Long Fangs

[Valerian]

What is the status of escalation and fortifications, these days? Are the data slates in escalation the most up to date rules for fortification options in 7th? Just wondering whether getting a strongpoint or something to hide some Long Fangs and/or woof scouts would be likely to lead to 'ohm, we're not playing escalation, we're just playing 40k.'

 

Stronghold Assault is the most current for Fortification rules.  In the Fortifications paragraph on page 119 of The Rules, it refers players to Stronghold Assault.  You are free to use the Fortification data-sheets from Stronghold Assault in 'normal' games of 40k, without having to use any of the other optional/advanced rules within.

 

V

[Lord Ragnarok]

What is the status of escalation and fortifications, these days? Are the data slates in escalation the most up to date rules for fortification options in 7th? Just wondering whether getting a strongpoint or something to hide some Long Fangs and/or woof scouts would be likely to lead to 'ohm, we're not playing escalation, we're just playing 40k.'

i'd love to stick my LF's behind a firestorm redoubt...but the pts cost

That's the only fortification that is visually appealing to me. 

[Sohail187]

Keep in mind you want to try and be as cost effective as possible. Now we are having to spend an additional 100+ points to keep them safe, i feel at this point.... 250+ points plus i might as well take something else no?

[Inquisitor Kravin]

Sorry if this diverts the thread into a rules dispute but it is pertinent to the question of how to run Long Fangs.

 

I'm not convinced that the claimed benefits of Preferred Enemy for Plasma Cannons will stand up to challenge. You definitely get the re-roll on ones to wound. What I'm not sure about is re-rolling for Gets Hot! or Blast scatter. Preferred Enemy isn't "re-roll To Hit", it's "re-roll 1s To Hit". It would be a lot better if they just stated in Gets Hot! that the roll for Blast Weapons is a To Hit roll but they don't. The bit about Twin Linked and BS7 implies the intention would stretch to Preferred Enemy but I don't think it's concrete.

 

Even if we assume that the above bit is correct then it would only be if you rolled a 1 for the Gets Hot roll that you would actually be eligible for a re-roll.

[Haakon_Stormbrow]

as said many times it is quite clear in the get's hot rules section of your codex that re-rolls on the to hit are applied to the rolling get hot rolls for blast weapons.

if you don't believe me go read page 164 of the small rulebook .

It states if the model has the ability to re-roll it's to hit.

preferred enemy states a model get's to re-roll it's failed to hit and to wound results of 1

clearly they synergize.

 

 

therefor on a plasma cannon you can re-roll the get's hot, you can also re-roll the 1's on the scatter if you want it to scatter further, and you can re-roll the 1's to wound.

 

that means your long fangs re-roll gets hot and re-roll to wound which also means in a plasma cannon unit the Wolf priest is better then the Rune priest.

[Pariah Mk.231]

So, what would you folks take to support a drop pod force besides LFs?

Land speeders, dreads in pods, flyers, skyclaws with meltas, terminators with combi-weapons, allied flyers, allied deepstriking Blood Angels land raiders and podded dreads with grapples (drag a tank into combat the turn you land), allied centurions in a pod from our fast attack section, allied death company in a pod loaded up with fists.

 

Just a small selection.

[Inquisitor Kravin]

as said many times it is quite clear in the get's hot rules section of your codex that re-rolls on the to hit are applied to the rolling get hot rolls for blast weapons.

if you don't believe me go read page 164 of the small rulebook .

It states if the model has the ability to re-roll it's to hit.

preferred enemy states a model get's to re-roll it's failed to hit and to wound results of 1

clearly they synergize.

 

 

therefor on a plasma cannon you can re-roll the get's hot, you can also re-roll the 1's on the scatter if you want it to scatter further, and you can re-roll the 1's to wound.

 

that means your long fangs re-roll gets hot and re-roll to wound which also means in a plasma cannon unit the Wolf priest is better then the Rune priest.

Okay.

 

I did read the rulebook carefully before posing my question and just saying you've said something many times doesn't necessarily make it true. I agree that you re-roll 1s to wound. I agree that you almost certainly re-roll Gets Hot! though I've seen the way people can argue over rules and I can see a chink in the armour of the argument. 

 

For scatter I can see the argument for re-rolling 1s for distance but I don't think you get to re-roll any distance.

 

It certainly does seem like Wolf Priests and Plasma Cannon Long Fangs are the new super best friends.

 

 

[DanPesci]

aye, the only reason i could see to take a rune priest over a wolf priest with a plasma cannon squad, is that prescience, as its allowing you to reroll any misses, rather than just rerolling 1s to miss, would allow you to reroll the scatter result no matter what it was (this used to be the case, not 100% on whether or not it still is)

 

However, in a squad of 5 BS4 plasma cannons, you are going to have to have very bad luck on the scatter dice to totally miss with that many blasts that this would make a serious difference.

 

So aye, wolf priest with pref enemy (infantry) in a single squad, or if taking multiple sit back units...ulrik to give pref enemy everything to a bubble of support fire.

