Rommel44 Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 Thanks for the clarification. If thats the case, then it seems that Interceptors are the PAGK's only worth taking at a first glance, but will Purifiers still be a viable choice? Granted people say he isn't that good, but the Crowe, Purifier spam list does sound a bit tempting to say the least. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/page/2/#findComment-3785569 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoJack Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Lots of good posts so far, but at this point, even I can admit that Strike squads just don't seem to have a role anymore at this point, which is a real shame to say the least and will most likely fill that slot with Terminators for my Troops. However, the Purifier list is still viable, but even then I feel that GW didn't really do a great job with this book, as they didn't improve any units that needed it and they just kinda kept everything the same, minus the usualy point decreases and Relics that every book is getting now. Seems like the only PA guys worth taking in this book are Purifiers and Interceptors, however I am not sure how long Purifiers will last with the changes to the Psycannon. That being said, how will the Psycannons work now that they are Salvo? Does that mean I can still shoot at normal BS even if I move, but I would then be limited to 12 inches with 2 shots? Never used Salvo weapons before so I am just trying to understand that rule. Yep that is how salvo works. You also can't charge after firing salvo. Would have been nice if GW gave strikes (or any PAGK unit) some kind of pseudo relentless that allowed them to do so, as that would make the changes to psycannons much more managable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/page/2/#findComment-3785710 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lt051 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 We have 5ed rapid fire in a 7e world :( But with # of shots reversed for some reason Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/page/2/#findComment-3785739 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Thanks for the clarification. If thats the case, then it seems that Interceptors are the PAGK's only worth taking at a first glance, but will Purifiers still be a viable choice? Granted people say he isn't that good, but the Crowe, Purifier spam list does sound a bit tempting to say the least. Purifier spam would be fine, but why on Terra would you take Crowe? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/page/2/#findComment-3785760 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lt051 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 It's easy to forget gameplay wise purifiers and Crowe are completely independent now Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/page/2/#findComment-3785763 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rommel44 Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 Only reason considered him is that although it's not yet confirmed, taking him allows Purifiers to be Troop Choices in a Formation with him or thats what the rumor is anyways, Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/page/2/#findComment-3785775 Share on other sites More sharing options...
exsanguis Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 What about using two Strike Squads (keeping them at 5 men) with Psycannons, or even no special weapon, in order to get 2x Razorbacks with Las/plas into the list. Essentially the RB becomes the objective secured unit, If it gets popped, the Strikes get out and find cover or go to ground or whatever, Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/page/2/#findComment-3785793 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Only reason considered him is that although it's not yet confirmed, taking him allows Purifiers to be Troop Choices in a Formation with him or thats what the rumor is anyways, We won't know for sure until mid-day tomorrow, but several folks who have had access to the codex have said that there is only one Formation in the book, and that's the Grey Knights Brotherhood. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/page/2/#findComment-3785865 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnImA8 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Why is everyone griefing over Crowe? Crowe is one of the sickest HQ's we have (all of our HQ's are significantly better, but Crowe is by far one of the top choices). His new challenge rules are fluffy and interesting (and I've always wanted Chaos Space Marines and us Grey Knights to have the same challenging rules, it makes our games so cool), and guess what? He's damn good in challenges! He will have between three and four, WS 8 (!), S 6 (with hammerhand), AP 2 attacks at I-step 6. When the opponent attacks back he'll have a re-rollable 2+/4++ because he gets to use both stances, AND should he die to your opponent he gets a single attack back. Doesn't sound as good as the original Heroic Sacrifice? Keep in mind that this is a free attack unlike the previous psychic power, and he can Smash to double strength since it's only a single attack. For free! Does he lose these bonuses against basic infantry? Yes, but that's fine because he's an Independent Character now, and your squad should win combat handily while he slaughters the challenger. If you really want him to contribute in the fight against basic infantry, lets not forget that he's PML2 and has Cleansing Flame. There's only one unit I'm excited to use in this new codex, and it's Crowe lol. Edit: As to the usage of Strikes, I'm unconvinced that they're good for much of anything now. They're wholly overpriced given how inexpensive Terminators are, and Psycannons are significantly worse and more expensive now. The only reasonable approach to Strikes imo, is in Razorbacks with Incinerators. And honestly, Purifiers do it better. