Please help me complete the Krakendoom list

[Frater Cornelius]

Hey lads, grab a seat by the fire and have a drink to warm the heart!

As some of you know, I am rebuilding my company. This is what I have got:

 

Ulrik

 

2x 10 Grey Hunters w/ 2x Melta, ultragrit, WGPL w/ combi melta in Rhino w/ dozer blade

15 Bloodclaws w/ 2x Flamer, Power Axe, WGPL w/ Power Axe in Stormwolf w/ TLMM (Ulrik goes here)

 

2x Vindicator w/ Siege Shield

 

That runs in at about 1310 points. There may be changes in the general loadout though (for example dropping Bloodclaws in favour of another GH unit).

 

My aim is it to create a high pressure list that capitalizes on turn 2 (where most assaults/rapid fire will take place) and deals with turn 1 by putting very high amount pressure on the opponent, as well as some firepower. Rhinos will speed forward, Vindicators should be able to shoot something turn 1.

I am hoping to make a Wolves Unleashed Detachment to have the Stormwolf come in automatically, but I also would not mind the Champions of Grimnar FOC for the +1WS.

 

Here is my thing. What can I get to get that fast moving theme running and pressure the opponent. I was thinking about Swiftclaws, Skyclaws and Wolf Guard (Jump Pack and Bike variants) and then attaching Wolf Priests (possibly Rune Priests) to them with the equivalent upgrades to keep up. However, I do not have much experience with Bike or JP armies, so I am asking for your advice.

Keep in mind, I am aiming for a competitive environment where the opponents vary a lot.

 

Thanks very much for any input and help ye'self for another pint if needed!

[Leif Bearclaw]

Are you trying to build to a particular points goal? Because if you're aiming for 1500 there's no much wiggle room as you're laready at 1310.

I wouldn't bother with the Swift/Skyclaws. The bikers are so overshaowed by WG bikers since they lost their additional ccw and Skyclaws are just too flimsy imo.

One idea to consider for a 'pressure' unit is Landspeeders. Geared up with typhoons or multi meltas they are a great distraction unit, forcing your opponent to make hard choices about what to target. If he hits the speeders, all you heavier stuff takes less fire, but if the speeders are ignored, they have more than enough firepower to get their points back. It's practically a win-win for you .

[Frater Cornelius]

I am aiming for 1850, forgot to mention that. Most tourneys in Germany are held at 1750-1850 so having a 1850 blue print is very good.

 

Last speeders is something I never actually considered. Good call. It sorta fits the Krakendoom theme as well, some sort of mini dragon boats.

However, this means one less FA slot and I am not sure if I want to deal with the increased costs of WG Bikers/Jumpers as opposed to claws.

[Emperors Immortals]

I'm also thinking of a Krakendoom theme to rebuild my army!

 

I've used SM, BA, CSM, IH and WS bikers and find that they are always worth taking, WG bikers look like a solid choice to hit infantry or plasma gun elites on the fly, the lack of attack bijeverjed me at first but there are just so many options for melts in the SW book its just not a concern.

 

Furstbthoughts are either shields and claws OR shields and combos, I've found trying to cover all options just results in confused tactics in the field, try to decide if you want a fast melee uniut to tie up enemy in CC because I swift claws would be better IMO.

 

Personally I'm aiming for 2shields a hammer and 2 plasmas to hit foot termies and the odd light tank. Not too expensive and will do its job well.

[Leif Bearclaw]

It's a tad more even for Jump Packs, but for bikers there is really much contest unfortunately, For only 5 points more than a Swiftclaw, the WG get additional WS, BS, LD and has the peak combat output of a swifclaw (3 attacks when charging) as his baseline combat potential.

[Frater Cornelius]

25 a model ain't bad considering how much you can customize them. But in the current setup I have 540 points left. A LS typhoon costs 75 points at least. I would consider 3x1 or 2x2 LS with MM or HF, taking up around 200-240 points by themselves. What's left, a big WG Bike unit? Meh. A few small ones? I could live with that. But WG are massive point sicks and it's easy to get lost. I first need a general idea what is actually missing in my current list.