 

 

On another related note, really liking the look/idea of the predator executioner, flank it with two rhinos, give it heavy bolters, and for 150pts you have a very nice effective anti infantry platform going forward (yes it can be one shotted, but AV13 on the front is nothing to be sniffed at). Think it would synergise well with the faster, in your face builds i think we'll be seeing from this new dex.

[Sohail187]

aye, the only reason i could see to take a rune priest over a wolf priest with a plasma cannon squad, is that prescience, as its allowing you to reroll any misses, rather than just rerolling 1s to miss, would allow you to reroll the scatter result no matter what it was (this used to be the case, not 100% on whether or not it still is)

 

However, in a squad of 5 BS4 plasma cannons, you are going to have to have very bad luck on the scatter dice to totally miss with that many blasts that this would make a serious difference.

 

So aye, wolf priest with pref enemy (infantry) in a single squad, or if taking multiple sit back units...ulrik to give pref enemy everything to a bubble of support fire.

 

 

On another related note, really liking the look/idea of the predator executioner, flank it with two rhinos, give it heavy bolters, and for 150pts you have a very nice effective anti infantry platform going forward (yes it can be one shotted, but AV13 on the front is nothing to be sniffed at). Think it would synergise well with the faster, in your face builds i think we'll be seeing from this new dex.

ooo sooo tempted to buy a predator. Never saw the need for one, but i am starting to think it is a better choice for some fire support than my long fangs. Luckily i brought a space marine stormraven and the plasma cannons make a perfect plasma weapon for the predator turret.

[DanPesci]

yeah, definately thinking of kitbashing a twin plasma cannon turret rather than going down the forgeworld route

 

so much painting/modelling to do...so little time :(

[Sohail187]

i some times dream.... that my garden gnomes come to life, and gather an army to assemble paint and cut out perfect foam trays for my entire collection and will have it ready for my by the time i wake up for work!! but thats just a dream :(

[Haakon_Stormbrow]

would ulrik's bubble also apply to a vehicle like the predator? 

[Baulder]

should think so as it says units with 6". A vehicle is a unit so you're OK there I think

[Haakon_Stormbrow]

wouldn't that mean that an amazing heavy choice would be:

3 Predator Executioners with HB sponsons

1 Ulrik

1 Iron Priest with 4 cyberwolves and 5 servitors, 2 with Plasma Cannon

an Aegis defence Line with a lascannon turret

 

Iron priest and ulrik look after the gun

iron priest heels up those 9 hull points

with 11 plasma cannons, a lascannon and 6 heavy blotters you will munch pretty much anything.

 

Cost for this is around 900 points but you could get a cheap version for 750 if you don't give the iron priest a unit.

 

you could also swap 1 executioner for an annihilator if you want some extra anti-AV14.

 

 

So to keep this on topic.....

a 6 man unit with 5 long fangs with plasma cannons and a WG with storm shield cost 180 so 3 for 540

vs

3 Predator Exterminators with Heavy Bolter Sponsons and Defence Line for 500

 

which is better?

which is harder to kill?

which has the better damage capability?

[Haakon_Stormbrow]

i some times dream.... that my garden gnomes come to life, and gather an army to assemble paint and cut out perfect foam trays for my entire collection and will have it ready for my by the time i wake up for work!! but thats just a dream

I have the same problem, but another problem is my wallet, and how to best buy all the long fangs i want without breaking the bank, if i want to run 2 squads of plasmas i need 4 boxes of long fangs :(

[Baulder]

i some times dream.... that my garden gnomes come to life, and gather an army to assemble paint and cut out perfect foam trays for my entire collection and will have it ready for my by the time i wake up for work!! but thats just a dream

I have the same problem, but another problem is my wallet, and how to best buy all the long fangs i want without breaking the bank, if i want to run 2 squads of plasmas i need 4 boxes of long fangs

You've got a couple of options there. First you could buy 4 boxes and ebay all the bits you dont need. You'd be surprised how much you'd make back especially if you sell each heavy weapon separately. But that can be time consuming and you need to post stuff to folks. Alternatively you can opt for the buyer route and get 2 boxes of longfangs and then buy the extra plasmas from a bitz site or ebay and then sell the spare heavy weapons to make some money back. Final option would be to buy two boxes and then either go to the trade section on dakka or your local store and trade the spare heavy weapons for extra plasmas. Still you wont be able to get over the start-up cost of two boxes, but if you are clever with your spares you can get the cost of your miniatures down a fair bit.

[Haakon_Stormbrow]

all those ways take so much effort for 2 squads, why can't gw make things easy and sell plastic debs in lots of 2, then i could buy 5 blisters and be done :(

[Sohail187]

Following on from this thread... i told myself that i would try long fangs *again* in hope they would prove my wrong and finally do something!! I PRAYED HARD for them to do something and not just die. Took 2 squads,  squad 1, 4 las cannons 2 standard guys // squad 2 3 plasma cannons 1 las cannon and 2 standard guys.

