Long Fangs

[Sohail187]

Morning all :)

 

I am very curious to know your feed back on our precious long fangs. Now reading posts over the last few weeks I have seem the type of long fang squads people take. Mixed with PC / LC / ML 2 squads. However I was curious to know how often you run your LF squads. Do you take them always? back in the last edition when rocket launchers could blow vehicles up I took 2 squads always!!!! I even used to add x2 LF squads on my army list creator before I even added my HQ. Today or since the new codex I just don't see the fit. I tried to run a squad of 6 LF's the other day 4 LC and 2 guys to soak wounds, I just find the unit so ineffective. 3 hits average out of the 3 may be 1-2 pens or 1 glance and then cover saves come into play.

 

Also when i do run my LF unit, something like 1 wave serphant gets rid of 50% of the unit. 

 

Whats your thought on Long fangs today? and do you always run the unit?  

[Leif Bearclaw]

I've never been a massive fan tbh, always seemed very vulnerable for what you pay. Killing 6 PA Marines is not a difficult proposition. I did use them for a time in 6th, thanks to the hull point nerfing tanks took. These days however, especially as they've got more expensive but less useful (fore control was so much better than split fire), I can't see me taking them all that often.

[Sohail187]

Its hard to not take something you have so heavily depended on in 6th :( I thought it would be the case that its not worth taking them.

[jamsight]

Alway take them, 3 plasma cannons and two las cannons ;) crowning acheivement killing 3 deathwing terminators in CC got to love counter attack.  still digesting the current codex so not sure how they are going to look.

[skeletoro]

I have generally taken 1-2 packs about half the time, with mixed results. Not uncommonly, they die pretty quick. I think in the future i'll have to field them in a fortification or not at all.

[Sohail187]

that might not be a bad idea!!! A BUNKER!!! never though of that however then you are limited with your fire ark.

[Baulder]

if you put them in the imperial bunker they can all fire out and you're good to go. Maybe put a void shield on if you want to piss the other person off

EDIT: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293239-sw-and-fortifications/?hl=%2Bfortifications&do=findComment&comment=3736060

The possibilities were discussed in a bit more detail above.

[Jaarl Stormfang]

I think a small squad with perhaps 3 plasma cannons is something I'll be taking. Probably 1 meat shield + the ancient to catch bullets. Plasma cannons are always useful, and it's a cheap way to get a few of them.

[Sohail187]

if you want 3 plasma cannons is it not cheaper to get the predator that shoots 3 plasma shots from the main turret and give it ignore cover?

[DanPesci]

Need to check over the points, but think my old use of heavy bolter long fangs may come back in. They seem to draw less firepower than other builds as people arent as worries about H.bolters as other weapons, yet 15 S5 shots a turn is still a pretty good whack of firepower to put out. And you'll still be able to glance some light transports to death with a few lucky sixes

 

Missle launchers just dont seem to cut it as much these days due to them not blowing up vehicles (and do they now not cost more??)

 

...Maybe go  for 4xH.Bolters and 1xPlasma cannon for some good all round infantry killing

 

 

 

 

if you want 3 plasma cannons is it not cheaper to get the predator that shoots 3 plasma shots from the main turret and give it ignore cover?

 

This is a thing?? ACE!

[MeatGrinder]

Im still building in 3 squads into my lists, 2 ML and 1 HB squad. Unfortunately I havent had a chance to test out the book, Im just building lists based on my impression of 7th. Personally I find that weight of fire is going to be strong this edition, so Its likely my ML squads will be cut in favor of one of the new fliers or more Thunderwolves. The HBs will be staying, most likely but I used to run them with logan for relentless, so Im not sure how theyll fit in as a static unit. 15 s5 shots is nothing to be sniffed at, even at their increased points cost. 

[Oz of the North]

I tried this tactic recently of putting a squad of 5 heavy bolters in a drop pod with 2 lvl 2 rune priests in terminator armor. One having divination and the other having tempestus. This unit did quite well managing to take out a bloodthirster with only losing the ancient and 2 heavy bolters. 

[Hear da Lamentation]

OK well the question following this thread (from a massive fan of  Long Fangs who has also started finding them pretty vulnerable now) is what are the best heavy options if NOT long fangs?  Obviously there is predator TLLC LC sponsons - that is 3 shot a round compared to LF 4.  It seems to me with the new codex, we still need some volume of good firepower at the back field.