 

Stormwolf covers AA and AT needs fairly well. Vindicators cover your TEQ and AV needs. GH can blow up everything from tanks to infantry with ranged and melee. What I feel is missing is anti-horde (LS with HF can do the trick but it is damn fragile), fast moving units capable of surgical removal (WG bikes are a solid idea), but most importantly turn 1 pressure. Not necessarily kill potential but pressure. I have 3 drop pods standing over here, so maybe that is worth considering in some way, something like dropping the Rhinos and have the GH ride in pods. I do not like that option very much because after the first deployment they rapidly lose value in maelstrom due to lack of mobility.

 

What's your take on what's missing?

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Wolf guard bikes look really good to me right now. The 5 point up charge for the better stats is more than worth it Imo. A unit of 6 only runs you 150 with no up grades and honestly the only upgrade I am considering is a power sword on the leader in case of challenges. They can clean up the hordes.

 

Also a unit I have found good against hordes is my multimelta heavy flamer land speeder. Though the cheaper and higher anti horde version is the heavy bolter heavy flamer build.

 

For me the kit on your greyhunters looks like the perfect pod unit. Another Hugh pressure pod unit would be one of the close combat dreads.

 

Just some thoughts hope they were helpful

[Frater Cornelius]

Here is what I current have:

 

Wolf Lord

• TWM, SS, Runic armour, Melta bombs, 2x Fenrisian Wolf (no relics or specials yet becaue I am not sure which detachment)

 

9 GH + 1 WGPL

• 2x Melta, 1 combi-Melta, melta bombs

• Rhino w/ dozer blade

9 GH + 1 WGPL

• 2x Melta, 1 combi-Melta, melta bombs

• Rhino w/ dozer blade

 

9 GH + 1 WGPL

• 2x Flamer, 1 combi-Flamer, melta bombs

• Stormwolf w/ TLMM

 

Land Speeder

• HB + Typhoon

Land Speeder

• HB + Typhoon

 

3 TWC

• 3x SS, 3x melta bombs

 

Vindicator

• Siege Shield

Vindicator

• Siege Shield

 

This sums up at 1738 points. 112 points to go. Unfortunately, this looks like a regular BRB detachment. There is no space at all to cram in 2 elites to get the Champion of Fenris detachment going.

 

Here is a thought though: drop the Flamer GH and buy some PAWG who then take the Stormwolf as a dedicated. And then buy a dread, possibly even the blizzard dread. Finally, the Wolf Lord would get the ap2 +1s sword and the rerolls to hit in melee.

 

If that fails, I'll stay with the regular detachment and simply add a 4th TWC to the unit and buy Stormbolters for the Vindicators. The Wolf Lord would then get the Wulfen Stone and a weapon, I am torn between a Thunderhammer and the ap3 +1s Helfrost sword to make use of his I5.

 

Thoughts?

[Frater Cornelius]

Bump for great justice and a way to make this work with the Champions of Grimnar FOC (and whether it is worth it).

[Spacefrisian]

Ignore those naysayers when it comes Skyclaws, Maelstrom is made for fast units and Skyclaws are not that expansiv to take anyway.

[Tuckles]

I too am trying out a Krakendoom List, but a boarding party style one instead of a land-based one (as his fluff in the 5th ed codex was that he was specialized in Ship-to-Ship combat).

 

My current list (subject to change) is drop pod Dreads, WGTs + Flyers, including the Void Claw Formation.

 

IMO CotGW (Champions of Fenris) is only useful if you plan on using a lot of WG (e.g. in a -wing list like what I'm doing) because all it really gives is +1 WS to your WG and TWC, as well as give you preferred enemy in challenges (which you have to make). I'd take CAD or if you really want to make sure that the flyer comes in, Wolves Unleashed.

