New Grey Knights: Strike Squad Tactica

[Adeptus]

 

 

Instead they are, "deployed using precision teleportation strikes they lead the way for those that will come after, laying down homing beacons and securing remote or difficult to reach objectives."

Agreed, but I'd really prefer to see them actually teleporting onto objectives.

 

 

But they're supposed to do this before the battle even begins, which is why Infiltrate works.  Failing that, give them guaranteed 1st Turn teleports (whereas as the rest can either use the NSF Detachment for 3+ in the first turn) with a d6" scatter (Precision teleports).

 

Actually, I really like that.  Everybody else has to roll for it, but Strikes are guaranteed for a 1st Turn entry, with some degree of safety.

 

That's sort of what I was thinking. A First turn deepstrike, guaranteed, would mean even with their :cussty salvo Psycannons I'd be interested in taking them. Maybe some of my other units might make their 3+ reserve roll on the first turn as well, but you can guarantee those strikes will be first to the fray, as it were. Also, they'd get some serious utility out of their teleport homers.

[MayorDaley]

Just throwing this out there.

 

What if GKSS could purchase a servo-skull for their squad, and release it like a drone. Give the servo-skull a "special" 24" scout move marked from the Justicar, or whomever the carrier is.

 

Food for thought.

 

Cheers

 

*Wrong thread... ugh. Sorry, thought I clicked on Val's fix thread.*

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Guys we're moving into wishlisting about how Strikes could less terrible. Valerian already has another thread for that purpose. Please return to discussion of how Strikes actually work and how we can salvage them. 

 

/moderator voice

 

 

I'm actually thinking suicide incinerator combat squad is the way to go. It's not prohibitively expensive (115), no need for a pod, and the enemy is unlikely to waste precious Interceptor firepower on them. Land, BBQ, hope the enemy ignores you. (shrug). 

[BladeGaurd]

I'm actually thinking suicide incinerator combat squad is the way to go. It's not prohibitively expensive (115), no need for a pod, and the enemy is unlikely to waste precious Interceptor firepower on them. Land, BBQ, hope the enemy ignores you. (shrug). 

 

From when I used them, if it works it works big especially vs people that like castling in terrain and not buy fortification.  12 roasted guardsmen make a good bbq. when it fails it is a minor inconvenience sense most shoot other things, dreadknights or land raiders.

Give them a hammer or a few halberds and suddenly the enemy think they are death given form.... admittedly vs some armies they are with or with out those upgrades.

I am running a 6 man squad with a hammer and 2 halberds to drop and flame. Then those that survive will charge a vehicle and just proceed to be a pain in the neck.

[Ishagu]

Can you fire the Incinerator from a Rhino?

 

If so then squads of 10 in a Rhino with 2 Incinerators will be good.

[BladeGaurd]

Yes, it is from the hatch and it is assumed you are skilled enough not to hit the transport.

With combat squads able to be in the same transport you can flame 2 different targets I believe sense they are two "squads".

[Ishagu]

Yep, and there you have a lot of utility and mobility.

[Purifying Tempest]

Not sure if it was mentioned or not, but I am thinking of taking a 5 man strike squad with an incinerator in a razorback with lascannon+plasma gun. Gives you a mid-rear field unit to cherry pick at the enemy at just under 200 points. I think it'd be decent with things like dreadknights and draigostars in their field.

[Ishagu]

Razorbacks aren't cheap, but they are one of the very few ways to field long range, high strength, low ap in this codex.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Not sure if it was mentioned or not, but I am thinking of taking a 5 man strike squad with an incinerator in a razorback with lascannon+plasma gun. Gives you a mid-rear field unit to cherry pick at the enemy at just under 200 points. I think it'd be decent with things like dreadknights and draigostars in their field. 

 

That's an easy Turn 1 first blood, Turn 2 if they're busy removing your dangerous stuff from the field. You pay too high a price for that AP2 firepower. Also, given the lack of vehicles in the rest of your army, they can even use their dedicated anti-tank on it without really going to waste. 

 

Strikes have Deepstrike, you don't need transports. And if you're looking for reliable long-range AP2, Ravens offer that in a tougher and faster package, plus they're an Assault transport. 

[Rommel44]

 

Not sure if it was mentioned or not, but I am thinking of taking a 5 man strike squad with an incinerator in a razorback with lascannon+plasma gun. Gives you a mid-rear field unit to cherry pick at the enemy at just under 200 points. I think it'd be decent with things like dreadknights and draigostars in their field. 

 

That's an easy Turn 1 first blood, Turn 2 if they're busy removing your dangerous stuff from the field. You pay too high a price for that AP2 firepower. Also, given the lack of vehicles in the rest of your army, they can even use their dedicated anti-tank on it without really going to waste. 

 

Strikes have Deepstrike, you don't need transports. And if you're looking for reliable long-range AP2, Ravens offer that in a tougher and faster package, plus they're an Assault transport. 

