Grey Knights Primer Mk2: Salvo Edition

[HiveFleetKelari]

I was annoyed when we lost Mindstrike missiles, but I actually quite like the new ones as well. I always used my Stormraven for anti-armour and anti-flyer, so having access to another 4 S8 Ap2 missiles might be good for that turn when you absolutely positively have to crack that enemy armour.

I just played a game with the new Missiles and I have to say that I'm a fan. I won't be upset about more long-range, high-strength, low-AP shooting for our army.

[Hidicul]

So I played a game today mixing rules, my dex hasn't arrived yet. Anything I didn't know if there was a change came from old dex as did the points for everything. I played 2000 points of purifiers with 2 NDK and a raven. One NDK took out Typhus with the Gatling psilencer! I'm living force on that gun. And the look on my opponents face when I tallied up my warp charges was funny. Can't wait till my dex comes in next week but so far doesn't seem like my purifier build is gonna change to much except losing the transports

[Reclusiarch Darius]

y one and only disagreement--and this should be no surprise to you, RD --is that I do think that our Anti-Tank game has been improved by this codex, and we're not as hard pressed as we were last edition. Although I'm frustrated as hell by the changes to both Dreadnoughts and Strikes, at the same time because Dreadnoughts are Elites now, and LR's and Razorbacks can be taken as Dedicated Transports, we can now see a LOT more anti-tank whether from Lascannons or Multi-Meltas.

Razorbacks were dedicated transports back in our old codex as well. The issue with them now is you can't take cheap Henchmen to unlock them anymore, you have to first invest in a PA squad (the cheapest of which is now 110 points bare bones).

I will agree with you about Ravens though. The new missiles are a definite improvement, you can reliably destroy light AV and definitely strip HP off AV12 with it. And of course, you have the nose multi-melta for AV13/14. However, the old Dakka Raven I fear is now much weaker. The loss of psybolts is quite a big hit, although it'll still kill chaff and maim Marine units.

But how important is it for the GM himself to be providing the kills. Can't he just let the Hammer toting Terminators do the damage when he runs into something with a 2+ save, and then he returns the favour when the unit encounters anything else?

Pretty important, considering 'Grand Strategy' is gone now. Granted, he does do psychic support, but then so does a Libby much cheaper (and with more powers and WC too). I'd prefer my 200pt combat HQ (who will also likely be your Warlord too) to actually pull his weight. No one takes Chapter Masters for their high Leadership value, its because with the right kit they rip enemy squads, vehicles and MC's apart and can take a lot of damage.

I guess what I'm really asking is, now that the Sword on my GM is useless, should I swap it to Soul Glaive or a Hammer, lol!

If you don't fight 2+ saves all that often (or as you alluded to, you fight squads more than characters in TDA), the Soul Glaive is clearly superior (you re-roll your Force attempt, and its ungodly powerful when Force is active). The hammer is the more safe option, although Unwieldly can get you killed potentially. Both are valid.

[jeffersonian000]

Draigo is fine in the LoW slot, because the best Superheavy for Grey Knights are Knight Errants, which take up their own formation slots. Being able to take 2 HQs and Draigo is huge, especially if Draigo is Gating a units of Purifiers with attached Librarian and Crowe (OMG, I just advocated from including Crowe! The Shame, The Shame!)

 

SJ

[Brovius]

Draigo is fine in the LoW slot, because the best Superheavy for Grey Knights are Knight Errants, which take up their own formation slots. Being able to take 2 HQs and Draigo is huge, especially if Draigo is Gating a units of Purifiers with attached Librarian and Crowe (OMG, I just advocated from including Crowe! The Shame, The Shame!)

 

SJ

Imperial Knights aren't superheavies though, they just pick and choose the benefits of superheavies and normal vehicles (like 12" move, can't suffer weapon destroyed, immobilised, stunned or shaken results) while avoiding the drawbacks (like giving away Victory Points for every 3HP they lose). Grumble grumble Imperial Knights

 

Needless to say, I did not feel bad in the slightest when I dropped a Thunderhawk in a 3k point game against our local Iron Hands player who likes to spam Knights. He had 4 of them :/

[skarn]

I played 3 games today, all 1500 points;

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295781-my-experiences-with-the-new-gk-codex-so-far/

[jeffersonian000]

 

 

Draigo is fine in the LoW slot, because the best Superheavy for Grey Knights are Knight Errants, which take up their own formation slots. Being able to take 2 HQs and Draigo is huge, especially if Draigo is Gating a units of Purifiers with attached Librarian and Crowe (OMG, I just advocated from including Crowe! The Shame, The Shame!)

