Chaplain_Sam Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Anyone else feel like almost every BA character/HQ should have the option to take jump packs? Ideally we'd have the option to leave the packs off too, rather than being stuck with them. I'd love to take Gabriel Seth with a squad of ASM. Obviously he still wouldn't be the ideal HQ, but at least I wouldn't feel like I am putting myself at a huge disadvantage. Likewise, it would be nice to take Lemartes without a jump pack. It just seems like as the "jump pack space marines", we should have that flexibility. Corbulo with a jump pack would be gravy. Thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295371-jump-packs-for-ba-characters/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishFuzz99 Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 That would be nice. Lemartes looks like he would be lots of fun, but the cost of running jump pack DC to go with him is just too high. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295371-jump-packs-for-ba-characters/#findComment-3780935 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 That would be nice. Lemartes looks like he would be lots of fun, but the cost of running jump pack DC to go with him is just too high.Just put Lemartes and footslogging DC in a Stormraven. Yes, such options would be awesome, but it seems that optional transportation for special characters only eseems to come in the form of vehicles (Moondrakkan, Slableclaw etc.). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295371-jump-packs-for-ba-characters/#findComment-3780942 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain_Sam Posted August 18, 2014 Author Share Posted August 18, 2014 That would be nice. Lemartes looks like he would be lots of fun, but the cost of running jump pack DC to go with him is just too high.Just put Lemartes and footslogging DC in a Stormraven. Yes, such options would be awesome, but it seems that optional transportation for special characters only eseems to come in the form of vehicles (Moondrakkan, Slableclaw etc.). That Stormraven would be a juicy target. Good point on Moondrakkan and co. Hopefully the trend changes with the new BA book! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295371-jump-packs-for-ba-characters/#findComment-3781027 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Hard to even begin to 'balance' that though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295371-jump-packs-for-ba-characters/#findComment-3781181 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 No, no and thrice no. I am quite sure that Tycho, Corbulo, Mephiston, Seth, Pharos, etc, have received training with Jump Packs however, they prefer to fight on foot. This is just how they are and is part of the process that makes them unique. Make a list around them, don't lament that they don't fit into your list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295371-jump-packs-for-ba-characters/#findComment-3781186 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaezus Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 But that's like saying if there was an emergency deployment which absolutely required jump packs, tycho, corbulo and mephiston would refuse because of their preference? I want to see our penguins able to fly like the other 99.7% of the chapter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295371-jump-packs-for-ba-characters/#findComment-3781195 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Such an "emergency deployment" would not be the norm, so why should it be covered? Not only that but we are Space Marines. I can see the Imperial Guard having to resort to such measures but a Space Marine commander would find another way - or someone else would be tasked with that theatre of war. By restricting special characters it makes them unique and makes the player have to think about them. If our specials came with every option, hardly anyone would use the stock unnamed characters. They just don't need to do everything. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295371-jump-packs-for-ba-characters/#findComment-3781205 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Most of the BA character's never see the light of day due to poor game design. I still think most named characters should be non-customizable, main issues are bad statlines in general. For example: I'd love to pick up Lemartes, but i think best solution would be to fix JP pricing on DC, not giving him the option of taking it on and off. I'm sure Mephiston will get some type of wings power when the new codex releases. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295371-jump-packs-for-ba-characters/#findComment-3781211 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaezus Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Such an "emergency deployment" would not be the norm, so why should it be covered? Not only that but we are Space Marines. I can see the Imperial Guard having to resort to such measures but a Space Marine commander would find another way - or someone else would be tasked with that theatre of war. By restricting special characters it makes them unique and makes the player have to think about them. If our specials came with every option, hardly anyone would use the stock unnamed characters. They just don't need to do everything. Having every option is something else. Having jump packs is one thing, the bread and butter of BA. Hence our DoA chapter 'trait'. It just makes absolutely no sense to have a few key individuals who can deploy by any means whatsoever, but not jump packs. We are not just space marines. We have a speciality. Most of the BA character's never see the light of day due to poor game design. I still think most named characters should be non-customizable, main issues are bad statlines in general. For example: I'd love to pick up Lemartes, but i think best solution would be to fix JP pricing on DC, not giving him the option of taking it on and off. I'm sure Mephiston will get some type of wings power when the new codex releases.Again with lemartes it's about codex politics, not the unique character of each army which jervis johnson claims was one of the main motivations of 7th ed. Rant aside, even a 5-point reduction in D coy JP would probably see them being fielded more, lemartes too. Personally my fave unit in 40k but too expensive to be competitive. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295371-jump-packs-for-ba-characters/#findComment-3781222 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Such an "emergency deployment" would not be the norm, so why should it be covered? Not only that but we are Space Marines. I can see the Imperial Guard having to resort to such measures but a Space Marine commander would find another way - or someone else would be tasked with that theatre of war.A skilled commander should use the most appropriate tool for the job, not change the job to be ablke to use only a fraction of the available tools. Unless those characters have some inherent inability to use jump packs it makes no sense not to use them on occasion. On the other hand you could make the argument for any piece of wargear not available to characters. Why are there no HQs with TDA and assault cannons/CMLs? While it is all fine and dandy to make a unique character with a certain load out and special rules, I'd much prefer more of a build your own character approach. Take the basic stat line and gear and add special rule a for x points and weapon b for y points etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295371-jump-packs-for-ba-characters/#findComment-3781467 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 The other angle is that of part of a narrative; you are overseeing each named character engage with his chosen set up for this particular task at hand. Whether or not he's used different in the past or future is irrelevant: for this particular mission, (e.g.) Tycho has "opted" to go in on foot. Anyway, I'm out. It's quite apparent that I can't get my point across so enjoy your wish listing :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295371-jump-packs-for-ba-characters/#findComment-3781482 Share on other sites More sharing options...
marine7312000 Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 I absolutely love Jump Packs. But I do NOT want every BA named character to have them. I could see the argument for Tycho to have one, but I like the fact that he doesn't. He's a Captain in a company that is known for closing with the enemy at speed and he CHOOSES not to use a jump pack. If GW intended for the BA to be a jump-pack central army they would have equipped every unit entry with jump packs and removed those entries that couldn't take them. They didn't do so last time and I highly doubt they'll do so next time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295371-jump-packs-for-ba-characters/#findComment-3781494 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain_Sam Posted August 18, 2014 Author Share Posted August 18, 2014 No, no and thrice no. I am quite sure that Tycho, Corbulo, Mephiston, Seth, Pharos, etc, have received training with Jump Packs however, they prefer to fight on foot. This is just how they are and is part of the process that makes them unique. Make a list around them, don't lament that they don't fit into your list. Mephiston uses psychic powers to jump around, I'm not sure I'd say he prefers to fight on foot . Otherwise, good point! The other angle is that of part of a narrative; you are overseeing each named character engage with his chosen set up for this particular task at hand. Whether or not he's used different in the past or future is irrelevant: for this particular mission, (e.g.) Tycho has "opted" to go in on foot. Anyway, I'm out. It's quite apparent that I can't get my point across so enjoy your wish listing I hadn't really thought of the narrative aspect of it. I suppose part of what makes special characters special is their fluff/equipment. If there was a jump special character that was reasonably competitive then it wouldn't be an issue for me. Right now they are all painfully expensive, excluding Lemartes. In that case DC jump packs are the issue. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295371-jump-packs-for-ba-characters/#findComment-3781529 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Mephiston uses psychic powers to jump around, I'm not sure I'd say he prefers to fight on foot . Otherwise, good point!He did that when the codex was released. He cannot do that any more for quite some time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295371-jump-packs-for-ba-characters/#findComment-3781542 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 I want to see our penguins able to fly like the other 99.7% of the chapter. What, like the Terminators, and the Sternguard, and the Tactical Squads, and the Scouts, and the Devastators? The Blood Angels are Codex-adherent. The vast majority of the Chapter fights on foot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295371-jump-packs-for-ba-characters/#findComment-3781553 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain_Sam Posted August 18, 2014 Author Share Posted August 18, 2014 Mephiston uses psychic powers to jump around, I'm not sure I'd say he prefers to fight on foot . Otherwise, good point!He did that when the codex was released. He cannot do that any more for quite some time. Right. He made a fluffy point, I just made a fluffy observation. I know BA lost book powers. Perhaps when the new book comes out Mephiston will fly around the board again. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295371-jump-packs-for-ba-characters/#findComment-3781563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaezus Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 I want to see our penguins able to fly like the other 99.7% of the chapter. What, like the Terminators, and the Sternguard, and the Tactical Squads, and the Scouts, and the Devastators? The Blood Angels are Codex-adherent. The vast majority of the Chapter fights on foot. You're taking my words right out of context. For starters I am talking BA, not any other chapter. Those terminators, sternguard, tacticals and devastators; are they not all jump-pack trained marines? In this chapter? What does it say in the BA codex about BA marines being JP trained? Scouts do not count m'fraid. If you are seriously saying my point is akin to demanding terminator armour be fitted with jump packs, you are missing my point completely. But to support your point, why is it that corbulo, or mephiston cannot use JPs? Where would be the breach in codex by allowing them to do so, considering a sanguinary priest can and so can a librarian? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295371-jump-packs-for-ba-characters/#findComment-3781659 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 They 'can' use jump packs, but they choose not to in the particulat instance that your battle represents. Maybe corbulo was once shot out of the sky while using a jump pack or he feels that a big bulky pack may prevent him reaching injured marines who may be caught in wreckage of a crashed raven or rhino. 'Sorry bud,you're gonna burn and your geneseed will be lost but hey- look at my jump pack!' Maybe meph feels a jump pack makes him a bit too encumbered while in his favoured sword fighting style or something, or just doesnt like to be so conspicuous on a battlefield? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295371-jump-packs-for-ba-characters/#findComment-3782466 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaezus Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Gah. Imagine the pre-battle brief.. Dante: "Right guys, I've been up all night on this one and trust me you're gonna love it. To start with.." (goes into a fully detailed 20-minute briefing, addressing two full companies)..."but the final and most important part is this: corbs, you take your men and land here. Then use your packs to get here under cover of smoke before...what? What is it corbs?" Corbulo: " Umm...boss...you know I don't like using packs since that time when...well you know when." (unconsciously scratches an old wound on his backside) Dante: "Oh feth yeah...sorry, forgot. Duh. Right sorry guys, the jump is postponed while I find a replacent or another plan. Be back here same time tomorrow." (goes to fetch more candles). The emperor's finest, right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295371-jump-packs-for-ba-characters/#findComment-3783016 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sockwithaticket Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 There's not really a good justification for the current situation beyond the fabled (and laughable) 'game balance'. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295371-jump-packs-for-ba-characters/#findComment-3783066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood & Thunder Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 I always imagined corbulo's excuse was that he would spill the blood In the red grail if he took a jump pack. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295371-jump-packs-for-ba-characters/#findComment-3783089 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Yeah right, if he makes a controlled jump he will spill the blood but not if he is in close combat on foot?! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295371-jump-packs-for-ba-characters/#findComment-3783096 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt. Lacerus Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 I always imagined corbulo's excuse was that he would spill the blood In the red grail if he took a jump pack. Surely some sort of lid could be fitted? Or perhaps I could put forth the idea of a Sippy-Cup version of the Grail, allowing him to fight without worry. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295371-jump-packs-for-ba-characters/#findComment-3783428 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orblivion Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 I always imagined corbulo's excuse was that he would spill the blood In the red grail if he took a jump pack. Surely some sort of lid could be fitted? Or perhaps I could put forth the idea of a Sippy-Cup version of the Grail, allowing him to fight without worry. I submit the idea that they only put the blood in the Red Grail for the initiation ritual, and it is otherwise stored in something else while Corbulo is away from Baal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295371-jump-packs-for-ba-characters/#findComment-3783520 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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