Rommel44 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Hey mates, with the new Grey Knight book leaked onto the internet, I began to work on building an army list when I got stuck on the Strike Squads. while they do gain a lot more then a standard marine for those 5 extra points, they lost a lot of firepower with the Psycannon and the Psylencer becoming heavy weapons, and Interceptors are a more effective choice with the Incinerators. That leaves these guys with Storm Bolters, and at this point, not sure what would be a good way to field these guys. The Rhino Rush and Deep Striking seems like the only 2 ways I can think of, however I'm not sure if the Rhino Rush list is even effective anymore even with vehicles becoming harder to destroy, and Terminators perform the Deep Striking option better and with more firepower to go with there 2+ save. Kinda at a loss how to run these guys, but if any veterans have had any luck with these guys please share how you used them or what role do they serve for your list? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 They're complete garbage now man. Terminators are a far better choice for Troops. As far as power-armoured squads go, Purifiers are way ahead of everyone else, closely followed by Interceptors (who don't bring as many special weapons, but have insane mobility and Deepstrike). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/#findComment-3784849 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodTzar Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Most reasonable tactica for them is; to snap their back-packs off and get the personal teleporter back on; perhaps just repaint their helmets white. On the more seriouse note, they might be nice ...hmmm... no they are not Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/#findComment-3784864 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Don't use them. I wouldn't even advise Purifiers now. Interecptors with Incinerators. Only way to go. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/#findComment-3784945 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bionicman Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Thankfully if you play that detatchment only one troop choice is needed. That is a 100 pts tax in Strikes if you want to go minimum and not field terminators (but why shouldn't you). Last edition I played MSU with strikes and psybolt-razors but that build is dead now, due to psycannon AND razorback changes. I don't see any reason to field strikes now, even when they are a bit cheaper than other MEQ in our codex and have OS. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/#findComment-3784961 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I wouldn't even advise Purifiers now. WC2 (doubles when you combat squad) Fearless 2A base Four specials (aka four psycannon) Soul Blaze (aka hordes never want to be in melee with you) Cleansing Flame (aka our version of Skyfire, when an FMC comes within 15" just walk to it and flame on, guranteed rage if you cause it to faceplant, as you can now shoot it in the Shooting phase straight after. Oh, and it also BBQ's hordes when they fail their charge due to your insane Overwatch with aformentioned quad psycannon) Why wouldn't you take Purifiers? Best PA unit in the game, hands down. Shame about Riptides and Heldrakes...but that's why we have 'Invisibility' and 'Forewarning'. Thankfully if you play that detatchment only one troop choice is needed. That is a 100 pts tax in Strikes if you want to go minimum and not field terminators (but why shouldn't you). Last edition I played MSU with strikes and psybolt-razors but that build is dead now, due to psycannon AND razorback changes. I don't see any reason to field strikes now, even when they are a bit cheaper than other MEQ in our codex and have OS. Nemesis Strikeforce is designed for spamming Terminators dude. Strikes don't belong there either :( I hate it. Henchmen gave us affordable Troops choices to fill our our mandatory, thus allowing us to field the expensive power units. Now we have to invest at minimum 220 points into Troops, just for the worst unit in our codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/#findComment-3785044 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeptus Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I wouldn't even advise Purifiers now.WC2 (doubles when you combat squad) Fearless 2A base Four specials (aka four psycannon) Soul Blaze (aka hordes never want to be in melee with you) Cleansing Flame (aka our version of Skyfire, when an FMC comes within 15" just walk to it and flame on, guranteed rage if you cause it to faceplant, as you can now shoot it in the Shooting phase straight after. Oh, and it also BBQ's hordes when they fail their charge due to your insane Overwatch with aformentioned quad psycannon) Because it lacks the range to kill anything, and lacks the mobility to get within range. One plasma cannon will obliterate ten Purifiers without breaking a sweat, and you won't even so much as fire a shot in return. It also lacks the protection to stay alive for long enough to matter. Salvo killed the Psycannon for PAGK, and killing the Psycannon killed Purifiers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/#findComment-3785061 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I hate it. Henchmen gave us affordable Troops choices to fill our our mandatory, thus allowing us to field the expensive power units. Now we have to invest at minimum 220 points into Troops, just for the worst unit in our codex. Strikeforce. 1 Manditory Troop unit. 4 Elites. ;) It's like GW tailored a FoC for use and out lack of units in FoC slots! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/#findComment-3785082 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Because it lacks the range to kill anything, and lacks the mobility to get within range 24" isn't that bad, its usually a turn or 2 of moving and Running. I routinely start deleting stuff Turn 2, sometimes Turn 3 if the enemy are really hugging their back edge. Deploy aggressively (they can shoot you at any range regardless), you'd be surprised how quickly you get in range. Plus, the new objective missions really force people to stop camping and spread out to claim stuff, so you can force some bad decisions out of opponents by deploying well. Don't bother with Rhinos, they die Turn 1. One plasma cannon will obliterate ten Purifiers without breaking a sweat, and you won't even so much as fire a shot in return. Where do you play? Last time I checked, plasma cannon is 3" blast, not 5". It also doesn't ignore cover, has to roll for overheat and scatter, and if I'm not mentally retarded and do the standard 2" spread between my models, it at best hits 2 or 3. Learning to spread out to minimise blast damage is like 40k 101, you learn that before you learn how melee works. If you mean Riptides, well they can nuke my Purifiers if they want, but that means they're not shooting the Dreadknight I just shunted into their face. It also lacks the protection to stay alive for long enough to matter. 'Shrouding'. 'Invisibility'. 'Forewarning'. LOS-blocking terrain. Do you even play this army? Salvo killed the Psycannon for PAGK, and killing the Psycannon killed Purifiers. Look if you really hate psycannons that much, take incinerators instead (kinda overkill though, given Purifiers annhilate chaff and even 3+ save units very easily by default). Deliver via Raven to the enemy backline and watch them cry. Strikeforce. 1 Manditory Troop unit. 4 Elites. It's like GW tailored a FoC for use and out lack of units in FoC slots! What if I would like Objective Secured? Don't get me wrong, I think the Nemesis Strikeforce is useful, but not with Purifiers. It's designed to deliver a bunch of Terminators Turn 1, overloading their Interceptor defense and hitting with an alpha strike that maybe puts you ahead. Anything that can't Deepstrike is a waste of time in that formation. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/#findComment-3785083 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy-inquisitor Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 In defense of the humble strike squad - think for a moment why you see Tau lists with kroot squads in them, generally with one hound. Why take such a squishy unit with inferior shooting in a codex full of great stuff? The reason is that a unit that can come out of nowhere and snatch an objective can win games. Strike squads in reserve can do this for you. Of course being GK they are more expensive and better than competitors like kroot or SM scouts but the principle is the same and the value of grabbing a VP for yourself that your opponent thought they had is the same. For this role you want to keep it simple, expensive hammers and psycannon go on your frontline forces rather than these guys. An incinerator to clear off competing objective snatchers might be worth the points, not much else. Terminators could do this but they are expensive overkill for the job, if you are clearing scouts or kroot from an out-of-the-way objective GKSS will get the job done. They will not be the best unit in your army but they might win you the game anyway. Just like those kroot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/#findComment-3785127 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 What if I would like Objective Secured? Then you need to spend 220 points minimum. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/#findComment-3785134 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest arbitor marduk Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Just take terminators, they are much better and got made cheaper, i find that any power armour greyknights get squished easily Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/#findComment-3785147 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BladeGaurd Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 If you want to use strike squads I consider buying a land raider as a heavy support and sticking them in it for a more body charge turn 2 or a rhino/razorback base flanking squad to give a little bit of fire support. They can also be a "cheep" deep striking squad to give support to your other deep striking elements, 5-8 guys with a special weapon. I do not think that just because Terminators and Interceptors are better that the strike squad has lost there place they just suffer from some of the issues the HS version does, with all our weapons having a 24 inch range I have to move to fire if I get first turn and that incurs penalties to shooting. Rommel44 how do you see your army playing and that will tell you if the strikes are worth it and in what way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/#findComment-3785205 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Land Raiders are no longer Heavy, but Dedicated Transports. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/#findComment-3785211 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lt051 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Wait, can we not take LR as heavy options? That would be super dumb since rhino/RB are fast options now Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/#findComment-3785216 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Our Rhino/RB are also dedicated Transports and not Fast. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/#findComment-3785218 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BladeGaurd Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I am sure that rhinos and razorbacks are both fast attack and dedicated transports like they are in the space wolf book and the same with ork trucks and the taurox prim in the scion codex. It also makes sense because there is no little icon or section for dedicated transports, if there was there would be a limit on how many an army could have. I am also assuming that land raiders are both heavy support and dedicated transports. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/#findComment-3785226 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiveFleetKelari Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 The leaked images from the Codex have the Fast Attack symbol for the Rhino and Razorback and the Heavy Support symbol for the Land Raider variants. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/#findComment-3785256 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Do they? Couldn't see them on the Blood of Kittens pics. :/ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/#findComment-3785259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lt051 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Regardless you could take it with terminators and just have strike take it from them, although really I think combat squading in a rhino might be a better option. Will test it out Saturday Or just have your psycannons sit back while the rest take a cheap transport Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/#findComment-3785262 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BladeGaurd Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Regardless you could take it with terminators and just have strike take it from them, although really I think combat squading in a rhino might be a better option. Will test it out Saturday Or just have your psycannons sit back while the rest take a cheap transport Yep, they are not dead but there roll and play may have changed to more obj grabbing and support or landraider charging. Assuming the charge godhammer (standard land raider): 5 terminators will have 15-20 attack based on equipment with 1 incinerator where as 10 strikes will have 21-31 based on equipment, I would think about 22-25 with 2 incinerator will be common for this strike group. in my experience after they charging squad kills there enemy survivability is not high even/especially for terminators in the middle of the enemy line. fire support: 8-10 men depending on if you want to combat squad. combat squad: 10 with 2 heavy weapons and a razor back or rhino. if rhino when you pop out the heavies are in 1 squad behind the other. if razorback your heavies get into position and the razorback and combat squad move to flank or get an obj. I am going with the twinlink plasma guns and lascannon razorback, nice anti tank and anti heavy infantry. I think squad base heavy weapons is really to taste now a days, cannons for medium vehicles and psylencers for multi wound. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/#findComment-3785293 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 In defense of the humble strike squad - think for a moment why you see Tau lists with kroot squads in them, generally with one hound. Why take such a squishy unit with inferior shooting in a codex full of great stuff? The reason is that a unit that can come out of nowhere and snatch an objective can win games. What? The reason Tau armies have Sniper Kroot is because they have mandatory Troops slots to fill. In Farsight lists Kroot don't exist at all, because Crisis are filling those Troop slots. Kroot aren't magically going to win the game for the Tau player. They're there to be ignored and camp objectives by game end. They usually die to incidental fire. Strike squads in reserve can do this for you. Of course being GK they are more expensive and better than competitors like kroot or SM scouts but the principle is the same and the value of grabbing a VP for yourself that your opponent thought they had is the same. For this role you want to keep it simple, expensive hammers and psycannon go on your frontline forces rather than these guys. An incinerator to clear off competing objective snatchers might be worth the points, not much else. Terminators could do this but they are expensive overkill for the job, if you are clearing scouts or kroot from an out-of-the-way objective GKSS will get the job done. They will not be the best unit in your army but they might win you the game anyway. Just like those kroot. Except I'm vulnerable to all the vagaries of Deepstrike. Interceptors do that job a thousand times better, due to their mobility. Then you need to spend 220 points minimum. Thanks GW Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/#findComment-3785356 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 You're welcome! :D Consider it a gift to commemorate Matt's departure. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/#findComment-3785385 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rommel44 Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 Lots of good posts so far, but at this point, even I can admit that Strike squads just don't seem to have a role anymore at this point, which is a real shame to say the least and will most likely fill that slot with Terminators for my Troops. However, the Purifier list is still viable, but even then I feel that GW didn't really do a great job with this book, as they didn't improve any units that needed it and they just kinda kept everything the same, minus the usualy point decreases and Relics that every book is getting now. Seems like the only PA guys worth taking in this book are Purifiers and Interceptors, however I am not sure how long Purifiers will last with the changes to the Psycannon. That being said, how will the Psycannons work now that they are Salvo? Does that mean I can still shoot at normal BS even if I move, but I would then be limited to 12 inches with 2 shots? Never used Salvo weapons before so I am just trying to understand that rule. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/#findComment-3785552 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BladeGaurd Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Lots of good posts so far, but at this point, even I can admit that Strike squads just don't seem to have a role anymore at this point, which is a real shame to say the least and will most likely fill that slot with Terminators for my Troops. However, the Purifier list is still viable, but even then I feel that GW didn't really do a great job with this book, as they didn't improve any units that needed it and they just kinda kept everything the same, minus the usualy point decreases and Relics that every book is getting now. Seems like the only PA guys worth taking in this book are Purifiers and Interceptors, however I am not sure how long Purifiers will last with the changes to the Psycannon. That being said, how will the Psycannons work now that they are Salvo? Does that mean I can still shoot at normal BS even if I move, but I would then be limited to 12 inches with 2 shots? Never used Salvo weapons before so I am just trying to understand that rule. Yep that is how salvo works. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/#findComment-3785565 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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