 

 

Agreed. Strike Squads can Deep Strike in which is a lot better then putting them in a vehicle in my opinion, as the only unit who needs to use transports to move around quickly are the Purifiers. However, using a small 5x man unit with a Psycannon or even 10x with 2x Psycannons can make a solid Objective Holder unit, which is the only way I have seen them used at the moment.

[Purifying Tempest]

Maybe just me coming from sororitas, but I am not sure how much more value you guys are wanting out of the vehicles. Immolators are 60ish points, so I am looking at it through those lenses. Are transports overall just... dead?

 

I would think while risking first blood is definitely a thing, the flip side is there are usually going to be dreadknights and gates of infinity teleporting lord knows what awful stuff into the opponent's field turn 1. I only say this because if he takes turn 1 to ignore you piling into his backfield with your heaviest stuff just to pop a razorback (or really anything)... Then wouldn't that be a partial victory when your close combat isn't as threatened? They only have to weather 1 round of focus instead of 2. As a unit by itself it is expensive and risky of giving away a point, but maybe your opponent won't see it as such when prioritizing threats across the board that we present.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Agreed. Strike Squads can Deep Strike in which is a lot better then putting them in a vehicle in my opinion, as the only unit who needs to use transports to move around quickly are the Purifiers. However, using a small 5x man unit with a Psycannon or even 10x with 2x Psycannons can make a solid Objective Holder unit, which is the only way I have seen them used at the moment.

 

Pretty much. And we have Ravens for Purifiers. I think going combat squads is the way to go with Strikes. You can dilute enemy shooting better, and spread out your threat (ie multiple incinerators). Psycannon is I'm afraid a bad choice in PA in general, after some playtesting I will probably drop the psycannons off my Purifiers (Salvo is...not nice). 

Maybe just me coming from sororitas, but I am not sure how much more value you guys are wanting out of the vehicles. Immolators are 60ish points, so I am looking at it through those lenses. Are transports overall just... dead?

 

Low to medium AV is dead man. Its this thing called Hull Points. Mind you, the overall meta of 'spam S6/7' was already in full swing circa 5th edition, but it was balanced the fact you couldn't kill a vehicle with 3 glances. Even Marines don't bother with Rhinos, and they're 35 points (pods are better, well actually Bikers are better, but eh). 

I would think while risking first blood is definitely a thing, the flip side is there are usually going to be dreadknights and gates of infinity teleporting lord knows what awful stuff into the opponent's field turn 1. I only say this because if he takes turn 1 to ignore you piling into his backfield with your heaviest stuff just to pop a razorback (or really anything)... Then wouldn't that be a partial victory when your close combat isn't as threatened? They only have to weather 1 round of focus instead of 2. As a unit by itself it is expensive and risky of giving away a point, but maybe your opponent won't see it as such when prioritizing threats across the board that we present. 

 

Here's the rub though. The enemy are unlikely to point their S6/7 at a DK or Terminator Gate deathstar, as they know the best result they can hope for is 1-3 unsaved wounds (which still doesn't stop said problem unit moving up and doing its job). They'll point AP2 and S8+ their way, but not their mid-range anti-infantry/vehicle. 

 

In fact, by not putting down light AV, you're making that firepower less effective. S6/7 spam can still chew up our PA units, but its not as effective as taking out say a Razorback or Dreadnought. 3+ armour is still better than AV11/12 (of course AP3 and AP2 make a difference if they ignore cover, but I digress). And needless to say, the same points you'd invest in transports invested in say more Terminators is far superior (again though, AP2 makes a difference). 

[Ishagu]

Rhino is still the way.

 

News Flash - you don't have to start on the table!

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Rhino is still the way.

 

News Flash - you don't have to start on the table! 

 

And?

[Ishagu]

Everyone complains about Rhinos getting exploded easily, or Marines dying under volumes of fire.

 

In most competent 40k games armies are SEVERELY depleted by turn 3. That Rhino and those 10 Marines become EXTREMELY hard to budge late game.

[lt051]

Except that the less you have on the table, the less you deplete your opponent.... By that logic starting with nothing or just 1 unit would be the best option, but obviously it isn't

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Everyone complains about Rhinos getting exploded easily, or Marines dying under volumes of fire.

 

Because it happens. With infuriating regularity. We wouldn't be complaining about the insane firepower GW have granted some armies if it didn't affect us. 

 

In most competent 40k games armies are SEVERELY depleted by turn 3. That Rhino and those 10 Marines become EXTREMELY hard to budge late game. 

 

 

Perhaps you'd like to tell your opponents Long Fangs, Lootaz, Centurions, Obliterators, Wave Serpents, Riptides, Broadsides, etc that they aren't allowed to rip you apart in later turns. Strangely, I see little chance of that mattering. 

 

I've had games where I have caused horrendous casualties to the enemy, I'm rampaging through their lines, and they still blow up an entire squad of mine with impunity in a single Shooting phase. Such times have cost me games, and made me respect the damage output some of those units can achieve even without buffs or supporting fire. 

[Purifying Tempest]

I think what we've learned here is that in the grim future galaxy of warhammer 40k... everything dies.