 

SJ

Imperial Knights aren't superheavies though, they just pick and choose the benefits of superheavies and normal vehicles (like 12" move, can't suffer weapon destroyed, immobilised, stunned or shaken results) while avoiding the drawbacks (like giving away Victory Points for every 3HP they lose). Grumble grumble Imperial Knights

 

Needless to say, I did not feel bad in the slightest when I dropped a Thunderhawk in a 3k point game against our local Iron Hands player who likes to spam Knights. He had 4 of them :/

Strawman. A Thunderhawk Gunship is the best Superheavy in the game, no denying, but at 3k you can have more than one CAD, unlocking more than one LoW, and Imperial Knights are indeed Superheavies as they are low-end Superheavy Walkers that do not take up LoW slots.

 

SJ

[Valerian]

I played 3 games today, all 1500 points. 

 

I took an divination inquisitor warlord & henchmen in a valkyrie (including a psyker and 3 skulls).

 

Stern

5 Pallies (apothecary, brotherhood banner, 2 psycannons, 4 hammers)

5 Strikes (psycannon)

2 x 5 Strikes (hammer & incinerator)

Draigo

 

I think you mean 2x 5 Interceptors, based on your battle report (vice more Strikes).  Did you use the Nemesis Strike Force Detachment, then?

[skarn]

haha, yeah 2 interceptor squads and using the new formation (which i loved).

I'm going to try this list out against cent star ultras with tigirus and knight allies next weekend. 

that is going to be interesting...

[Landrick]

keep us updated!!

[Brovius]

 

 

Draigo is fine in the LoW slot, because the best Superheavy for Grey Knights are Knight Errants, which take up their own formation slots. Being able to take 2 HQs and Draigo is huge, especially if Draigo is Gating a units of Purifiers with attached Librarian and Crowe (OMG, I just advocated from including Crowe! The Shame, The Shame!)

 

SJ

Imperial Knights aren't superheavies though, they just pick and choose the benefits of superheavies and normal vehicles (like 12" move, can't suffer weapon destroyed, immobilised, stunned or shaken results) while avoiding the drawbacks (like giving away Victory Points for every 3HP they lose). Grumble grumble Imperial Knights

 

Needless to say, I did not feel bad in the slightest when I dropped a Thunderhawk in a 3k point game against our local Iron Hands player who likes to spam Knights. He had 4 of them :/

Strawman. A Thunderhawk Gunship is the best Superheavy in the game, no denying, but at 3k you can have more than one CAD, unlocking more than one LoW, and Imperial Knights are indeed Superheavies as they are low-end Superheavy Walkers that do not take up LoW slots.

 

SJ

 

For low-end superheavies, they're as good as (if not debatably better) than a Stompa for half the cost.

Functionally, they're not really normal vehicles or superheavies because they pick and choose the rules they want to benefit from between the two unit categories. They look like a superheavy, but because they aren't a LoW I get no benefit to chipping HP off of an AV13 monstrosity with a directional invuln. 

 

If you can get a free VP from taking 3 wounds off of Draigo, Logan or Ghaz, why can't I get one for taking 3HP off of an Imperial Knight? Because GW want to sell as many Knights as possible, of course :/

[calvin the wraithlord]

I played a game today and killed a knight in combat with my hammer wielding GM, was rather chuffed

[Sete]

I see a lot of negativity on this new "FAQ" not the best thing to attract new players to the army. Just an opinion of someone who is thinking of getting some GK.
And ei at least your lore is basically the same and you didn't get rolled into the main codex! Could be better but it could have been a lot worse!

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I see a lot of negativity on this new "FAQ" not the best thing to attract new players to the army. Just an opinion of someone who is thinking of getting some GK.

And ei at least your lore is basically the same and you didn't get rolled into the main codex! Could be better but it could have been a lot worse!

 

I see no point suger-coating what happened to us. GW already do a great job lying to their customer base about how the changes affect things. The point of the Primer is to avoid the age old problem of 40k, when people buy stuff on GW's authority, then discover its garbage in actual games. This is otherwise known as the 'Pyrovore' effect. 

 

Anyway, my review isn't entirely negative. I'm trying to highlight the fact that a lot of our old staples have been busted with the new 'dex, and we need to get creative if we're actually gonna play pure armies of Knights. We're not quite in the hell that Sisters languish in (thank Throne), but we're definitely stronger as an Ally or with Allies to get around our deficiencies (namely dealing with AV, our low model count and inability to attrition, and our limited unit selection). 