 

HDL

 

(P.S. if that is a thread hijack I apologise.  I think there are very good points on this thread why LF are too vulnerable now - so this seemed the natural next question)

[MalachiOfRuss]

I think they've taken a hit.  I've been running a squad of 2 LC and 3 ML - it's only 5 points more with this codex, but they are so much easier to kill.  As people have mentioned, there's a lot of stuff out there that can take out 5 or 6 PA models.  What did get a big boost was a Predator (IMO).  I ran an all LC Pred for 140 points last game and it soaked up a ton of fire, especially since it was behind an Aegis line.  Front Armor 13 with a 4+ cover save is not trivial to get rid of.

 

I think Long Fangs still have their place and their use but, much like a few things from the old codex, they're not a "no brainer" or "auto take" anymore.

[Leif Bearclaw]

OK well the question following this thread (from a massive fan of  Long Fangs who has also started finding them pretty vulnerable now) is what are the best heavy options if NOT long fangs?  Obviously there is predator TLLC LC sponsons - that is 3 shot a round compared to LF 4.  It seems to me with the new codex, we still need some volume of good firepower at the back field.

 

HDL

 

(P.S. if that is a thread hijack I apologise.  I think there are very good points on this thread why LF are too vulnerable now - so this seemed the natural next question)

I'm leaning away from long range heavy support right now, especially given how bad the standard 'anti tank' gear (ML and LC) have become at armour hunting in 7th. Better to spend points on getting close (so Pods, WG bikers, TWC, flyers and maybe Land Raiders), as all out special stuff is either assault based or 24' range max, get in close and use helfrost and melta to ruin the enemy's day, then assault whatever's left. Or go FW with Sicarans, Scorpios and Predator Executioners (if you can get away with it in your meta of course).

[Valor]

I think they've taken a hit. I've been running a squad of 2 LC and 3 ML - it's only 5 points more with this codex, but they are so much easier to kill. As people have mentioned, there's a lot of stuff out there that can take out 5 or 6 PA models. What did get a big boost was a Predator (IMO). I ran an all LC Pred for 140 points last game and it soaked up a ton of fire, especially since it was behind an Aegis line. Front Armor 13 with a 4+ cover save is not trivial to get rid of.

 

I think Long Fangs still have their place and their use but, much like a few things from the old codex, they're not a "no brainer" or "auto take" anymore.

Just curious, but why are they easier to kill now? Ruins still give a 4+ cover save, you can still put one in TDA for a 2+.

[Baulder]

I've always found that it is my armour save that is the issue. Mass DE/necron fire has always been a problem. Suppose for me preds may be more durable, but I think I'll most likely run 4ML+1LC (1/2 squads with flakk). I like the idea of the LC being my spitfire model and with two units I can always go for both LCs picking the same target given me 4/2/4 on 3 targets. But tbh I've not tried them much recently. 

 

As Leif suggested, I've also moved further away from static ranged units. With maelstrom favouring an aggressive play style and our CC units getting cheaper/better gear I think I prefer the in-your-face method. Dropping melta units to deal with tanks, combi-plasma WGTDA to threaten most things. Plus I also found that a tempestus RP on a bike with the durfast helm was able to snipe a vehicle with lightning (not a bad combo imo).

[Reede]

Personally I'm still a giant fan of Long Fangs. They may have taken a bit of a nerf (Split fire is just freaking annoying..., but what are you going to do), but it's still some strong firepower for what I would still consider a low(er) cost.

 

I normally always take at least one Heavy Bolter squad (been maxing them at 3HB's just because that's all I have painted so far) but they can normally spit out some death, even against Space Marines. Never, ever, underestimate the crushing weight of lots of wounds. They can only make so many 3+ saves (and 2+ saves for that matter).

 

Just my last game my 2ML, 2LC squad ended up being my VIP. While they didn't do incredibly, in the moments that it mattered, they really came through. Multiple times through the game I had the Missile Launchers shake up the Vindicators that my army was facing down, giving me a good turn of safe movement to advance on them without taking that painful blast. Even during that, I had a Blood Angels Dreadnought drop down and try to wipe out my Heavy Bolter squad. By pure luck they made all of their cover saves and the next turn the Tank Hunter squad blew it up in a round of shooting, effectively saving their brother's pelts from the fire.

