Gkovacs Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 hi guys so brand new to the Heresy and want to do Sons of Horus and have this list to try and kick things off!!! HQ Praetor Artificer Armour Digital Lasers Iron Halo Master Crafted Plasma Pistol Paragon Blade TROOPS Legion Tactical Squad x10 Legion Tactical Squad x10 ELITES Contemptor Mortis Dreadnought Two Kheres Assault Cannons FAST ATTACK Reaver Assault Squad Sarge - Artificer Armour Power Fist Plasma Pistol Troops - 2x Chainaxe Power Weapon HEAVY SUPPORT Legion Vindicator 987 Points thoughts??? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295398-brand-new-sons-of-horus-player-1000-point-starter-list/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonstalker Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Welcome to the B&C, and welcome to the Heresy! First off, I have to ask: What is your specific definition of starter list? Are you just looking for something that will get you started in the HH and will grow well into a larger list (at the cost of not being quite as good when small), or are you looking for something that works well at 1000 points but may not (or may) have exactly the right things you want in a larger list? Second: How optimal are you looking to make your list? Point by point: Your Praetor is essentially 20% of your list at this points level - I would consider him over geared even in a 2k point list (Plasma Pistols are hardly ever worth the points, and you're paying the points to master craft on top of that...). With no transport, it's going to take quite a bit of effort to get him into melee. If you already know you will want to go with a specific RoW later and just want to only buy one HQ ever, then hey, fine, but your best choice at this level is a Centurion with a Consul upgrade that helps your list out. Not much to say about the Contemptor-Mortis with twin Kheres, it's a strong all-around choice that can act as anti-infantry, anti-vehicle, and anti-air. Not the best at any three of those, but it's a good catch-all when you're limited on points. Tacticals benefit from 3 things - the first is taking more of them in a squad. Like the majority of units in 30k, they get a lower price for additional guys in a squad than you pay for the guys in the base squad. Taking advantage of this and buying more, cheap guys to drive the overall price per guy in the squad down is good. The second is legion vexillas. Without ATSKNF, Legion marines are distinctly vulnerable to morale failures. You've forgotten to get any for your marines. And the third is Apothecaries - they can be really hard to afford at this points level, but if you can squeeze them in they're a great boost to your squad's durability and will help them get across the field. I don't really like Reavers as footsloggers. As footslogging bolter holders, they're pretty much just overpriced tacticals. As footslogging melee troops, they won't get into melee fast enough to really do any good. For fewer points, you could have a squad of terminators, who come with 2+ saves, 5+ invuls (more durability), combibolters (more ranged firepower - not saying much), and power weapons all around (fewer attacks overall, but ignoring armor more than counteracts that when we're talking about a purely MEQ/TEQ environment). And both of them walking into melee. The Vindi is... alright. Depending on where you take your list, you may regret going with the vindi later - it's a somewhat inefficient use of the slot, since you can't take Vindis in squadrons, and heavy support usually has a lot of competition for what you can take and you often want to put a lot of your points there. Personally, I have never had good luck with vindicators. In my last few games I have been using 2x Predators with Pred Autocannons and Lascannon Sponsons, backed up by a WW Scorpius, and it has worked very well. The Scorpius, in particular, never fails to kill several times its points, especially when paired with nuncio voxii. If you just want something good all around that will transition well into almost every list, then grab a Sicaran. They've got a brutal amount of firepower, good mobility, and a good armor layout. As things go, at this points level, the armor on the Vindi is strong enough and the blast template is scary enough that it's an alright choice. I think they are better choices, but it probably comes down to preference. Unfortunately, at 1k points there is not a lot of wiggle room to really get the flavor of a legion in there. The unique, legion-specific units (like reavers) are just too hard to fit in a lot of times while you are trying to cover all your minimum force org reqs and anti-infantry/anti-armor/anti air bases at the same time. I can see you want something fairly true-to-fluff (hence the Vindi and Reavers), but I think the Reavers and the Praetor are too expensive for this level. A solid core of tacticals as you troops and a consul that compliments and buffs some part of your list would be a better replacement, IMO. If you spend ~100 points on the Centurion, another 100 on 5 more tacticals for each squad, and then a few points to get vexillas, you should have 150-175ish or so points left to squeeze in another unit after you drop the reavers and Praetor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295398-brand-new-sons-of-horus-player-1000-point-starter-list/#findComment-3781776 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gkovacs Posted August 18, 2014 Author Share Posted August 18, 2014 WOWOWOWOWWO THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR INSIGHT as i said i am very new to the whole Heresy thing and am still considering the list thank you very much for your help i shall go and revise the list and get back to you thanks again Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295398-brand-new-sons-of-horus-player-1000-point-starter-list/#findComment-3781852 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gkovacs Posted August 19, 2014 Author Share Posted August 19, 2014 ok what about this... HQ Centurion Librarian Thunder Hammer Terminator Armour Mastery 2 Troops 10 X Tac Squad Nuncio Vox Vexilla 10 X Tac Squad Nuncio Vox Vexilla 5 x Recon Squad Nuncio Vox All Snipers Recon Armour Camleone Elites Contemptor Mortis Kheres Assault Cannon Heavy Scorpius Whirlwind XACTLY 1000 Points Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295398-brand-new-sons-of-horus-player-1000-point-starter-list/#findComment-3782105 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratil Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 