 

To fill out the points, I'd suggest either WG Bikers or Swiftclaws, as they're in line with Krakendoom's fluff. You could add the Stormfang as well as Land Speeders because of the "assault craftiness".

 

Don't forget to get a Wolf Lord, and if you run CotGW, with the Krakenbone sword for more kraken-y goodness! It's a purposeful gimp but I'd run him on a bike with WG Bikers instead of TWC just because of fluff purposes. Though in my current list he runs with a squad of 15 unupgraded Bloodclaws inside a Stormwolf. They have thus far wrecked every non-vehicle model in an assault.

[Frater Cornelius]

It ain't a direct fluff list, just a general theme. In the end, it will be going competitive so I can not gimp myself too much.

I do have an awesome plan to make a Champs army. Will post soon.

[Frater Cornelius]

Okay, I had a thought. In order to play Champs detachment I will skip GH, well, troops in general. Have a look:

9 GH + 1 WGPL, CCW, 2 meltas, 1 combi-melta, 1 melta bomb = 200 points

9 PAWG + 1 WGPL, 3 combi-meltas, 1 melta bomb = 215 points

PAWG get WS5 and one additional attack. They lose the ability to fire a melta every turn, which I do not care about that much because my list is for close combat, so realistically you will fire your meltas 1-2 times a game anyway.

 

So, at the same cost (slightly cheaper actually because required relics in Champs are cheaper, namely Krakensword and that reroll to hit in melee thingy) I can get WS5 on my entire army (WG and TWC). That is awesome. I tried the Vindicators, they underperformed by a lot. Drop those in favour of some more fast units like WG bikes. Then either get more Land Speeders, or drop the Speeders and get either Skyclaws or drop pods with either more WG or Dreads. That gives me a very fast list with more than just 1 threatening unit (the TWC + Lord unit), with extremely capable choppa and formidable dakka and solid durability. No matter where and how you engage them, they will deliver.

 

Update: Here is the new version of my List.

 

Champs detachment

 

Thunderlord

• Runic Armour, Krakenbone Sword, Fellclaw's Teeth, SS, TWM, 2x Fenrisian Wolf

 

6 PAWG

• Bikes, 2x combi-plasma, 2x melta bombs, 1x power axe

6 PAWG

• Bikes, 2x combi-plasma, 2x melta bombs, 1x power axe

• Stormwolf w/ TLMM

 

10 PAWG

• 3x combi-melta, 1x melta bomb

• Rhino w/ dozer blade

10 PAWG

• 3x combi-melta, 1x melta bomb

• Rhino w/ dozer blade

 

4 TWC

• 4x SS, 2x melta bomb

4 TWC

• 4x SS, 2x melta bomb

 

8 Fenrisian Wolves

 

Thunderlord goes with the wolves. Stormwolf is being bought as dedicated by the bike unit to safe a FA slot. This gives me 5 fast moving, extremely choppy units and 2 transport filled with angry shooty and choppy units. The Stormwolf is there to help hunting tank and fliers.

The entire list is basically a fast Beta Strike list where I capitalize on turn 2 and survive turn 1 by having loads of things to shoot at. There is a little bit of alpha strike involved because WG bikers can shoot fairly well and PAWG can disembark and shoot as well. Once the Thunderlord, TWC and Bikes hit melee range though, it will be awesome, especially since they are all WS5.

 

What do you think of the new incarnation? Is it fine? Or would White Scars serve me better?

[Rift Blade]

I say play it for 3 or 4 games(proxy models if you have to) before you decide. Lists on paper & lists on the table top are 2 different things. Personally, I like the look of the list overall. It clearly fits the theme you're going for but the question remains, will it work? I think so but I also think after playing 3 or 4 times you'll tweak it. You've got the infantry covered. You have CC covered. You have air support covered. I even think you have anti mech covered. My 2 cents.