 

I think people just have the unfortunate perception that because they got nerfed their no longer good and it's just not true. Before they were utterly amazing, super cheap and powerful, now they've been more brought in line points-wise to make them a strong choice, but not the obvious auto-include. Still they are quite good at what their role is, and that's support. They may not be the guys that save the day (though that most certainly happens from time to time) but they'll be there, in the back, waiting, watching, and spitting death towards any that would harm their brothers.

[Haakon_Stormbrow]

1st heavy unit of long fangs should be run with 5 plasma cannons, upgrade the long fang ancient to a wg give him TDA and SS and attach onto the squad a rune priest with re-roll spell or a wolf priest with preferred enemy infantry and then re-roll the gets hot. 

plasmas cost the same as missile launchers now, their only weakness is they can hurt av 14.

a rune priest helps against all targets, a wolf priest makes them unit destroyers, re-rolling 1 to hit and wound against 90% of things.

Ulrik would be the best choice to back this unit up.

 

2nd unit should be 1 lascannon and 4 missile launchers with the TDAWG with SS leader

this squad has the 1 las who can split fire from the group while the rest assist glancing heavy armour or take out squads of infantry like WG from last edition

 

3rd heavy i'd recommend as a storm fang. that lance weapon will get rid of the annoying AV13/14 on the field for you.

this unit saves the need for flak missiles on the 2nd long fang unit, the lance destroys anything the other 2 units can't take out.

use the first 2 units to remove threats to your flyer, then use this to remove those pesky land raiders and the like.

[MalachiOfRuss]

 

Just curious, but why are they easier to kill now? Ruins still give a 4+ cover save, you can still put one in TDA for a 2+.

 

 

Prevalence of lots of high strength shooting: Eldar Wave Serpents, Tau Broadsides with Missiles, Centurions with Grav Cannons.  There are so many more units that can put out a bunch of S6 or S7 shots that small units of 3+ armor save go away pretty quickly.

[Wispy]

I've never used long fangs when they're excellent and certainly won't be going to them now that they're not quite as strong.

 

I always prefer mobility, something Longfangs certainly do not have. I've always accomplished what others used them for with a Vindicator and a pair of speeders.

[Fedorarogue]

Vindicators do good work though I have noticed that they pull way more fire than Longfangs almost ever will. They are just too much death in a box for the enemy to ignore them. Longfangs sit far enough back and do still have a decent amount of stuff that they can do that really gives them a place in about any list. Plop them on a Malestrom object of near one and have them support the rest of the army without being in direct line of everything the enemy has.

[Wispy]

Vindicators do good work though I have noticed that they pull way more fire than Longfangs almost ever will. They are just too much death in a box for the enemy to ignore them. Longfangs sit far enough back and do still have a decent amount of stuff that they can do that really gives them a place in about any list. Plop them on a Malestrom object of near one and have them support the rest of the army without being in direct line of everything the enemy has.

 

Well, that's the other reason why I prefer a vindicator to long fangs: I like to fill my army with lots of units that can be desribed as too much death in the box for the enemy to ignore them.' If they're focusing on the vindicator, they're not focusing on the drop podded Bjorn and his Brethren or the Thunderwolf cavalry or the Stormwolf. Force some analysis paralysis while also having some redundancy with several different kinds of Star Destroyers. 

[Jaarl Stormfang]

if you want 3 plasma cannons is it not cheaper to get the predator that shoots 3 plasma shots from the main turret and give it ignore cover?

 

Say what? Is there a new predator I don't know about? Even so, 3 PC Long fangs plus an ancient is 105 points. I think that's cheap.

 

 

I used to love the idea of Heavy bolter squads back when they were 20pts a model. 25pts a model is a pretty serious increase in price, particularly when a PC is down to 30pts a model.

[Brother Amarel]

 

if you want 3 plasma cannons is it not cheaper to get the predator that shoots 3 plasma shots from the main turret and give it ignore cover?

 

Say what? Is there a new predator I don't know about? Even so, 3 PC Long fangs plus an ancient is 105 points. I think that's cheap.

 

 

I used to love the idea of Heavy bolter squads back when they were 20pts a model. 25pts a model is a pretty serious increase in price, particularly when a PC is down to 30pts a model.

 

 

Forgeworld. 

 

Although Plasma mounted on vehicles is not ideal (too much chance of failing the Gets Hot roll).