I would drop the TDA on the Libby and go for artificer armour and a refractor field, as it will be cheaper and allow whichever squad he's in to use sweeping advance. I would Probably drop the Thunder hammer to save some points and stick with a Force weapon (probably an axe) as with the Force power you can still instant death HQs, you could then take some melta bombs to deal with vehicles in assault. I think you could also use some more anti-tank, the Scorpius is an awesome model and Str 8 AP 3 barrages make astartes cry, but it's not going to do too much against heavy vehicles usually because it lacks Ordnance. Your scouts are also dedicated anti-infantry so I feel replacing one of them with something a bit more AT orientated might be a good move. You could go for a legion heavy support squad, predator or Sicaran if you can find the points perhaps. The Kheres mortis contemptor can be surprisingly effective at heavy tank killing (because 12 BS 5, Str 6 rending shots will kill anything eventually) but they need to get to midfield to do that, and they will a primary target for your opponents anti-tank weapons. You could also go for something a bit less stand-offish like a jetbike squadron with a multi-melta and melta bombs to flank and kill enemy tanks, or some javelin attack speeders. I am a big fan of the JAS with cyclone missile launchers, multi-melta and 2 hunter killer missiles. Outflank to get side or rear armour shots and unleash rocket meltary hell. You also might want to consider trying to up the number of bodies in your tac squads, they way costing works for most infantry units in HH is that you pay a premium to buy the initial squad, but each additional marine is cheaper (this is to encourage large squads to better represent the scale of battle the legions engaged in - i.e. Huge). This may be an issue in 1000 points so don't worry too much about it, but the cost factor is something to be aware of in list construction. Also 20 man tactical squads are great fun, especially if you can find points for apothecaries! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295398-brand-new-sons-of-horus-player-1000-point-starter-list/#findComment-3782604 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gkovacs Posted August 19, 2014 Author Share Posted August 19, 2014 Thank you for your response +++ Turning the Wolves (1000pts) +++ +++ 1000pt Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List Roster (Age of Darkness)) +++ Selections: Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) Selections: + HQ + * Legion Centurion (Consul, Independent Character, Legiones Astartes) Librarian * Power Armour (Frag and Krak Grenades) Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Psychic Mastery Level 2, Refractor Field + Troops + * Legion Tactical Squad (Fury of the Legion, Legiones Astartes) Legion Tactical Sergeant, 10x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Nuncio-Vox * Legion Tactical Squad (Fury of the Legion, Legiones Astartes) Legion Tactical Sergeant, 10x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Nuncio-Vox + Elites + * Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought (Atomantic Shielding, Helical Targeting Array) Two Kheres Pattern Assault Cannons + Heavy Support + * Legion Sicarian Battle Tank (Rapid Tracking) Auxiliary Drive, Hunter-killer Missile, Lascannons * Legion Whirlwind Scorpius (Rocket Barrage) Hunter-killer Missile + Legion + * Legion Astartes XVI: Sons of Horus Created with BattleScribe (http://www.battlescribe.net) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295398-brand-new-sons-of-horus-player-1000-point-starter-list/#findComment-3783414 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molokai Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Ignore, my error Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295398-brand-new-sons-of-horus-player-1000-point-starter-list/#findComment-3783539 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Brother 92 Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Nice list on the last one - the only thing I would change is dropping the H-K missiles from the Sicaran & Scorpious, they tend to be too much 'luck of the roll' than anything else - plus it saves you a little bit to add a marine to each of those Tac squads (I find more bodies are better than single-shot weapons) - other than that a very solid list with good potential for expanding at 1500-2k. As you expand I'd recommend as a first thing maxing those two Tac squads, adding a third max (20 man) Tac squad and getting Apothecaries for them - then looking at some heavy anti-tank in the form of either Lascannon Mortis-Dreads, HS Squads or Rapier platforms - but that all depends on what theme you have/want for the force - if you're wanting to go down a specific RoW route then you'll need a praetor (or a special character like Maloghurst who allows the RoW whilst being a Centurion) and various other bits & pieces. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295398-brand-new-sons-of-horus-player-1000-point-starter-list/#findComment-3783837 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratil Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Yeah, that new list looks good and easily expandable, plus has some awesome models that are well worth picking up. I would add to Russ Brother 92's idea to drop the HK missiles, I don't generally think they're worth their points except on Javelin speeders. You could use the points to grab artificer armour on both your sergeants to soak up some firepower and help them in melee. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295398-brand-new-sons-of-horus-player-1000-point-starter-list/#findComment-3784101 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gkovacs Posted August 20, 2014 Author Share Posted August 20, 2014 awesome thanks guys will start saving up then.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295398-brand-new-sons-of-horus-player-1000-point-starter-list/#findComment-3784288 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Brother 92 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 awesome thanks guys will start saving up then.... It'll take a while brother - unfortunately this addiction is rather pricey but we love it :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295398-brand-new-sons-of-horus-player-1000-point-starter-list/#findComment-3785280 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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