 

Now they were on a skyshield landing pad with the barriers raised so they got a 4++ invulnerable. I also had a allied librarian who managed to get shrouding so all units in 6" get shrouded special rule. On top of the skyshield they had a 2++.  Turn 1.... I used 5 las cannons shots to get rid of a tau tank hammerhead and killed 1 riptide turn 1. Now he had 2 units of broadsides with high yield rocket pods and the sms rocket pods (basically many dice)  Each broadside unit killed a long fang unit entirely. Now i know that broadside pump out a ridiculous amount of shots...I think my long fang foam tray is going to be moving to the bottom of the box!

[Freman Bloodglaive]

With putting a Wolf Priest with a Long Fang squad, doesn't that basically double the cost of the squad? Wouldn't it be more efficient to just buy another squad of Long Fangs and suck up any casualties?

 

My views haven't changed since 5th. 40k is a numbers game where the more dice you roll, the better your chance of victory. Part of that is putting as many effective boots on the ground as possible.

[DanPesci]

Played a game on saturday, where i took some fangs with 5x Plasma Cannons, the leader in TDA with SS, and a wolf priest (pref enemy). I also proxied in a predator executioner.

 

Both units performed exceptionally well, getting to reroll the gets hot with the fangs made a difference, as i rolled several ones in the three turns the game lasted.

 

The executioner pattern pred is also very good, with the ignores cover special rule you can buy, its deadly, I was facing a pretty entrenched marine army on multiple floors of a big ruin, and it killed 11 marines in its first turn (whilst wounding a librarian).

 

The massed plasma wasnt too bad against vehicles either, caused some glancing hits on a couple of vindicators which certainly helped. Will try put up a full battle report this afternoon.

[DanPesci]

With putting a Wolf Priest with a Long Fang squad, doesn't that basically double the cost of the squad? Wouldn't it be more efficient to just buy another squad of Long Fangs and suck up any casualties?

 

My views haven't changed since 5th. 40k is a numbers game where the more dice you roll, the better your chance of victory. Part of that is putting as many effective boots on the ground as possible.

 

It does double the cost of the squad, but then if that squad is more effective at wounding, no longer has to fear getting hot, nad has 6+ fnp, it may well be a good buff. Espeically as taking the wolf priest...he doesnt have to join that unit every game. Plus, using the game i played this sat as an example, id already used up all 3 heavy slots, so used my spare points to add effectiveness to an existing unit...as i physically couldnt fit more guys in. 

[Jaarl Stormfang]

Following on from this thread... i told myself that i would try long fangs *again* in hope they would prove my wrong and finally do something!! I PRAYED HARD for them to do something and not just die. Took 2 squads,  squad 1, 4 las cannons 2 standard guys // squad 2 3 plasma cannons 1 las cannon and 2 standard guys.

 

Now they were on a skyshield landing pad with the barriers raised so they got a 4++ invulnerable. I also had a allied librarian who managed to get shrouding so all units in 6" get shrouded special rule. On top of the skyshield they had a 2++.  Turn 1.... I used 5 las cannons shots to get rid of a tau tank hammerhead and killed 1 riptide turn 1. Now he had 2 units of broadsides with high yield rocket pods and the sms rocket pods (basically many dice)  Each broadside unit killed a long fang unit entirely. Now i know that broadside pump out a ridiculous amount of shots...I think my long fang foam tray is going to be moving to the bottom of the box!

 

You must have got insanely unlucky. It takes an average of 72 wounds to kill 12 models with a 2+ save. That's about a hundred hits, depending on weapon strength, and hundreds of shots.

 

I wouldn't give up on Long fangs just because of that experience.

 

Plus you killed a hammerhead and a riptide with them? Sounds like the Long Fangs did very well for you!

[Sohail187]

Thats is once pricey unit...might think of putting a wg battle leader with tda stormshield urgh so many points :D

[Haakon_Stormbrow]

you need to way up your options:

3 predator exterminators has only 9 wounds (3 wounds if they roll well on penetrating hits) but ignores anything below strength 7 on its front facing.

18 long fangs with TDAWG+SS in each has 18 wounds (double) but is susceptible to any weapon strength.

the tanks need a iron priest to heal

the men need a wolf priest to heal

a wolf priest benefits both in firing.

so really a 3 tank heavy choice needs an iron priest mandatory and should be considered a tax when compared to the long fangs.

 

in most cases it depends who you verse.

and tau are the best snooty force in the game so are bad examples.

really you need to try each type 3 times to see how they go.....

vs tau

vs nids

vs marines (standard) or chaos

 

that will show you how they perform.

[Sohail187]

ok playing 1850 sunday vs white scars... (regular opponent of mine) will give the long fangs one more outing! However this time I will try the upgraded WG in termie armor and take his free storm shield yes sir! (watch this space cause if this fails... ull see a link to ebay for my long fangs!)