 

I think sacrificial transports have a place for squishy troop models who are there to score points late in game. Who cares if you pop the rhino with mid-str weapons... Glancing it to death likely saved me 3 of the scoring models.

 

Sacrifices have to be made?

[FL5]

The Rhino getting popped is part of the plan.  It has to be; it's an inevitability.  If it manages to move up 12" + flat out 6" to get into cover, then it gets popped, I get to jump my troops out into cover to begin shooting as if they hadn't moved in my next turn.  It's a 35pt investment in trying to slingshot them forward.  Personally, I'd save the rhinos for min naked purifiers, trying to get them closer to nova range.  For strikes, I'd either teleport naked squads for free or try to use the first turn's movement to run psycannons into a shooting position.  

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I think what we've learned here is that in the grim future galaxy of warhammer 40k... everything dies.

I think sacrificial transports have a place for squishy troop models who are there to score points late in game. Who cares if you pop the rhino with mid-str weapons... Glancing it to death likely saved me 3 of the scoring models.

Sacrifices have to be made? 

 

Or, you could use the points saved not investing in easy-killed transports in more Knights. 

The Rhino getting popped is part of the plan.  It has to be; it's an inevitability.  If it manages to move up 12" + flat out 6" to get into cover, then it gets popped, I get to jump my troops out into cover to begin shooting as if they hadn't moved in my next turn.  It's a 35pt investment in trying to slingshot them forward.  Personally, I'd save the rhinos for min naked purifiers, trying to get them closer to nova range.  For strikes, I'd either teleport naked squads for free or try to use the first turn's movement to run psycannons into a shooting position.  

 

Deepstrike or Ravens (in the case of Purifiers) does that exact job already though, so why do you need the Rhino?

[Purifying Tempest]

Though that rhino costs roughly 2.5 guys in power armor... and it can take shots a lot better than if they just pointed that strength 6-7 stuff at the exposed unit. Really, at this point in the discussion, what's the difference? Shooting light vehicle guns at a rhino, or a squad not in a rhino because you didn't think they needed it.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Though that rhino costs roughly 2.5 guys in power armor... and it can take shots a lot better than if they just pointed that strength 6-7 stuff at the exposed unit. Really, at this point in the discussion, what's the difference? Shooting light vehicle guns at a rhino, or a squad not in a rhino because you didn't think they needed it. 

 

The difference is, I'm not giving up First Blood out of the gate (and believe me, 1VP can decide games, so it matters). 35pts adds up quick if you were previously giving every squad a Rhino. By the time you buy your third Rhino, you're getting close to the price of another Strike or Purifier combat squad. I'd rather more units than less, we already suffer from a low model count. 

[Ishagu]

Don't start the Rhino on the table if you fear first blood! Reserves aren't an issue.

It can move fast if it goes flat out and also further in the shooting phase so for 10 points more than a power fist you can transport a combat squadded unit of Strikes for multiple objective secured.

 

I sometimes keep a Rhino with a full compliment of Marines inside safe and snug behind cover until turn 4. At that point you have enough time to cover ground and for a turn or two of shooting at depleted units.

 

35 points is nothing in a regular game. It's better than an invul save for your squad, it's safety from templates, it's mobility. Would two extra marines keep your entire squad from being fried by a Heldrake?

I fear a lot of people aren't playing Rhinos correctly. Deployment and tactics are important - I've had Rhinos survive entire games to claim objectives against competitive Tau and Eldar lists.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Don't start the Rhino on the table if you fear first blood! Reserves aren't an issue.

 

Yeah they are. You've not only paid for the Rhino, but you're now waiting for it to come on and do something. Doubly wasteful. 

It can move fast if it goes flat out and also further in the shooting phase so for 10 points more than a power fist you can transport a combat squadded unit of Strikes for multiple objective secured.

 

Assuming it survives that long. Meanwhile, a Raven could do that same job 1000 times better, and its still a gunship that can handle other Flyers/FMC's, and you can charge out of it in Hover mode. 

I sometimes keep a Rhino with a full compliment of Marines inside safe and snug behind cover until turn 4. At that point you have enough time to cover ground and for a turn or two of shooting at depleted units.

 

So they've been sitting there for 3 whole game turns, doing nothing? Brilliant. 

35 points is nothing in a regular game. It's better than an invul save for your squad, it's safety from templates, it's mobility. Would two extra marines keep your entire squad from being fried by a Heldrake?

 

No, but neither does your Rhino, because its cracked open Turn 1 by even moderate attention from the enemy. I've played against CSM, they're usually building to deal with AV12 or even AV13 spam, AV11 doesn't phase them at all. 

I fear a lot of people aren't playing Rhinos correctly. Deployment and tactics are important - I've had Rhinos survive entire games to claim objectives against competitive Tau and Eldar lists. 

 

I agree, but its absurdly easy for either of those armies to ruin your strategy with a flanking move. I assume you were distracting them with bigger annoyances (DK's, Ravens, maybe a Land Raider).