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/page/2/#findComment-3785972 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoJack Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 I don't think strikes are as bad as everyone thinks they are. While they definitely lost some of their mobility (or at least, the desire to use it), they can still sit midfield and pour S7 down range. Do purifers do it better? Well, they certainly do it more efficiently, as they can take more psycannons per point. Does that necessarily translate to better? I don't know. Strikes still provide more models for equivalent points, which directly translates into better scoring and board control through presence. When comparing them to terminators, you get both more models per point, and more psycannons. The trade-off is in resilience and mobility. And since I mentioned mobility twice, I'm sure someone is thinking, "what about interceptors, they're way more mobile!" which is true, they certainly are. But I think interceptors are going to provide a different role. They're going to be great at counter-charging and horde clearing. Like it or not, we still need psycannons, as we're not always going to be able to punch open every tank we come across. What we need to do, is try lists out. Play a strike heavy, a purifier heavy, a terminator heavy, and if you're so inclined, a paladin heavy list out against the same army. They do it against a different one. And they another one. The make an unbiased, rational decision based on your results. These discussions are great, they're getting the creative juices flowing, but we shouldn't be so quick to say what is best (or isn't). The codex isn't even out yet and already I'm seeing things like, "'X' is the only way to run GKs now," when you have no experience (yours or anyone else's) to back up the claim. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/page/2/#findComment-3786008 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hexagon Sun Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Only reason considered him is that although it's not yet confirmed, taking him allows Purifiers to be Troop Choices in a Formation with him or thats what the rumor is anyways, We won't know for sure until mid-day tomorrow, but several folks who have had access to the codex have said that there is only one Formation in the book, and that's the Grey Knights Brotherhood. V Picked mine up yesterday and that's correct. There's just the one formation and the nemesis strike force detachment. No FOC altering anymore for purifiers or paladins. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/page/2/#findComment-3786018 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnImA8 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 What we need to do, is try lists out. Play a strike heavy, a purifier heavy, a terminator heavy, and if you're so inclined, a paladin heavy list out against the same army. They do it against a different one. And they another one. The make an unbiased, rational decision based on your results. These discussions are great, they're getting the creative juices flowing, but we shouldn't be so quick to say what is best (or isn't). The codex isn't even out yet and already I'm seeing things like, "'X' is the only way to run GKs now," when you have no experience (yours or anyone else's) to back up the claim. I suppose that's fair. I maintain that Strikes are not worthwhile at all now, but I will join you in this endeavor since I have the models anyway. I'll also present an analysis at some point tomorrow Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/page/2/#findComment-3786066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaoticEric Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 When playing a combined arms detachment I think two 5-man squads with a lascannon/plasma razorback can be good for grabbing and holding objectives. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/page/2/#findComment-3786168 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Strikes are complete garbage though. They're just for filling your mandatory Troops not-so-cheaply. I hate them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/page/2/#findComment-3786179 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 After much deliberation (but no playtesting, yet), I can only envision one way of playing my Strikes, and that is with Incinerators only, never Psycannon, while taking advantage of their Deep Strike ability off of forward positioned Teleport Homers. This is the only way that I can really imagine them contributing. In my mind, they've got to get in close to enemy units for this fight. Once they're within inches of enemy units, then they're just as good as Interceptors, but a few points cheaper. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/page/2/#findComment-3786403 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BladeGaurd Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Strikes are complete garbage though. They're just for filling your mandatory Troops not-so-cheaply. I hate them. From what I have heard from you, you think Grey Knights are now garbage and are very anti the new codex so why are you bothering to play them. Either be constructive or do not be here. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/page/2/#findComment-3786404 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rurik the blessed Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Why is everyone griefing over Crowe? Crowe is one of the sickest HQ's we have (all of our HQ's are significantly better, but Crowe is by far one of the top choices). His new challenge rules are fluffy and interesting (and I've always wanted Chaos Space Marines and us Grey Knights to have the same challenging rules, it makes our games so cool), and guess what? He's damn good in challenges! He will have between three and four, WS 8 (!), S 6 (with hammerhand), AP 2 attacks at I-step 6. When the opponent attacks back he'll have a re-rollable 2+/4++ because he gets to use both stances, AND should he die to your opponent he gets a single attack back. Doesn't sound as good as the original Heroic Sacrifice? Keep in mind that this is a free attack unlike the previous psychic power, and he can Smash to double strength since it's only a single attack. For free! Does he lose these bonuses against basic infantry? Yes, but that's fine because he's an Independent Character now, and your squad should win combat handily while he slaughters the challenger. If you really want him to contribute in the fight against basic infantry, lets not forget that he's PML2 and has Cleansing Flame. There's only one unit I'm excited to use in this new codex, and it's Crowe lol. Edit: As to the usage of Strikes, I'm unconvinced that they're good for much of anything now. They're wholly overpriced given how inexpensive Terminators are, and Psycannons are significantly worse and more expensive now. The only reasonable approach to Strikes imo, is in Razorbacks with Incinerators. And honestly, Purifiers do it better. Why AP2? Crowe's sword has AP "-" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/page/2/#findComment-3786456 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 From what I have heard from you, you think Grey Knights are now garbage and are very anti the new codex so why are you bothering to play them. Either be constructive or do not be here. Great advice to give one of the Mods of the board. Especially one who has been here a *long* time... Oh, and you might have missed the 'primer' stickied above. Honestly, we've tried to be as upbeat and positive as possible. But there's just not much to be constructive about. I'd throw out the 'can't polish' adage. But Mythbusters busted that. You actually *can* polish a turd. But you can't polish the new GK dex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/page/2/#findComment-3786457 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rurik the blessed Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 I hate it. Henchmen gave us affordable Troops choices to fill our our mandatory, thus allowing us to field the expensive power units. Now we have to invest at minimum 220 points into Troops, just for the worst unit in our codex. Strikeforce. 1 Manditory Troop unit. 4 Elites. It's like GW tailored a FoC for use and out lack of units in FoC slots! Wait! you are all bad... 10 man Strike GK only cost 210pts... those 10 points extra are for the justicar, and there is just one. About GK Strike Tactica, i think the best is to split them with two psilencer an sit on objectives. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/page/2/#findComment-3786462 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BladeGaurd Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 From what I have heard from you, you think Grey Knights are now garbage and are very anti the new codex so why are you bothering to play them. Either be constructive or do not be here. Great advice to give one of the Mods of the board. Especially one who has been here a *long* time... Oh, and you might have missed the 'primer' stickied above. Honestly, we've tried to be as upbeat and positive as possible. But there's just not much to be constructive about. I'd throw out the 'can't polish' adage. But Mythbusters busted that. You actually *can* polish a turd. But you can't polish the new GK dex. If he is a mod of the board then it is even more important for him as he is preserved to be in a position of power or authority. This holds even truer sense he is an old moderator. I read the new primer he placed up when he placed it up and it was extremely bias and if I where a new player I would not bother with grey knights or this site based off of his primer. I expect a primer and a moderator to be impartial in there statement and post, which means to avoid using words like garbage in standard post. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/page/2/#findComment-3786469 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Yeah he might be biast a bit, but it's from experience. And he's not alone, most of the people are sharing the exact same opinion. But would you rather he lied? I know I wouldn't. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/page/2/#findComment-3786485 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lt051 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 It's understandable for a longtime gk player to be hurt by this new codex, but attacking people obviously won't make things better... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/page/2/#findComment-3786487 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Where as I'd expect a Mod to be honest and fair. If the dex is crap, it's crap. Don't lie to players. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/page/2/#findComment-3786498 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BladeGaurd Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 there is a difference from lying and removing your bias on a topic. you do not need to say you like something but you could say your not sure of it place in the codex or army list. the other alternative is not to say anything, I know a few boards where moderators are basically silent and only get involved when they are needed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/page/2/#findComment-3786502 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Being a Moderator does nothing to change your opinion on anything. Until you're using your Moderator powers, for Moderator work. What Bias are you talking about anyway? What about the Primer wasn't fair and accurate? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295548-new-grey-knights-strike-squad-tactica/page/2/#findComment-3786507 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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