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Grey Knights origins


hopkins

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Very good point M2C.

But anyway, because someone brought it up ... whistlingW.gif

Khyron is essentially Chiron but spelt in the same Nostroman style as, for example, the Kyroptera instead of Chiroptera (the order of mammals that bats belong to).

Chiron also fits with the naming style of the Grey Knight founders we already know, Janus and Epimetheus. Cerberus would also fit, but that's not a subject I'm going anywhere near tongue.png

So yeah, I get that there is no evidence that Sevatar is Khyron beyond personal belief, but I believe that that is evidence that Khyron is a Night Lord. We have already seen loyalist Night Lords in one of the Corax short stories.

Do you guys ever get the feeling that we actually are right sometimes with our crack pot theories in guessing who are GKs and then the authors hear about it?

 

 

I feel like it would steal their thunder a bit lol and they might just switch that character out.

 

 

 

 

"Surprise you jerks! Character X isn't going to be a GK anymore, now it's going to be random legionary #345712!!! Hahaha"

 

 

Maybe I'm just crazy but I feel that somebody could get spiteful like that lol

Do you guys ever get the feeling that we actually are right sometimes with our crack pot theories in guessing who are GKs and then the authors hear about it?

 

 

I feel like it would steal their thunder a bit lol and they might just switch that character out.

 

 

 

 

"Surprise you jerks! Character X isn't going to be a GK anymore, now it's going to be random legionary #345712!!! Hahaha"

 

 

Maybe I'm just crazy but I feel that somebody could get spiteful like that lol

Supposedly, George R. R. Martin recently vented his own frustrations at (and I am putting this in spoilers, because if true than it is a big one)

a certain unexpected, popular Jon Snow theory basically robbing the eventual big reveal of its intended shock value.

 

 

When you get a fanbase that big, there will always be a large amount of people who will simply look too much into things and spin countless conspiracy theories about even the smallest of things.

 

And some of them are bound to be right.

I think that could work. Think about it, Lorgar turned to Chaos because he believed that it was needed for Humanity to ascend to the next level of evolution. When he realizes he is wrong, he defects.

 

And Erebus an Kor Phaeron, who are already no strangers to "mistranslating" the Word of Lorgar, simply tell the XVII that he has entered into communion with the Dark Gods.

 

And from there, Lorgar uses his knowledge of the inner workings of Chaos to shield the Grey Knights. And it makes since because it also gives way for his knowledge to be used to create the Exorcists, who are all possessed until they can self-exorcise the daemon.

 

We have the actual need for redemption, the basis for creating anti-daemon wards and a truth that would shake any loyalist to the core.

 

Good job Cormac. You solved the riddle of Janus.

Maybe the death of the emperor is enough to bring lorgar to his senses look at horus the veil lifted for him maybe lorgar finally realised the poison that Erebus and Kor are.

I wish

I truly sympathise with lorgar

I too sympathise with Lorgar. I feel he gets a lot of bad press. I wish that would happen too but I just don't see it. And as Kol said, I get the impression that Lorgar already knows Kor and Erebus are poison, he doesn't seem to heed them at all as the heresy goes on. I really wish Khârn had killed Erebus. I hate Erebus.

Very good point M2C.

But anyway, because someone brought it up ... whistlingW.gif

Khyron is essentially Chiron but spelt in the same Nostroman style as, for example, the Kyroptera instead of Chiroptera (the order of mammals that bats belong to).

Chiron also fits with the naming style of the Grey Knight founders we already know, Janus and Epimetheus. Cerberus would also fit, but that's not a subject I'm going anywhere near tongue.png

So yeah, I get that there is no evidence that Sevatar is Khyron beyond personal belief, but I believe that that is evidence that Khyron is a Night Lord. We have already seen loyalist Night Lords in one of the Corax short stories.

Bingo! I too believe that Khyron is a Night Lord, but with the Sevatar theory being continuously de-bunked it can't be him. There's supposed to be an audio drama about the Night Lord Chief Libarian coming out if I remember rightly, perhaps he will be Khyron?

My founding masters list is currently the following though;

Janus- Omegon

Epimethius-

Zaherial

Khyron- Zharost/ Unknown Night Lord

Unamed- Umojen

Unnamed- A Luna Wolf. (Neither Loken or Severian fit the bill in my opinion, but Severian has an inkling of a chance.)

Unnamed- Ultramarine (Not necessarily Rubio.)

Unnamed- The Thousand Son from Rob Sander's short story. (I've forgotten the name.)

Unnamed- Not sure.

I've believed for some time that Garro/Loken will go on to find the Red Hunters, will all the remaining Knights Errant and Garro's DG being executed/killed or forming the Red Hunters.

Heathen's theory about the geneseed is spot on though, that's too awesome not to be true.

Edit: Considering Abbadon goes and talks to all of the Daemon Primarchs to earn their support (Including Lorgar), Lorgar isn't Janus. In be for Horus is Janus crackpot theory.

Propaganda goes a long way to filling in blanks in history. Remember, every single view we have of the 40K-verse is biased. Period. As omnipotent readers, we have the advantage of seeing multiple views and how the truth resides in the middle.

