Grey knight fire support?

[Ushtarador]

 

Triple Land Raider lists are very well playable, and they are very solid and hard to deal with (bar some lists that hardcounter them, e.g. necrons). Don't underestimate their staying power in todays meta! 

 

The changes to the damage table in 7th do benefit high AV, but melta still pings down your HP as do other heavy anti-tank weapons (S10 railgun, MC's in close-combat, meltabombs etc). I mean sure, you roll over second-string armies like Orks with impunity, but at a tournament you'll get Fire Dragon'd or whatever early on and lost huge chunks of your army in a few models.

 

 

From personal experience they actually worked very well in tournaments (with the aforementioned exception of Necrons, damn those storm crypteks). Nobody plays enough anti-AV14 weaponry anymore, barring lucky shots the raiders are very survivable. Even wraith knights need to be lucky to open raiders before you deal with them (if your list is well written).

But they will not carry the game, which is the problem now. They are very useful because they will sit around, grab objectives and don't get killed, but they have no firepower to kill stuff in return. Death cult assassins provided very cheap and very strong assault power and could handle almost every unit in the game cost-effectively. But now it doesn't work anymore (the inquisition DCA are crap because of the swords), I can see the benefit of one land raider with purifiers to get up close and light things up with the nova power, but I'm not a huge fan, again too expensive for too little return. Also, purifiers are not that good in close combat, not enough strength, not enough attacks and no AP2.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

From personal experience they actually worked very well in tournaments (with the aforementioned exception of Necrons, damn those storm crypteks). Nobody plays enough anti-AV14 weaponry anymore, barring lucky shots the raiders are very survivable. Even wraith knights need to be lucky to open raiders before you deal with them (if your list is well written).

 

What, all the Marine players forgot to take Attack Bikes, or Sternguard combi-spam, or Landspeeders? And the IG players all left their melta-Vets at home? Tournaments do differ, but I find it odd you didn't see more anti-high AV. AV13 wall is a valid build for both BA and Necrons, and Russes/Hammerheads/Predators all see play etc. 

 I can see the benefit of one land raider with purifiers to get up close and light things up with the nova power, but I'm not a huge fan, again too expensive for too little return. Also, purifiers are not that good in close combat, not enough strength, not enough attacks and no AP2.

 

That whole idea works 1000 times better with a Raven. Also, Purifiers reliably stomp anything not in 2+ armour if they charge (hell, I've had them slaughter enemy melee specialists after getting charged). Especially with the new reduced price falchions. DCA trump because of their absurd I6, but as you point out the changes to their power weapon options limit what they can fight, and they're no longer able to be taken as mandatory Troops. 

[Ushtarador]

 

From personal experience they actually worked very well in tournaments (with the aforementioned exception of Necrons, damn those storm crypteks). Nobody plays enough anti-AV14 weaponry anymore, barring lucky shots the raiders are very survivable. Even wraith knights need to be lucky to open raiders before you deal with them (if your list is well written).

 

What, all the Marine players forgot to take Attack Bikes, or Sternguard combi-spam, or Landspeeders? And the IG players all left their melta-Vets at home? Tournaments do differ, but I find it odd you didn't see more anti-high AV. AV13 wall is a valid build for both BA and Necrons, and Russes/Hammerheads/Predators all see play etc. 

 

 

Attack Bikes and landspeeders can easily be killed before they're in range (assuming you have a good list), combimelta spam is rare (and another hardcounter, but that's life). The big advantage is that Necrons, Tau and Eldar all rely on S7 spam to finish off AV13 vehicles :) Space Marines mostly played centurion star which is also a big problem, but with 2 shunting dreadknights accompanying the raiders they usually had bigger problems.

 

I also much prefer the purifiers in the raven, a lot more flexibility. My biggest quarrel with purifiers is that they don't kill wraithknights, riptides and 2+ save units, which the DCA could all do quite well (as well as mop up hordes with their ridiculous 4 attacks on the charge), but they are still very good against a lot of targets :)

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Attack Bikes and landspeeders can easily be killed before they're in range (assuming you have a good list), combimelta spam is rare (and another hardcounter, but that's life). The big advantage is that Necrons, Tau and Eldar all rely on S7 spam to finish off AV13 vehicles Space Marines mostly played centurion star which is also a big problem, but with 2 shunting dreadknights accompanying the raiders they usually had bigger problems.

But they're fast, which is the issue. They can turbo up a flank, they draw resources at minimal cost (usually 50-60 points for each one), and even half the cost of a Land Raider invested in melta will reduce it to scrap. Also, I find hard to believe that you never fight Fire Dragons.

I also much prefer the purifiers in the raven, a lot more flexibility. My biggest quarrel with purifiers is that they don't kill wraithknights, riptides and 2+ save units, which the DCA could all do quite well (as well as mop up hordes with their ridiculous 4 attacks on the charge), but they are still very good against a lot of targets

Take 2 hammers. I'm surprised you're not doing so already, they're a melee unit.

[BladeGaurd]

 

From personal experience they actually worked very well in tournaments (with the aforementioned exception of Necrons, damn those storm crypteks). Nobody plays enough anti-AV14 weaponry anymore, barring lucky shots the raiders are very survivable. Even wraith knights need to be lucky to open raiders before you deal with them (if your list is well written).

 

What, all the Marine players forgot to take Attack Bikes, or Sternguard combi-spam, or Landspeeders? And the IG players all left their melta-Vets at home? Tournaments do differ, but I find it odd you didn't see more anti-high AV. AV13 wall is a valid build for both BA and Necrons, and Russes/Hammerheads/Predators all see play etc. 

 

Melta guns range is not enough to deter the oncoming death of multi raider armor spear tip.

I often find that by the time 1 is destroyed its job has been accomplished, but I use mine as a delivery system more then fire support. I go 18 inches in the first turn, including the flat out move, and then if it is destroyed I hop out 3 and I have 2d6 to charge into my enemies. If it is not destroyed they go another 6 and I hope out 6 and charge 2d6 with almost no where for you to hide. any raider that lives past turn 2 then start working as fire support, often one will have 1-2 hp left and the other 2-3. Now strangeness do happened, first 2 shot of turn 2 killed my raiders once and it was an uphill battle but that why the game is fun.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I just feel its too much of a risk. Also, Ravens have better defenses (Skyfire, 4+ jink), can fly over chaff or other delaying tactics, and they have better firepower. 

[boreas]

I've got to try my LR again, but every single time I've played my Raven, it's been blown out of the sky the turn it came in (with passengers, of course). Way too much AA in my area :)

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I've got to try my LR again, but every single time I've played my Raven, it's been blown out of the sky the turn it came in (with passengers, of course). Way too much AA in my area

Even with Jink? That sucks man, sounds like your meta is pretty skewed against Flyers. Just take another Dreadknight instead then.