Grey Knights origins

[Daemon2027]

Ah, no sir. Omegon, I suspect, may be their spiritual leader, but I also suspect that their Gene-Seed hails from that made by Arik Taranis, the last Thunder Warrior.

 

No gene-source, a blend of multiple Astartes and Thunder Warrior genetics (including a Thousand Son), and as understood, the thunder warriors were exceptionally resilient to corruption and psychic attack.

I now have the image of the Unknown Son leading a band of bastard Thunder Warriors against Angron and a horde of Bloodletters.

[Hyaenidae]

Remember, of the Traitor Legions, the Alpha Legion show some of the highest levels of mutation despite consistently being seen far away from places like the Eye of Terror.On the other hand, the Night Lords are seen being in the thick of the warp and yet are surprisingly pure in gene-seed with only minor, if any, mutations appearing in the average individual.If the Grey Knights came from a Traitor Legion(and may the Night Lords community forgive me for saying this), chances are it lies with the VIII rather than the XX.

 

 

Source on both, please. The old AL IA states that the AL gene-seed shows some gene-seed mutation, and the few times that they have been seen using mutations, it was as shock tactics (considering who we're talking about here, even those mutations could be a fallacy as well: vat grown limbs giving the appearance of mutation, etc)

 

The problem with the NL being loyal is a bit simpler. Culturally, they were sick to the core. A desire for power, whether it being over the weak, or for more material-esqe ideals, born of a criminal world, and reinforced by a culture that despises faith in all it's forms, left few who could withstand base urges. Talos, Mercutian, and Sevatar seems to be aberrations in a Legion of villains.

 

None of the Legions known could have donated genetic material in a singular way to the Grey Knights without compromising their mission and charter. The best answer is that the material used could only come from an unsourceable individual. Arik Taranis is the best choice for this material. The best answer for Janus is a mighty warrior who's name is an utter lie, thus none could have power over him. Omegon cannot be his true name, much like everything else in his life. A primarch who is familiar with lies, and knows how to resist them, how to see through them, how to twist them to his gain. A creature capable of thinking asymmetrically, outside the box, to combat a problem. A warrior capable of making insanely difficult decisions for the betterment of the whole.

 

Omegon is Janus. The Grey Knights are a blend of genetic material of all the Legions, and the Thunder Warriors.

 

Mark my words.

[Kol Saresk]

Night Lords IA article, Section titled "Gene-Seed".

 

The gene-seed of the Night Lords seems to be surprisingly pure. In fact, of all the Chaos Space Marine Legions, the Night Lords seem to bear the least evidence of mutation. This is perhaps due to a stable gene-seed stock, perhaps due to the fact they rarely associate themselves with a particular Chaos power for any length of time.

Alpha Legion IA article, Section titled "Gene-seed".

 

While the Alpha Legion does not reside in the Eye of Terror and therefore is not plagued by the warping effects of that maelstrom of insanity, there is still evidence of mutation in the gene-seed. If such a problem existed prior to the Heresy, it was kept concealed. Given the Legion's predilection for secrecy, that would not be surprising. During the Lethe Ambush(cf Gothic War Inq. file 237xii), mutated Alpha Legion Space Marines hid their warped body parts, not out of shame, but so they could reveal them as they attacked - adding horror and revulsion to the shock of their attack.

So as seen, the Night Lords are surprisingly pure even though they jump from dealing with one power to the next. When this behavior was observed in the XVI Legion/early Black Legion, it resulted in many of their number being killed by hosted daemons and random mutations. But such is not the case for the Night Lords.

 

Meanwhile, the Alpha Legion is specifically noted for residing outside of the Eye of Terror and yet still show evidence of mutation. Meaning that their gene-seed can mutate without the aid of the warp.

 

So between the two, the VIII Legion gene-seed is more resilient to mutation.

[Hyaenidae]

Or the mutation was always there, but hidden. One couldn't say the Salamanders gene-seed is pure, for example. That's not a qualitative assessment for loyalty or resilience to warp-touch.

[Kol Saresk]

True. But mutation still exists. Meanwhile, the Grey Knights gene-seed is supposed to be free of mutation. So if the mutation was already there, the Alpha Legion is goodbye. If the gene-seed is easily mutated, the Alpha Legion is goodbye.

