shabbadoo Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Master of Sanctity is the best novel about DA and one of the best written by Gav Thorpe... Unfortunately you may be correct. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295348-every-company-master-a-member-of-the-inner-circle/page/3/#findComment-3836071 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Master of Sanctity is the best novel about DA and one of the best written by Gav Thorpe... It is the best DA novel written by Gav.. I think there are other novels which feature the DA that are better even tho they are not the main protagonists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295348-every-company-master-a-member-of-the-inner-circle/page/3/#findComment-3839285 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Still think the best story about dark angels featured cloud runner, lame bear and two heads talking... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295348-every-company-master-a-member-of-the-inner-circle/page/3/#findComment-3840068 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Still think the best story about dark angels featured cloud runner, lame bear and two heads talking... Weasel Fierce was my favourite. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295348-every-company-master-a-member-of-the-inner-circle/page/3/#findComment-3846927 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Sergeant Bohemond Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Having re-read the codex fluff recently on Company-Master's, there is a discrepancy here I think. It says they are all part of the Inner Circle (you can all read your own entries :P) in the Company-Master background. Additionally, on p.45 the DWK unit entry states that "...only the Masters are of greater rank in the Chapter, and they are chosen only from within the stern order of Knights". So I think Gav basically did it because he wanted to add tension to the novel. That said, perhaps Issachar is only on a low rung? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295348-every-company-master-a-member-of-the-inner-circle/page/3/#findComment-3846967 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Again, there are discrepancies even before that. Look at the Inner Circle section under Dark Heritage, and then look just two pages later in the first paragraph under Chapter Organization (pages 19 and 21 in the iBooks version of the Codex): they contradict each other right there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295348-every-company-master-a-member-of-the-inner-circle/page/3/#findComment-3847161 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffJedi Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 From Angels of Darkness: As an Interrogator-Chaplain, Boreas was a member of the third level of the Inner Circle, which itself was the seventh level of secrets within the elite Deathwing. What do you make of this? Sounds to me that there are two different tracts at once he is on. It could be that each specialty has its own level of secrets. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295348-every-company-master-a-member-of-the-inner-circle/page/3/#findComment-3848067 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Diifferent Circles for different ranks. A lower level Inner Cirlce command figure may know as much as a high ranking Inner Circle non-command figure. In this instance the lower levels of command knowledge overlap with the higher levels of non-command knowledge, but where the non-command level knowledge ends at a certain point, the command level knowledge continues... http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e245/btmcrae/dasmiley.gif Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295348-every-company-master-a-member-of-the-inner-circle/page/3/#findComment-3848170 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 From Angels of Darkness: As an Interrogator-Chaplain, Boreas was a member of the third level of the Inner Circle, which itself was the seventh level of secrets within the elite Deathwing. What do you make of this? Sounds to me that there are two different tracts at once he is on. It could be that each specialty has its own level of secrets. Sounds to me like there might be four levels of mysteries one can attain within the Deathwing before he truly becomes a member of the Inner Circle. I quite like that concept, as it helps reconcile some of the contradictions between page 19 of the Codex and others of its sections. Perhaps the order of progression of the Deathwing is something like: 1. Deathwing Terminator 2. Deathwing Sergeant 3. Deathwing Champion 4. Deathwing Knight From there, you enter into the Inner Circle proper. The third of the Inner Circle's levels of secrets would then indicate the minimum "circle of trust" one must earn before he can become an Interrogator-Chaplain. The same would apply with the other ranks. Thus, a Deathwing Sergeant who, for one reason or another, never becomes a Deathwing Sergeant (perhaps he simply isn't as good a tactician as his peers) may still ascend to the second level of secrets of the Deathwing. Conversely, in order to become a Deathwing Sergeant, a Dark Angel cannot just be a very good tactician and leader, but must earn the right to ascend to the second level of secrets. Does that make sense? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295348-every-company-master-a-member-of-the-inner-circle/page/3/#findComment-3848182 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Sergeant Bohemond Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I think the only thing we can say for certain is that Deathwing Knights know more than their brethren in the First Company. Sergeants may, or may not, have been initiated into a higher level than their fellow brothers. Or, there might be an older brother in their squad who sucks at leading (comparatively) but has greater mental fortitude and is at a higher level, perhaps near to becoming a Deathwing Knight. The only rank I think would know more than anyone else in the First Company (bar, perhaps, Belial) are the Knight Masters of the Deathwing Knight Squads. I think the Champion is more of an honorific reserved for people who are good at fighting and can uphold the honour of the Company/Chapter rather than a higher level of trust. They usually accompany a senior member of the IC - Chaplain, Librarian or Master - so they will not be exposed to problems that someone in authority cannot deal with. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295348-every-company-master-a-member-of-the-inner-circle/page/3/#findComment-3848229 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I think the only thing we can say for certain is that Deathwing Knights know more than their brethren in the First Company. Agreed - on general lines (see below). Sergeants may, or may not, have been initiated into a higher level than their fellow brothers. Exactly: this is the concept that informs Apothecary Nestor from Angels of Darkness. That is, an individual whose level of initiation within the Inner Circle belies his outward rank. Or, there might be an older brother in their squad who sucks at leading (comparatively) but has greater mental fortitude and is at a higher level, perhaps near to becoming a Deathwing Knight. We might have to agree to disagree here. Given that Company Masters are selected from the ranks of the Deathwing Knights, I have a hard time reconciling the idea that an individual without potential for command would be admitted in this "pinnacle within [the] elite". The only rank I think would know more than anyone else in the First Company (bar, perhaps, Belial) are the Knight Masters of the Deathwing Knight Squads. I wouldn't be so sure about that. I mean, don't get me wrong, I think this would be an extremely rare case, but refer back to your first point: there may always be that one guy who doesn't have rank... but has ascended through the circles of trust for some reason or another. I think the Champion is more of an honorific reserved for people who are good at fighting and can uphold the honour of the Company/Chapter rather than a higher level of trust. They usually accompany a senior member of the IC - Chaplain, Librarian or Master - so they will not be exposed to problems that someone in authority cannot deal with. Agree to disagree, I guess. "None but the most fell-handed of warriors from the 1st Company are promoted into the Inner Circle of the Deathwing," (that is, the Black Knights" and who would meet those qualifications better than one of the Deathwing Champions? As we know that skill-at-arms alone is not enough, and that dedication to the Chapter and an obsession for the Hunt are prerequisites, what better way to gauge a potential candidate's commitment than to serve alongside one of the highest-ranking members of the Inner Circle? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295348-every-company-master-a-member-of-the-inner-circle/page/3/#findComment-3848515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandwen Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 From Angels of Darkness: As an Interrogator-Chaplain, Boreas was a member of the third level of the Inner Circle, which itself was the seventh level of secrets within the elite Deathwing. What do you make of this? Sounds to me that there are two different tracts at once he is on. It could be that each specialty has its own level of secrets. Sounds to me like there might be four levels of mysteries one can attain within the Deathwing before he truly becomes a member of the Inner Circle. I quite like that concept, as it helps reconcile some of the contradictions between page 19 of the Codex and others of its sections. Perhaps the order of progression of the Deathwing is something like: 1. Deathwing Terminator 2. Deathwing Sergeant 3. Deathwing Champion 4. Deathwing Knight From there, you enter into the Inner Circle proper. The third of the Inner Circle's levels of secrets would then indicate the minimum "circle of trust" one must earn before he can become an Interrogator-Chaplain. The same would apply with the other ranks. Thus, a Deathwing Sergeant who, for one reason or another, never becomes a Deathwing Sergeant (perhaps he simply isn't as good a tactician as his peers) may still ascend to the second level of secrets of the Deathwing. Conversely, in order to become a Deathwing Sergeant, a Dark Angel cannot just be a very good tactician and leader, but must earn the right to ascend to the second level of secrets. Does that make sense? It appeared from the most recent books that the sergeants are the people who are solid leaders, and who don't ask questions and follow all the rules. The books made it seem that people are "promoted" more often for being inquisitive or for being in the "wrong" place. I wish i could remember the squad leader of the main 5th company guy in Ravenwing, but he seemed to be stuck as he followed orders, and didn't ask questions. It would also justify the lack of hth killyness in the DA codex to explain that the unforgiven are not promoted for ability quite so much as for knowledge. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295348-every-company-master-a-member-of-the-inner-circle/page/3/#findComment-3849094 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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