 

But it still does not make us infallible as there as many viewpoints as there are people.

 

If Abaddon says he talked to the Primarchs(most of whom haven't even been seen by their own Legions in years numbering centuries, if not millennia), then Abaddon talked to the Primarchs.

 

At the same time, if the deep, dark, dirty secret of the Grey Knights is that Lorgar was Janus, then Lorgar is Janus.

 

Both are right and wrong because they are opinions perpetuated through word of mouth.

@_@

 

Mind blown the grey knights were founded by a demon primarch!

 

We all heard lorgar was the last to ascend who says that chaos did want the grey knights founded in order to perpetuate a 10000 year chaotic bloodbath that is the 40k universe and then went to bed in his chambers with a do not disturb sign on the door

 

Unnamed- The Thousand Son from Rob Sander's short story. (I've forgotten the name.)

 

Is that the same Thousand Son that's meant to found the Blood Ravens, according to a different (and far more likely to be false imo) fanon conspiracy theory?

 

 

Unnamed- The Thousand Son from Rob Sander's short story. (I've forgotten the name.)

 

Is that the same Thousand Son that's meant to found the Blood Ravens, according to a different (and far more likely to be false imo) fanon conspiracy theory?

 

 

No it's a different story of which I can't remember the name of. Synopsis:

 

 

A few Imperial army troopers search an abandoned and damaged ship only to find a legionnaire in unadorned armour alongside thousands of psychic children. The legionnaire reveals himself to once have been of the XVth legion and declares he's taking the children to Titan.

 

 

That's all I remember about it. IIRC it was in a Gamesday anthology, I read spoilers for it on the forums a fair length of time ago now.

 

 

@Kol- That's very true tbf, heck the whole story around the founding 8 follows that sort of bias. Weren't they all rumoured to be of the traitor legions in older fluff? Which isn't the case anymore for sure.

If fans guess a reveal before it is released, they should chug along and reveal it anyway. Imagine how excited everyone will be in the aforementioned GoT reveal, when what they've thought for over a decade turns out to be true.

 

 

Also, if GRRM would, you know, finish his series, it would be less time for people to make up theories that might be right.

At the same time, if the deep, dark, dirty secret of the Grey Knights is that Lorgar was Janus, then Lorgar is Janus.

Wait, you were serious about the Lorgar thing ? I thought it was a joke, akin to Alpharius + Lost Legions = Star Child.

 

Because well, from the codex: Black Legion, a omniscient narrator tells us that Abaddon learned secret arts of Daemon binding from Lorgar just before the 13th BC.

Let me put it this way. I take Lorgar being Janus as seriously as I take Sevatar one day deciding he wants to fight for the Emperor that he became infamous for being the first to curse.

 

EDIT: That said, I have no problem participating in think tank-type discussions. Its like that belief a tolerant society is supposed to have, "I disagree with your opinion, but I have no problem with you having it, nor do I have a problem discussing it from your point of view."

Tolerance is a moral form of decay. tongue.png

Let's suppose Lorgar created the Grey Knights. If we take the fact that Lorgar is a Daemon Primarch, quietly doing his Great Game duties on Sicarus, with Abaddon coming by just before the launch of the 13 BC to have a chat.

Then how could he be at the extreme opposite side of the spectrum ?

Does it mean that the omniscient narrator is lying and that the Lorgar on Sicarus is a fake ? Or that Horus won the Heresy, because one of his clones created by Bile traveled to the past thanks to the Warp to kick the Emperor right where it hurts ? Or the Lost Legions + Alpharius = Star Child * Sharrowkyn ?

If fans guess a reveal before it is released, they should chug along and reveal it anyway. Imagine how excited everyone will be in the aforementioned GoT reveal, when what they've thought for over a decade turns out to be true.

 

 

Also, if GRRM would, you know, finish his series, it would be less time for people to make up theories that might be right.

Agreed, and it is nice to know that GRRM agrees as well.

 

 

“I struggle with this because I do want to surprise my readers, delight them and take them in directions they didn’t see coming. I hate predictable fiction as a reader. I want to surprise and delight my reader and take the story in directions they didn’t see coming. Some readers in Internet boards got the clues. Do I change it? No, I can’t, as I had planted them and it would be a mess,” he said at the Edinburgh book festival, as quoted by Gizmodo.

 

“I’ve been planting all these clues that the butler did it, then you’re halfway through a series and suddenly thousands of people have figured out that the butler did it, and then you say the chambermaid did it? No, you can’t do that.”

 

http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/562423/20140812/george-r-martin-game-thrones-jon-snow.htm#.U_X2Msvn-v0

 

 

Hopefully, the BL staff would also agree.

 

Though, the BL staff is supposedly notorious for keeping itself separate from online communities such as this one, with folk like AD-B and Pyroriffic being outliers. So they don't have to agree, since they likely won't know.

I would argue that the revelation GRRM is referencing would likely be received incredibly poorly if he changed it in the last minute, where as the Grey Knights founders being different would only be poorly received by the handful of people invested in it on the single digit online forums that discuss 40/30K and be taken in stride by the mass of players who only read the BL books as a supplement to their codex.

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