Sergeant Lowe Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 What are people's opinion on using a chapter name that is already is the background but has little or no information on it? The reason I'm asking is that I am planning on doing a chapter using Dark Angels and was thinking of using the name Angels of Damnation and when I did a Google search to see if the name had been used I found that it had and that all that's known about the chapter is name. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295545-expanding-a-known-chapter-with-no-background/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 They're there just for that reason. Fill in gaps or make a name for you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295545-expanding-a-known-chapter-with-no-background/#findComment-3784820 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysimachus Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 The risk is that a GW writer will pick that name and create official fluff that negates what you've written. It's pretty unlikely though given the number of Chapters with names but no other details they've come up with over the years. Not to mention that even if you do create your own name, it could still happen if GW independently came up with the same name! So, go for it! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295545-expanding-a-known-chapter-with-no-background/#findComment-3784833 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 The risk is that a GW writer will pick that name and create official fluff that negates what you've written. It's pretty unlikely though given the number of Chapters with names but no other details they've come up with over the years. The risk is probably a lot lower than that of them releasing something you don't like for a well-known Chapter, and they actually provide a get-out clause for the possibility in the codex: A Legacy Reforged Over the millennia, some Space Marine Chapters have been annihilated, only for a new Chapter to be founded with the same name, heraldry and traditions of their forebears, continuing their legacy. On one notable occasion, two Chapters were founded with identical names and heraldries – the Celestial Swords. Such is the labyrinthine bureaucracy of the Administratum that the blunder was not realised until two centuries later when both Chapters were wiped out holding back Abaddon’s 9th Black Crusade and the bodies of nearly two-thousand battle-brothers were recovered in the Cicerine system. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295545-expanding-a-known-chapter-with-no-background/#findComment-3784892 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 What are people's opinion on using a chapter name that is already is the background but has little or no information on it? The reason I'm asking is that I am planning on doing a chapter using Dark Angels and was thinking of using the name Angels of Damnation and when I did a Google search to see if the name had been used I found that it had and that all that's known about the chapter is name. Go for it if you feel like you can do the name justice. ;) Aside from the drawbacks already listed the only thing that would make me think twice was the fact that the Chapter would not truly feel 'mine' to me. But that's just me (I'm a silly man, really). The meat and the bones for the Chapter is truly what makes it yours, as opposed to just the name. You could, in theory, take a well known Chapter and give it the same treatment - you just have to have a plausible premise to do it, like an alternate universe or something. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295545-expanding-a-known-chapter-with-no-background/#findComment-3784954 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Lowe Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 The name comes from a list of chapter names that was printed in the first chapter approved book. The only thing that was noted was that they aren't a second founding chapter, other than that there is no other info. - I checked on both WH40k wiki and also on lexicanum. What I was planning to do with them was have them as a successor of the Dark Angels but that they aren't acknowledged (still working out why - possibly that they refuse to hunt the fallen or something) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295545-expanding-a-known-chapter-with-no-background/#findComment-3785146 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 What if it's a Dark Angels successor that doesn't know? It'd explain why they are estranged by their brothers, fellow sons of the Lion. Nobody in a position of power would trust them, because they don't know what everyone else knows. And they can't tell them about it, because they haven't gone through the vigorous process of promotion and accumulation of knowledge that the others have. And they can't get them to go through the same, because what Chapter Master would be willing to lower himself to the same level as a battle-brother, even if it is within a primogenitor Chapter? And the so the cycle of ignorance begins and perpetuates itself. As for why they don't know in the very beginning? Well, it's established that the Dark Angels don't get many successors because they aren't trusted very much by the High Lords of Terra. Their secretive, mercurial nature puts them at odds with what these men and women want Space Marine Chapters to be. But maybe they would be willing to create a Dark Angels successor in which the scions of the First Legion are removed from the equation. They are of pure gene-seed, after all. Keep it in the dark, or neglect to tell the Dark Angels and their successors. By the time they learn of what has happened, it's too late. They're not in the circle, and now they never will be. Of course, I could also see the other sons of the Lion manipulating events to get this Chapter killed off in its entirety, because an ignorant Dark Angels successor could be the most dangerous thing in the universe to them. But hey, I'm sure you can come up with some good reasons why this wouldn't happen, if you don't want it to. Anywho, that's just something that immediately popped in my head as something I think would be a cool idea. Feel free to run with it if you like it, or use it as a springboard to something even better if you'd like to, or ignore it if it's not to your style. I won't say much on the matter of using Chapters already mentioned in GW lore, as what has been said already reflects my own thoughts on the matter. If you want to, go for it. You've been warned on some of the issues that might come with it, but to a lot of people those issues don't really matter to them. It does for me. I've had to rename a few of my Chapters upon discovering they were already in use, but that's just because of my interests and decisions. As Olisredan said, you could even take a well-known Chapter and do whatever you'd like with it, if you wanted to. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295545-expanding-a-known-chapter-with-no-background/#findComment-3785675 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqui Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 I can only agree with the others - go for it! However, I started out making my own background for my main army, only to find that after 25 years, GW decides to actually give them a few lines in the Space Marine Codex! Still what was written isn't something that can or has affected what I have come up with (which is slowly being re-written as I'm not happy with it, but that's another story for elsewhere...) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295545-expanding-a-known-chapter-with-no-background/#findComment-3786760 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Lowe Posted August 30, 2014 Author Share Posted August 30, 2014 This is what I've come up with as a start for the chapter. I have decided to keep some things still Origins: Crusade Founded: Unknown - decided to go with it but I'm still going to have a first sighting of the chapter which is M37 Progenitors: Dark Angels Purity: A New Generation - not too sure about this bit though Home World: Fleet based Organisation: Divergent - follow DA chapter Beliefs: The Emperor Above all - due to not knowing whose gene see they have strength - Under Strength Combat Doctrine: Codex Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295545-expanding-a-known-chapter-with-no-background/#findComment-3795181 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Founded: Unknown - decided to go with it but I'm still going to have a first sighting of the chapter which is M37 You're going have to think of why it is an unknown detail. Just be sure to make the reader aware of either what caused the loss of the data, or why it has been lost. As you may well know, filling out an important detail with a simple 'Unknown' is tantamount to laziness. Do not be lazy - it will require explaining. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295545-expanding-a-known-chapter-with-no-background/#findComment-3795189 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 If you want to go the Unknown route, I would suggest thinking about what this does for your Chapter, for better and for worse. In most cases, I see people going for an unknown founding to lend a false air of mysteriousness. It seems like an easy way to do so, but the end result just seems unnecessarily bare. No matter what, your Chapter was Founded at a specific point. And this was the Imperium's first encounter of your Chapter, because they created you. What I would suggest is to either go with the traditional IA and choose a Founding, or keep it unknown with a general period of time in which first encountered, but write the whole article from the perspective of someone local, knowledgeable but far from being part of the highest in-crowds. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295545-expanding-a-known-chapter-with-no-background/#findComment-3795194 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Lowe Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 I get where you're coming from. I am now thinking that what I might do is have the chapter being founded in the 37th millennium but have it that the chapters gene seed be the Dark Angels but that the chapter isn't accepted or identify themselves as one of the unforgiven. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295545-expanding-a-known-chapter-with-no-background/#findComment-3797394 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Lowe Posted September 7, 2014 Author Share Posted September 7, 2014 I have made a plan for the chapter. they're a chapter that was part of the 23rd founding and were originally set up to go on a crusade to hunt those chapters that had fallen to chaos. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295545-expanding-a-known-chapter-with-no-background/#findComment-3802799 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 I get where you're coming from. I am now thinking that what I might do is have the chapter being founded in the 37th millennium but have it that the chapters gene seed be the Dark Angels but that the chapter isn't accepted or identify themselves as one of the unforgiven. I have made a plan for the chapter. they're a chapter that was part of the 23rd founding and were originally set up to go on a crusade to hunt those chapters that had fallen to chaos. Dark Angels DIY Chapters come with a lot of baggage - and it can be difficult. Remember, though, that "Angels" Chapters don't have to come from BA or DA gene-seed. The Angels Porphyr don't seem to bear any of the hallmarks of belonging to either, and don't forget the Emperor's famous quote when talking about the Astartes: "They shall be my Angels of Death and they shall know no fear." A founder from any gene-legacy could take inspiration - the Astartes are all, after all, warrior-angels in the service of the Emperor. If you're thinking of having missing details for a Chapter, you need to think of the many layers of Imperial bureaucracy. From which viewpoint will you be writing about your Chapter? Is it that the Imperium have lost details or the Chapter, that the Chapter itself doesn't know, or something else? If that is the case, how did it come to pass? How can you get into a situation where none of the Chapter's marines know the Chapter's past? Equally, you need to remember how the suspicious and mercurial nature of the Dark Angels has led to the High Lords of Terra distrusting them. Why would a Chapter of suspicious lineage be dispatched to fight the forces of Chaos - a force where unquestioned loyalty and faith would be the key requirements? Have a think about the whole shape of your concept before getting caught up on little details that can derail you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295545-expanding-a-known-chapter-with-no-background/#findComment-3802815 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Lowe Posted September 9, 2014 Author Share Posted September 9, 2014 The plan for the gene seed was that it's suspected to be the Dark Angels but has never been confirmed by the chapter and the Dark Angel deny it. Also this is something that I've been wondering - would the Dark Angels & successors be the only chapters that are organised the way they are or could other chapters potentially follow the same organisation? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295545-expanding-a-known-chapter-with-no-background/#findComment-3804500 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Lowe Posted September 24, 2014 Author Share Posted September 24, 2014 Would other chapters who are not successors of the Dark Angels possibly have a similar company structure? or would it only be their successors Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295545-expanding-a-known-chapter-with-no-background/#findComment-3817298 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysimachus Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Well, the Death/Raven wings are DA specific, but obviously a Terminator armoured 1st Co. is nothing out of the ordinary. Likewise the 6th/7th Co.s are trained to operate as Bike/Land speeder forces. So it's not impossible to move some things round... but you'd have to ask why the Chapter would just happen to choose the same org as the DA and I'd also question what it would add to the Chapter in terms of character? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295545-expanding-a-known-chapter-with-no-background/#findComment-3817355 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stercus Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 As far as filling in your own fluff for a chapter for whom no background has been given, I'd say feel free to knock yourself out. If possible, avoid directly contradicting what's been said already, and don't go too off the wall and you can't go far wrong. I was looking for a name for a chapter to be gobbled up by a tyranid splinter fleet in some DIY fluff, and off the top of my head came up with the name "Knights Eternal". I did a quick google search, and GW have listed a chapter named the 'Knights of Eternity'. Boo! Think I. Read a little further, and the only information that's been written is that the chapter were wiped out by hive fleet Kraken. So, long story short, I'm pinching the name and running with it. What I had planned doesnt contradict what GW have already said, and I don't want to twist the chapter into anything special... I'm just going to flesh out how many courses the nids took to finish them off. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295545-expanding-a-known-chapter-with-no-background/#findComment-3817364 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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