[Fire Golem]

Doesn't Extermination make reference to the AL gene seed being quite stable? Or am I making that up...

[Hyaenidae]

The Alpha Legion alone, yes. Newly re-engineered geneseed, blended together with multiple Legion's gene-sequence, and the gene-coding of Arik Taranis, would be utterly pure. Incorruptible. Resistant to psychic assault.

 

Omegon as Janus is simply the Knight's spiritual founder. The genetic material used to make the Chapter comes from Arik's basement-made gene-seed.

[Kol Saresk]

At least, that would be one assumption. At the moment, we haven't even seen what that gene-seed does.

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Perhaps the Grey Knight geneseed comes from a different source?

 

We know that the space marines were a refinement of the original concept the Emperor put in place with the Thunder Warriors - what if the Grey Knights are drawn from a prototype developed by the Emperor for his next level of conquest - the Webway. He must have known that he'd have to defeat the Eldar to gain dominion over the Webway, so he'd be facing psychic warriors, and he knew not all areas of the Webway would be secure from the true warp.

 

An army of incorruptible psykers would be perfect for conquering the Webway, and he'd have to ensure their geneseed's purity to avoid the horrors faced by the Thousand Sons.

 

I'm not suggesting this is feasible, or that its supported by any fluff, I just like the idea of: Thunder Warriors to conquer Terra > Space Marines to conquer the Galaxy > Grey Knights to conquer the Webway

 

Just a thought experiment

[Hyaenidae]

Well, yeah. This whole thread is one huge conspiracy theory, lol. Everything is suspect, nothing is true.

 

Be careful, Kol. You're treading on my dreams.     :P

[Kol Saresk]

Okay Sean Bean.

[Cerbero666]

I'm confused, wasn't the Emperor's own geneseed what was used to create the GKs? Omegon could be more of a founder in the sense of the guy who organized it. And yes I'm with the theory of him being Janus. It makes too much sense since The Serpent Beneath. 

[Hyaenidae]

I'm confused, wasn't the Emperor's own geneseed what was used to create the GKs? Omegon could be more of a founder in the sense of the guy who organized it. And yes I'm with the theory of him being Janus. It makes too much sense since The Serpent Beneath. 

 

It was assumed that the Emperor was the source, but there is no conclusive proof. The last Thunder Warrior, Arik Taranis, making new and unsourced gene-seed all by his lonesome pretty much threw a monkey wrench in the works, as that is one heck of a deus ex machina to simply toss away.

[The Red Thirst]

Now that I think about it Heathens the Janus / Omegon theory is actually quite solid, "and a brother who would willingly betray his own (Traitor Primarchs) for some half imagined redemption (forgivness for allowing his twin to turn? perhaps) the more and more i think about it, it makes a lot more sense.

 

Can anyone tell me what happens in The Serpent Beneath?

[Wade Garrett]

I'm a bit iffy on the idea of Arik Taranis creating gene seed superior to anything the Emperor ever managed by tinkering with some progenoid glands in a cave with a box of scraps.

 

Not to mention that there's no proof whatsoever that the Thunder Warriors were resistant to Chaos corruption. Indeed, given their tendency to mutate and go violently insane, I think the opposite is more likely to be true.

 

From The Outcast Dead, we can say they were resistant to psykers attempting to probe or influence their minds, but so were the XII Legion after they'd all accepted the Butcher's Nails.

[Artein]

Now that I think about it Heathens the Janus / Omegon theory is actually quite solid, "and a brother who would willingly betray his own (Traitor Primarchs) for some half imagined redemption (forgivness for allowing his twin to turn? perhaps) the more and more i think about it, it makes a lot more sense.

 

Can anyone tell me what happens in The Serpent Beneath?

Don't remember it clearly but

 

Omegon led a mission against his own Legion because of some Alpha Legion shenanigans. After that while he was in his room he took another set of armour from his secret wardrobe, "plain and unadorned", "covered by a loose shroud".

 

[Hyaenidae]

I'm a bit iffy on the idea of Arik Taranis creating gene seed superior to anything the Emperor ever managed by tinkering with some progenoid glands in a cave with a box of scraps.

