Kriegsmacht Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Isn't that just Tuesday for the Empire? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295352-grey-knights-origins/page/9/#findComment-3790197 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Didn't Epimetheus summon a greater daemon back in his Pre-Grey Knights days? Haven't read the DA novels in a long time but he wasn't exactly a shining example of a marine loyal to the Emperor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295352-grey-knights-origins/page/9/#findComment-3790221 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbero666 Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 About Sevatar not turning loyalist because he's a psycho and like to torture and flay loyalists... You heard about General Butt Naked? He was a cannibal who killed children and ate their hearts and drank their blood (only one of the examples) during Liberian Civil War...he's a "pacific" christian preacher now...And that's real life... But either way, I don't think Sevatar could be the founder of the GK's, not one of the founders. I think that A-D-B denied it already. . . . do you mean pacifist? Yes, my bad Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295352-grey-knights-origins/page/9/#findComment-3790239 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 No, ZaharielEpimethus was responsible for banishing a daemon. And that's still all contingent on the whole "Me and Cypher switched destinies" thing. His "big bad" was that when Luther tried to lead Caliban in secession, he decided he'd work against it from the inside out. Specifically after he realized Luther wanted to control aforementioned daemon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295352-grey-knights-origins/page/9/#findComment-3790331 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 No, ZaharielEpimethus was responsible for banishing a daemon. And that's still all contingent on the whole "Me and Cypher switched destinies" thing. His "big bad" was that when Luther tried to lead Caliban in secession, he decided he'd work against it from the inside out. Specifically after he realized Luther wanted to control aforementioned daemon. Was that working from the inside out in one of the more recent shorts? I can't seem to remember it from Fallen Angels Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295352-grey-knights-origins/page/9/#findComment-3790344 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Mostly supposition drawn from the fact that at the end of the novel he decided he would lie to Luther. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295352-grey-knights-origins/page/9/#findComment-3790364 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Jago Sevatarion. He's the first person to say "Death to the False Emperor". His hobbies include torturing Loyalists until they turn traitor. Fans think he's a viable candidate to help found the Grey Knights. Ooooooooooooookay. Yeah. You know that guy Lorgar who worshipped the Emperor as a god? And Horus is His favorite son? No way those guys will ever forsake him. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295352-grey-knights-origins/page/9/#findComment-3790540 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrafficCustodes Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 If Zahariel was, indeed, the unnamed character in 'Grey Angel', he has definitely decided to work against Luther from within the Fallen. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295352-grey-knights-origins/page/9/#findComment-3790647 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Yeah. You know that guy Lorgar who worshipped the Emperor as a god? And Horus is His favorite son? No way those guys will ever forsake him. ;) Two characters who have multiple 300+ plus page novels explaining in detail why they rebelled. And over here we have Sevatar. With the evidence for "Guys guys he was totally a secret loyalist like Loken and Garro and Tarvitz and everyone else in the Traitor Legions but Abaddon & Erebus" is..... Sevatar sometimes leans on his chainglaive in a casual manner. In M41 there's a statue of a Grandmaster leaning on a halberd in a casual manner. These two things are obviously exactly the same. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295352-grey-knights-origins/page/9/#findComment-3790677 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praetor of Calth Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Yeah. You know that guy Lorgar who worshipped the Emperor as a god? And Horus is His favorite son? No way those guys will ever forsake him. Two characters who have multiple 300+ plus page novels explaining in detail why they rebelled. And over here we have Sevatar. With the evidence for "Guys guys he was totally a secret loyalist like Loken and Garro and Tarvitz and everyone else in the Traitor Legions but Abaddon & Erebus" is..... Sevatar sometimes leans on his chainglaive in a casual manner. In M41 there's a statue of a Grandmaster leaning on a halberd in a casual manner. These two things are obviously exactly the same. It's an idea borne out of the idea that Sev. hates chaos, has growing discontent with his primarch and his legion, and Khyron obviously being a Night Lord with the two hints we have. Not to mention the quote on Khyron's statue hinting he once fought for the traitors meaning he switched sides. The halberd is an indicator of nothing tbh. It's a possibility for Sev's fate, an unlikely one, but one that could be written into the story. Would it work if Sevatar was still the character he is now when he turned? No. But we still have half the heresy and at least one NL book to find out, which fill in those 300 odd pages. Character arcs are an important part of the series and Sevatar's is a long way from it's completion, you can't rule anything out as an impossibility in a setting of finite impossibilities. Heck, look at the earlier post on why Lorgar is Janus, I can't see it happening, I think it would silly if it did due to the small canon conflict, but if written in a plausible manner it could work. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295352-grey-knights-origins/page/9/#findComment-3790726 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 The longer the Garro arc goes on, the less I enjoy it. Discussions like this drive me up the wall. What's the point of plot? Why is it always getting tied into the Grey Knights? Isn't there just a chance the Knights Errant and Grey Knights have some overlap, but the Knights Errant mission and purpose is separate? The OSS and CIA had some overlap, but are entirely different beasts. The OSS isn't around anymore, but the CIA still does the secret squirrel stuff. We need to stop with the idea that there are only a handful of important players in the Heresy and they go on to form the important players of the institutions of 40K. It's shallow to think that. The Legions were huge, and their light burned brightly and briefly. 