[Bionicman]

I see a lot of negativity on this new "FAQ" not the best thing to attract new players to the army. Just an opinion of someone who is thinking of getting some GK.

And ei at least your lore is basically the same and you didn't get rolled into the main codex! Could be better but it could have been a lot worse!

 

Boards contain opinions, it ain't science or something. Maybe the OP is a little bit of a rant but as a new player I would want to know

- if the army is capable of what I am planning to do with it or wether it fits my playstyle

- which units I should buy and which are trash.

 

Imagine a new player starting GK with the new codex and getting disappointed very quickly because things don't work out as they supposed to be. That would drive him away from the hobby much quicker than if he hasn't started the game/army in the first place. So I'd go with honest opinions.

 

At least we are customers. And in this age we have the power to rate products und publish our opinions. And this product is mostly trash.

[Sete]

Mate I play Templars. Dont come talking to me about being disapointed.

It was just an opinion. I understand you are felling underwhelmed with the changes but again at least you are not a chapter tactic.

The information there is good its just the way it is described is not the best.

No harm meant. I can understand the felling.

[Gentlemanloser]

I'm starting to feel we'd be better off having the Templar treatment.

 

A Grey Knight Chapter Tactic, and access to all the SM goodies.  GK Centurion.  Tanks.  Storm Shields.  AV13 Dreads.  Melta/Plasma/Grav.  Drop Pods.

 

I'd trade Salvo Pyscannons and the new Psilencers for those *in a heartbeat*.  And now the Nemesis Weapons have been toned down to blandness...

 

We'd get the DreadKnight as our new 'chapter' unit.

 

All the good stuff, without needing to push detachments, allies and Unbound to the limit.

[Captain Coolpants]

Grey knights with plasma and melta guns would be crazy scary haha

[Sete]

Don't say that dude! What you guys have In the codex is what I use. Stormravens LRC termies and 10 man squads.

Its a pity they are all witches ;).

But after my holiday GK. If I resist the tempation of buying more templars.

[Bionicman]

Ah well we are getting away from the primer. Maybe a mod or the inquisition can split this topic?

 

As former DA player I don't understand why the haven't rolled in the DA codex. I can understand Blood Angels having a seperate codex, I would understand BT but DA...seriously it is terminator & bikes & awesome looks. Guess the special sprues are a reason.

[Gentlemanloser]

BT have special sprues.

(Used to use them to make PAGK back in the day)

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I'm starting to feel we'd be better off having the Templar treatment.

 

A Grey Knight Chapter Tactic, and access to all the SM goodies.  GK Centurion.  Tanks.  Storm Shields.  AV13 Dreads.  Melta/Plasma/Grav.  Drop Pods.

 

I'd trade Salvo Pyscannons and the new Psilencers for those *in a heartbeat*.  And now the Nemesis Weapons have been toned down to blandness...

 

We'd get the DreadKnight as our new 'chapter' unit.

 

All the good stuff, without needing to push detachments, allies and Unbound to the limit.

 

We're moving firmly into the realm of wishlisting now (although why you'd wish the fate of the Templars on us is beyond me). If we were reduced to a Chapter Tactic I would stop playing Knights entirely. 

 

I'll hide the off-topic posts. May we return to the codex we do have please?

[Sete]

I would rather use strike squads as troops. Terminators tend to attract lot of unwanted ap2 attention and it is a waste to use them to cap objectives.

Strike squads with 2 incinerators 2 ranged attacks and more 2 on charge. With hammerhand and ap3 force/power swords. Better than my crusader squad. Also with the chance of a ++6.

Ill post my 1k list after work to get some opinions from veteran players.

Ofc I dont know your 5th edition codex so I really cant compare.(for an assault squad)

[Hidicul]

It all depends on your meta. I've been running a purifier list since 5th. in 5th i just left Crowe in my deployment zone. 6th made me rework how I played the list due to slay the warlord. Crowe still stayed in my deployment zone, but was always hidden behind some kind of terrain. When they started chaseing him down it was ring around the rosies as Crowe ran around said terrain. very frustating to my opponents. In my meta Terms are worthless as we have an IG player that spams tanks so everyone brings alot of AT weapons to the table. I'm prbably going to stick with my purifiers list and maybe add in a small strike force detachment with strikes and put my 2 NDKs in it.

[Hidicul]

So my copy of the new dex finally came in, and I noticed something you didnt mention that completly changes my army; there is now no way to take Purifiers as a troops choice.  We also lost Orbital Strike completly which isnt that big of a deal but it was nice for attempted AT.