 

Not to mention that there's no proof whatsoever that the Thunder Warriors were resistant to Chaos corruption. Indeed, given their tendency to mutate and go violently insane, I think the opposite is more likely to be true.

 

From The Outcast Dead, we can say they were resistant to psykers attempting to probe or influence their minds, but so were the XII Legion after they'd all accepted the Butcher's Nails.

 

What I'm saying, though, is that Arik has the ability to do so, not that the gene-seed he created in his meth-lab was superior. Yet.

 

With his ability and mind, the genetic of mutlipe gene-seeds from each of the legions, and himself, could be mixed to create something superior down the road. A selective process, that destroys the worst traits of the Legions, and enhances the greatest.

[Kol Saresk]

But just how superior did the Emperor actually make the gene-seed? Remember, part of Deliverance Lost is that actually pure gene-seed is superior to what the Astartes themselves carry and that the only reason it doesn't exist is because the Emperor purposefully engineered flaws into it.

 

So Arik's meth-lab-seed might be superior to what the Astartes carry, but that doesn't mean it is superior to what the Emperor has created.

[Hyaenidae]

But it will be specifically adapted to conduct the Knight's charter.

 

I've never been of a mind that the Grey Knights are simply genetically better. Their purpose, to combat the evils of the warp, is a multi-spectrum combination of training, meditation, mind-wiping, ethos, and faith. The resistance to the warp through that seed is simply their root, the base of the tree that makes up the trunk, strong enough to withstand the storm where other would waver and crack.

 

If a Grey knight was killed, and his gene-seed randomly implanted in some joe shmoe by a normal apothecary from a random chapter, would that make a Grey Knight? Heck no. He doesn't have the skill or training, the faith or the mental scouring that goes with the advanced plate and weapons. He's just a normal Marine, with some unique traits.

 

Anybody with one eye, a little arm strength, and most of their fingers can shoot a rifle. That doesn't mean they're gonna hit diddly squat. But, with time, dedication, training, and experience, they can become sharpshooters at a minimum. But, even out of a group of sharpshooters, there is usually only one or two that could ever have the ability to become snipers.

[Cerbero666]

I'm a bit iffy on the idea of Arik Taranis creating gene seed superior to anything the Emperor ever managed by tinkering with some progenoid glands in a cave with a box of scraps.

 

Not to mention that there's no proof whatsoever that the Thunder Warriors were resistant to Chaos corruption. Indeed, given their tendency to mutate and go violently insane, I think the opposite is more likely to be true.

 

From The Outcast Dead, we can say they were resistant to psykers attempting to probe or influence their minds, but so were the XII Legion after they'd all accepted the Butcher's Nails.

 

Well, Tony Stark did it 

 

[Ordo Machinum]

I'm a bit iffy on the idea of Arik Taranis creating gene seed superior to anything the Emperor ever managed by tinkering with some progenoid glands in a cave with a box of scraps.

Not to mention that there's no proof whatsoever that the Thunder Warriors were resistant to Chaos corruption. Indeed, given their tendency to mutate and go violently insane, I think the opposite is more likely to be true.

From The Outcast Dead, we can say they were resistant to psykers attempting to probe or influence their minds, but so were the XII Legion after they'd all accepted the Butcher's Nails.

Well, Tony Stark did it

Yeah, but Tony Stark probably becomes the Emperor for all we know...

The Thunder Warriors mutations were more likely a result of the flaws placed within their gene seed by the Emperor. If Chaos affected them, theoretically it may have made them more stable as a result.

[Perrin]

The Ultramarines series by Graham McNeil implies that Grey Knights are genetically superior to normal marines. Take that as you will.

 

 

 

Is now a good time to mention that Khyron is Sevatar or should I save that fire starter for later?

[Hyaenidae]

Later. ;)

[Wade Garrett]

Is now a good time to mention that Khyron is Sevatar or should I save that fire starter for later?

I need to dig up that post where I irrefutably proved Khyron was Lotara Sarrin.

[Slips]

For now we're trying to conclude what this Conspiracy within a Conspiracy that may or may not (may not not not O_o) have been possibly started by Omegon? Maybe? Means.