40K is meant to be a setting where the Imperium is a bastardized version of the 'true' imperium of the Great Crusade. The legionaries who made the biggest difference and survived past the siege are tragic relics, not the eternal heroes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295352-grey-knights-origins/page/9/#findComment-3790745 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 There's things that suggest that it could be him. But your absolutely right Wade in that it's unlikely as of now with the little information we have now. But if it were to be him I'm sure we'd get a 300+ novel attempting to explain why. I say attempt because even though Horus had such a novel Mr. McNeil went "How dare he declare himself a god when he's not!" and "Where's my statute??!!" to "He is a god. Basically." That could be an awesome read IMO. How a sadistic nihilistic transhuman sociopath becomes a loyalist because "reasons" (hopefully good ones). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295352-grey-knights-origins/page/9/#findComment-3790752 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 I'm just not seeing how a man who was willing to sacrifice himself to save his father, who committed his entire order of sworn swordbrothers to stand by his Primarch's suicidal last stand, who surfed a spacefighter rather than miss the last stand himself, and who was quoted in ADB's NL trilogy as saying: Because we are brothers. We've all betrayed others and been betrayed in turn. Seen gods and demigods die. I am here, because you are here. Because we are brothers." Is an incipient malcontent who is only one epiphany away from betraying Curze, the VIII, and the Atramentar. Honestly? I'm sure most don't mean it this way, but at times it feels like: "Sorry heretic, you aren't allowed to have cool characters. Only loyalists get those. We're taking Sevatar back for the Emperor now." To which my retort was and remains: "NO! My Sevatar! Go play with your Loken, Garro, Tauro Nicodemus, Bjorn, Alexis Polux, Sigismund, Corswain, Amit, and Warsmith Dantioch!" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295352-grey-knights-origins/page/9/#findComment-3790786 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 BS, Wade! :P Everyone knows traitors get all the cool characters! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295352-grey-knights-origins/page/9/#findComment-3790793 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Hey! Argel Tal counts as two characters! No fair! ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295352-grey-knights-origins/page/9/#findComment-3790906 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaSY Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 I always think Zahariel is the current Cypher. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295352-grey-knights-origins/page/9/#findComment-3791797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 So, I was reading the Grey Knight codex the other night and got to a passage about the Words of Banishment. Its stated that there are 666 of them and that only Grand Master Janus has memorised them all since it takes a great deal of mental fortitude and force of will. Now, in 10k years, there would have probably been another GK astartes to have done so but, if Janus was NOT a standard (as far as GK go) astartes and was...greater, that would probably explain why he did what no other has been able to in ten Millennia. Also keep in mind that Alpharius and Omegon were described as being the smallest Primarchs and having the easiest time of blending in with other Astartes, if anything just being remarked upon as being taller Space Marines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295352-grey-knights-origins/page/9/#findComment-3795331 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 And quite possibly the most complex minds of all the Primarchs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295352-grey-knights-origins/page/9/#findComment-3795369 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 I'm not sure "convoluted" equates as "complex", but I have been wrong before. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295352-grey-knights-origins/page/9/#findComment-3795383 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Varying degrees, brother. Each of the Primarchs are complex in their own way, but the XX Primarchs are complex like Pandora's Box. Perfect for the charter of the Grey Knights. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295352-grey-knights-origins/page/9/#findComment-3795395 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpha One Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Omegon as the founder of the Grey Knights? It could happen, my question though is how Logan Grimnar ends up killing him 10k years later? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295352-grey-knights-origins/page/9/#findComment-3795551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Answer: He doesn't. He Killed "Omegon" though! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295352-grey-knights-origins/page/9/#findComment-3795557 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Wait what? Whoduhhow now!?!?!?!?!? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295352-grey-knights-origins/page/9/#findComment-3795560 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Omegon as the founder of the Grey Knights? It could happen, my question though is how Logan Grimnar ends up killing him 10k years later? ...What? Where the hell is that said?!? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295352-grey-knights-origins/page/9/#findComment-3795572 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriegsmacht Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I think it's part of that joke that Omegon is everyone Edit: Even when he's in theory part of another group he's a sneaky bugger Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295352-grey-knights-origins/page/9/#findComment-3795574 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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