. It's just the first detachment that has actually been able to compete with the stock CAD. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295341-champions-of-fenris-and-space-wolves-codex-hand-in-hand/page/2/#findComment-3788727 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 The Company of the Great Wolf has some powerful rules, yes, but objective secured is really, really, good. Obsec rhinos tank shocking people off objectives? Yup. Drop pods landing on objectives and pushing everyone else away? Unless your opponent blobs around it, yup. Seriously. Objective Secured is a huge part of the game. CoF isn't broken. It's just the first detachment that has actually been able to compete with the stock CAD. Exactly, plus the requirement to declare and accept challenges whenever necessary can be a major disadvantage as well. The CoF detachment is far from OP, it has some advantages, some disadvantages but I think the most interesting thing it does is allow for a very different type of list from the core Space Wolf book. Not necessarily a more powerful list, but a different one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295341-champions-of-fenris-and-space-wolves-codex-hand-in-hand/page/2/#findComment-3788735 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rose Princes Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Have to say that I feel like I'm cheating by using the CoF list. +1 WS for certain units because you use a different force organisation chart? This to me shows how 7th edition is even more broken than 6th the main trade off using Champions of Fenris FOC is losing "Objective Secured" Troops; i find that very balancing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295341-champions-of-fenris-and-space-wolves-codex-hand-in-hand/page/2/#findComment-3788737 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatSmasher Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 I have basically exclusively played malestrom missions since the start of 7th, I love the mechanic. I just want to add that I don't see the loss of Obsec troops as a terrible penalty. Its has been rare in my game where both sides are after the same marker. The actual task of "holding" an objective does not dominate the game style. You're as often tasked with killing a psyker or MC, and the one possible VP shouldn't necessarily derail you battle strategy. I also feel our Codex suits a multiple detachment set up, with cheaper and powerful HQ, you can sneak a few obsec RB into your list without hurting your overall strategy, and still benefiting from our great formations Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295341-champions-of-fenris-and-space-wolves-codex-hand-in-hand/page/2/#findComment-3788781 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonSTeR Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Ok let me offer a more balanced opinion... I find 7th edition too complicated with the rules spread over so many locations and yearn for the simpler days of 3rd edition. As such I find it hard to come to terms with the fact that selecting effectively the same force using a different FOC and acquiring different bonuses counter intuitive. I wish that the supplement could have been incorporated into the main codex as I'd feel less confused.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295341-champions-of-fenris-and-space-wolves-codex-hand-in-hand/page/2/#findComment-3788783 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squark Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Objective secured doesn't have a huge effect on the game until someone in your metagame realizes just what it can do- and then it's critical. So, to return to the original point, no, COF is not overpowered. It just challenges some preconceived notions people had about the game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295341-champions-of-fenris-and-space-wolves-codex-hand-in-hand/page/2/#findComment-3788883 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Ok let me offer a more balanced opinion... I find 7th edition too complicated with the rules spread over so many locations and yearn for the simpler days of 3rd edition. As such I find it hard to come to terms with the fact that selecting effectively the same force using a different FOC and acquiring different bonuses counter intuitive. I wish that the supplement could have been incorporated into the main codex as I'd feel less confused.... what's confusing? That's what the community is here to provide ...assistance and insights. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295341-champions-of-fenris-and-space-wolves-codex-hand-in-hand/page/2/#findComment-3788932 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatSmasher Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Also, what is so balanced about your opinion relative to others? The idea of a supplement is probably better for a casual player, since you'd be upset about a 120 dollar codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295341-champions-of-fenris-and-space-wolves-codex-hand-in-hand/page/2/#findComment-3789013 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Regarding the question about Fenriisian wolves, I can't see anything in the previous rulebook that specifically says they're allowed into transports. Page 31 of 5e codex, Loyal Companion rule. No longer present in 7e codex, so Fenrisian Wolves are out for all Wolf Lords planning to embark a Transport, but still work well for those on TWCs, Bikes, or just Footslogging it. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295341-champions-of-fenris-and-space-wolves-codex-hand-in-hand/page/2/#findComment-3789115 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rose Princes Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Page 31 of 5e codex, Loyal Companion rule. No longer present in 7e codex, so Fenrisian Wolves are out for all Wolf Lords planning to embark a Transport, but still work well for those on TWCs, Bikes, or just Footslogging it. V bikes are terrible with wolves as you lose both Fleet, Run and Turbo Boost. with guys on foot the wolves just lose Fleet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295341-champions-of-fenris-and-space-wolves-codex-hand-in-hand/page/2/#findComment-3789122 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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